Osama Dead. Obama Confirms.

[Jigs]

People forget one thing: the US was actively looking for bin Laden; Pakistan was not. All he had to do was bribe any overly-inquisitive local officials. It's unfair to blame Pakistan for failing to locate him since nobody in Pakistan was looking for him or had any reason to suspect he might be around.

You don't have to be looking for OBL to just look. When a large compound goes up around a military area people tend to look and if he paid off the right people then that would mean elements in Pakistani establishment are compromised. Again not good. To say Pakistan will take no flak for any of this is quite wishful aswell.

Also a interesting read

WASHINGTON: US officials were concerned that Pakistan could jeopardize the Osama bin Laden operation and “might alert the targets,” CIA Director Leon Panetta said on Tuesday.

In an interview with Time magazine, Panetta said his aides had 60 to 80 percent confidence that bin Laden was in the compound.

The CIA ruled out working with Pakistan on the raid because “it was decided that any effort to work with the Pakistanis could jeopardize the mission: They might alert the targets,” Panetta said.

US had concerns Pakistan might jeopardize bin Laden operation – The Express Tribune

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So you are warning me to not disagree??

I am warning you not to troll. If you disagree with an argument offer a logical rebuttal instead of a nonsensical 'hilarious, its denial' one liner.

Taking 1 line of my post independently without the following lines that justify the 1st.

Your subsequent lines did not address my arguments either.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

infact one of the tip off the CIA was regarding this, that the family that registered did not reside there, but it was used as a residance....

Ever heard of 'renting' ....

OMG, the nonsense is just astounding.

First we have prejudice against people who build houses larger than their neighbors, and now prejudice against people who rent their homes.

 

[Developereo]

It isn't like the border is well guarded since terrorists can operate on both sides. Couple terrain hugging helicopters crossing over is quite viable.

I will concede that superior technology allowed the US helis to come in undetected. But the part about cordoning off the area and shutting off the power has to be done by locals. That indicates Pakistanis cooperation.

When the one helicopter was destroyed, another one was dispatched ?- dispatched from where? If another was not dispatched, did some members of SEAL team six leave by road

Brian Williams, an American NBC media executive who flew with Navy SEALs in Iraq commented on that. Apparently, it is standard procedure for them to have more aircraft than are needed. The downed heli was abandoned and destroyed by missile from the remaining helis that transported the whole team out.

 

[SMC]

Again, what was so unique about the house (in the context of how houses in Pakistan are and how they're run) to think that OBL might have been living there?

You'll find large houses like these with high walls and barbed wires commonly in Pakistan. I have seen many areas myself where a house was several times bigger than neighbouring housing. 4-6 times bigger. And trash burning? Please, even we used to burn trash very often. That's the least of the suspicious things.

This isn't a movie where you have 6th senses and you can tell easily who is living where. Especially with women and children living, it would have raised little eyebrows.

 

[Developereo]

You don't have to be looking for OBL to just look. When a large compound goes up around a military area people tend to look and if he paid off the right people then that would mean elements in Pakistani establishment are compromised. Again not good. To say Pakistan will take no flak for any of this is quite wishful aswell.

No, I agree that there was complicity. In fact, the strongest argument for complicity is that he chose to hide in a military garrison town, instead of a remote village or in Karachi itself. It's much easier to hide in these two extremes.

 

[Mike2011]

What was the reason USA giving AID to pakistan. Any one from pakistan can please explain?

 

[SMC]

What was the reason USA giving AID to pakistan. Any one from pakistan can please explain?

That's exactly the funny part and here's where the contradiction comes.

Some say that Pakistan is a weak, failed state and a US puppet.

Yet same people say that Pakistan gives US up the arse while US pays Pakistan to do it.

Another contradiction is that if US is supporting Pakistan even after knowing that Pakistan supports terrorists, then US itself becomes a terrorist state.

 

[Jigs]

No, I agree that there was complicity. In fact, the strongest argument for complicity is that he chose to hide in a military garrison town, instead of a remote village or in Karachi itself. It's much easier to hide in these two extremes.

What do you think the Pakistani establishment is doing right now ? Do you think a internal investigation is currently in place ?

