Opinion: Musharraf could've been a caliph but chose to be a jackal.

[araz]

And yet, we have lines like this from the OP:



That is some pretty potent national hashish with a side of LSD, it seems to me. That is the scary part, getting worse by the day.

They forget what our Hadi SAW taught us. The hadeeth goes " put your faith in Allah but tie your camel first". What it means for those who do not understand the analogy is make all your preparations and then put your faith in Allah. Asking a wine drinking womanizing western oriented man to put his faith in Allah is surreal( as you say a good dose of hashish with a side dose of LSD).
A ravaged Pakistan dependent to its last penny on other nations looking for support not forthcoming from any where and its major brunt of trade dependent on the US, defying the US would have been sweet. In the aftermath of 9/11 when he met with all the ulema NO ONE advised him to put his faith in Allah and show the middle finger to the US.
HOWEVER, the only thing that could have been done better would have been to negotiate harder for more concessions. The US was time barred for its offensive and a combination of delay and counter arguments MIGHT HAVE resulted in a better financial package for Pakistan. EVEN this remains a premise as I have no clue on what was demanded and what was agreed and what was thrown out of the window.
A

 

[litman]

They forget what our Hadi SAW taught us. The hadeeth goes " put your faith in Allah but tie your camel first". What it keans for those who do not understand the analogy is make all your preparations and then put your faith in Allah. Asking a wine drinking womanizing western oriented man to put his faith in Allah is surreal( as you say a good dose of hashish with a side dose of LSD).
Aravaged Pakistan dependent to its last penny on other nations looking for support not forthcoming from any where and its major brunt of trade dependent on the US would have been sweet. In the aftermath of 9/11 when he met with all the ulema NO ONE advised him tl put his faith in Allah and show the middle finger to the US.
HOWEVER, the only thing that could have been done better would have been to negotiate harder for more concessions. The US was time barred for its offensive and a combination of delay and counterarguments MIGHT HAVE resulted in a better financial package for Pakistan. EVEN this rema9ns a premise as I have no clue on what was demanded and what was agreed and what was thrown out of the window.
A

I think Dr Israr Ahmed disagreed with his policies openly in a conference on this issue and perhaps that's why Dr Israr had to face some tough time in Pakistan. Banned in Pakistan and he had to go to peace tv for his talks.
If we look at the history of muslims we will find that vast majority of the scholars used to give fatwas as per the wishes of the king. Very few spoke against the rulers. Those who spoke against the rulers were tortured or lured with money by the ruling kings/ caliphs of their time. Almost all of the 4 imams of ehle sunnah had to face extreme torture from the rulers of their time but they stood their ground. In our time Dr Zakir has this credit for standing against the oppression. He made "hijrah" and rejected the material benefits he was offered by the BJP government to change his views in favor of the Indian government but he refused to bend. But such people are extremely rare breed. Quaid e azam was one such example among the leaders.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The results speak for themselves.

Taliban won.

Did they fought conventional war with US ànd see their country now lol

Does the Quran require you to fight a conventional war? And their country is actually better of now then it was in 2001. Kabul actually looks more developed and cleaner then Karachi.

Finally victory does not come cheap. Would you sell your a*ss to avoid be beaten up? I suppose you would.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I think Dr Israr Ahmed disagreed with his policies openly in a conference on this issue and perhaps that's why Dr Israr had to face some tough time in Pakistan. Banned in Pakistan and he had to go to peace tv for his talks.
If we look at the history of muslims we will find that vast majority of the scholars used to give fatwas as per the wishes of the king. Very few spoke against the rulers. Those who spoke against the rulers were tortured or lured with money by the ruling kings/ caliphs of their time. Almost all of the 4 imams of ehle sunnah had to face extreme torture from the rulers of their time but they stood their ground. In our time Dr Zakir has this credit for standing against the oppression. He made "hijrah" and rejected the material benefits he was offered by the BJP government to change his views in favor of the Indian government but he refused to bend. But such people are extremely rare breed. Quaid e azam was one such example among the leaders.

dr israr talked shit and was condemned for his crap hence he found common ground with another moron who praises Yazid and justifies Alqaeda and Daesh.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

which belongs to that malhoon zakir and is a forum for all them western pedo converts like green, estes, philips, that peace tv? owned by a pajeet who loves an historic mass murderer?
@Irfan Baloch help me please before I go all loony tunes

go ahead but please remain respectful to fellow members. but you can make a new one into hypocrite personalities

 

[Whitefalcon90]

when i read the comments of doorstar i decided to put him on ignore list but when i saw the comment of a so called senior moderator i decided to get rid of this stupid ****PDF . if this is the state of the ****mods then what can you expect from others .
(swearing removed by moderator)

Doorstar is a hypocrite liberal who hates himself.

So because prostitution you want Pakistan to take on america/nato and india?.........

Taking on India is the best plan to get the Pakistan economy and industries rolling. Imagine after conquering India, Pakistan would become superpower.

All that Muslim man power united would be a force to reckon with.

 

[Foinikas]

And WMDs were in Iraq and Anna Nicole married for love............................. A dialogue from movie shooter.

And please dig deeper into the history of these terrorist organizations. You will come to know about their masters and whom they serve. Wasn't expecting such a naive statement from a mod.