 

[toxic_pus]

The town we are talking of is not your run-of-the-mill town, it is Abbottabad, practically a garrison town that houses the prestigious PMA. Several retired PA generals and also serving ones reside there. In other words, it is a high security area, where such a huge house with such high walls, barbwire on the top, with no telephone connection, where trash is burnt inside the compound and is not taken out, should make the security agencies curious. No, it doesn't imply presence of OBL, but these are more than enough signs to keep the Pak spooks interested in such a house in such a high security zone. Curiosity should have led to a probe and the probe to the final discovery of the true resident of the house.

Then again you have to be looking for signs to see those signs. If you are not looking then you would miss a speeding double-decker bus comming at you. The 'establishment' realizes this and that's why they are now feigning incompetence and speaking of 'possible human error'. What that establishes is that, detection of the identity of the original resident, which incidentally happens to be OBL, on the basis of such tale tell signs, was well withing the realm of possibility if due diligence was exercised. This, the excuse of incompetence, is, however, a convenient excuse. The alternative - that they were told from higher up to be not too nosy about that house - is deadlier.

Anybody who is arguing that detection was impossible is making his own kool-aide and drinking it too. The onus, is now entirely on Pakistan. That old legal adage is now applicable in reverse: Pakistan is guilty until proven innocent.

 

[SMC]

I should note that Pakistan says it raided the compound few years ago and nothing was found, and removed it from its watch list.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

A year ago i read an open ed in NYTimes , Acc to that, America has lost this war , the best way out for the US is to find a guy like OBL,Kill Him Declare Victory and Pull out.
Now if anyone can think that this whole stuff happened without the knowladge of ISI orr ISI wasnt aware of it then they are soley mistaken and carried away with the usuall press twisting. ISI provided the major part of the Intell and the whole action was decided in the Panetta - Pasha Meeting in DC week ago.
Pakistan provided for which it was brokered from Day1 that if things went Bad then it will be Pakistan which could provide a safe,Respectfull way out with a face saving Exit.Pakistani generals donot want ot spill out the truth , as it would seriously undermine troops withdrawl prepartions made by the Obama Admin.The bigger bargain they get is , this war will finally come to an end with America Achieving the declared Objective of Eliminating Alqaida and Pakistan getting its interests recognised in Afghanistan. Now the US will make Peace with the Talibans and Pull out in a year or so.

It was a mutually agreed upon and highly coordinated action btw Pakistani Military and USA and a part of a broader plan to enable a super power to have a Respectful Exit with limited Face Saving from a decade of defeated War as the US clearly failed to achieve the hidden strategic objectives of this War. The US got nothing out of it for ten years of continuous bloodbath . The Economy was in a mess. There were rifts among Nato allies and plus there were risks to escalate this war into Pakistan just like the Nixon escalated the Vietnam War into Cambodia with the label of war against Evil Commies. The only difference between Cambodia and Pakistan was that Cambodia neither had such a profetional military and nor they were a Second Largest Muslim country built in the name of ISLAM plus,armed with nukes and located at the most pivotal point in the whole planet.The Stakes of Escalating this War into Pakistan were too, too much high.Today American public might rejoice but later down the road the critics of this war and the historians would definitely label it a great defeat of a Super Power. Afghanistan lived up to its reputation of becoming the graveyard of superpowers. This One was much much luckier from the previous ones as it was aligned to a country called Pakistan which had a sea route and a direct border link with Afghanistan.

 

[toxic_pus]

^^ There is a discrepancy there too. They said, so far as I can remember, they had raided it in 2003. The house itself came up in 2005.

EDIT: Directed at SMC

 

[Developereo]

What do you think the Pakistani establishment is doing right now ? Do you think a internal investigation is currently in place ?

Undoubtedly. However, as much as people make a big deal of the security arrangements of the compound, the simple fact that it was so easy to breach absolves the Pakistani leadership, both civilian and military. If the army/ISI or the government really wanted to protect bin Laden, they would have put him up in a much more secure location.

The only thing we can take from this is that there are some low/mid-level individuals in the army/ISI who are sympathetic to OBL. The top brass needs to clean out the rot.

 

[SMC]

^^ There is a discrepancy there too. They said, so far as I can remember, they had raided it in 2003. The house itself came up in 2005.

EDIT: Directed at SMC

On BBC it said that it was raided in 2005 or 2006, can't remember which. So there's no discrepancy.