Every individual / group always tend to find an excuse for their misdeeds and to satisfy their conscience and they do so successfully in most of the cases. Some "lucky ones" admit their mistakes and they are lucky because admitting ones flaws, mistakes , sins is the first step towards repentance ( tobah)

This "the masters they serve" thing has been used so much,it's ridiculous. The problem is that a lot of muslims won't admit there are problems with radicalisation in their societies and prefer to blame everything on conspiracy theories and Jews. It's always some "foreign agenda" behind barbaric extremist groups for these people. They go soft on wahabbism and salafism because they think "oh hey,they are muslims,they are ok people,just a bit misguided". They go soft on hardcore movements like the Taliban with the idea of "hey they are just pious and very conservative muslims,it's ok".
Then when these groups kill their own people or other muslims in general,they go like "well they really are zionists,not muslims,yes they are behind it"

 

[Whitefalcon90]

This "the masters they serve" thing has been used so much,it's ridiculous. The problem is that a lot of muslims won't admit there are problems with radicalisation in their societies and prefer to blame everything on conspiracy theories and Jews. It's always some "foreign agenda" behind barbaric extremist groups for these people. They go soft on wahabbism and salafism because they think "oh hey,they are muslims,they are ok people,just a bit misguided". They go soft on hardcore movements like the Taliban with the idea of "hey they are just pious and very conservative muslims,it's ok".
Then when these groups kill their own people or other muslims in general,they go like "well they really are zionists,not muslims,yes they are behind it"

Are you comparing taliban to west/India backed terrorists.
Taliban aren't terrorists.

There is no radical Islam only paid merchants from the israel/west/India who terrorized and killed mostly Muslims.
Musharraf=Giddar

 

[Foinikas]

when i read the comments of doorstar i decided to put him on ignore list but when i saw the comment of a so called senior moderator i decided to get rid of this stupid **** PDF . if this is the state of the ***mods then what can you expect from others .
(swearing edited)

That moderator is the voice of logic here. His posts are one of the reasons I finally decided to make a profile on this group and talk. Because when fanboys and idiots would post and pat each other on the back for boasting and ridiculous posts,this guy would reply with logic,calmness and real arguements.

Taking on India is the best plan to get the Pakistan economy and industries rolling. Imagine after conquering India, Pakistan would become superpower.

All that Muslim man power united would be a force to reckon with.

Are you sure? What about all the problems that you would inherit? Rebuilding the infastracture,keeping the millions of Indian Muslims happy,trying to avoid guerilla warfare from Indians and muslims still loyal to India?
India is massive. How much would you take? How much can you maintain? What resources would the parts that you would capture have?

 

[El Sidd]

GoP refuses to issue warrants for his safe return from a middle eastern country holding him hostage.

moderator is the voice of logic here

moderators are to moderate content not moderate logic of others.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

GoP refuses to issue warrants for his safe return from a middle eastern country holding him hostage.

moderators are to moderate content not moderate logic of others.

moderators do have an opinion but only as a poster.
we do moderate content and request people to be respectful to the forum, its staff and fellow members.
beyond religious figures no one else is beyond civilized criticism and condemnation (if warranted).

topic is about General Musharraf, those who have served under him know that he was anything but a coward. yes he made some calls which seem bad (in hindsight) but that's what makes him a normal human not a saint class Pakistani politician who gets unqualified and absolute support from cut throat fanatic supporters.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

how you gonna do that? pray tell!

can you logically and truthfully counter what Br. Irfan Baloch said? try and we got videos of your ulema to counter you with.

I am not interested in a personal argument here. so please don't drag me into it. the quoted member has already used derogatory words for entire PDF and its team which is unacceptable and unfortunately I had to censor that.

I have followed Dr Israr for very long time. my criticism of him (in my post) was his unrepentant insult for which he was condemned by Muslims. I am not aware of his criticism/ opposition of Gen Musharraf because that's hardly a new, after all it was an opinion about current ruler. Gen Musharraf was criticized by a majority of Muslim Clergy and if that's the reason for him to join a pro fasadi TV channel then it was his choice to find a like minded personality like Zakir Nayak whose controversial commentary is beyond the scope of this thread.

 

[Foinikas]

oderators are to moderate content not moderate logic of others.

By the way,I was talking about @LeGenD not @Irfan Baloch
Sorry just wanted to make that clear!

 

[BATMAN]

The problem is that a lot of muslims won't admit there are problems with radicalisation in their societies

I see this radicalization all around in my country and i also see how it is done and widely practiced, but i also strongly believe that althoug it is wide spread today it's engineered by enemies of state, using some fake mullas /scholars. Just about 20-25 years ago, Pakistan's intelligence agencies busted network of mullas, preaching their version of Islam, while being employed by state, but actually they were hindus from India. They were busted accidently, other wise no one dare to question the nonsense these mullas present in the name of Islamic faith.
Those who don't admit it, probably have accepted this new culture and new code of Islam.
I can quote real life examples.. but than fanatics will jump up and down.

 

[tower9]

What a nonsensical absurd proposition. In 2001, the US was an unchallenged hegemon and the public was thirsting for blood after the 911 attacks. If Musharraf were to stand in the way of American fury, Pakistan would be laid waste to. In addition, India would’ve likely joined in the attack to dismember Pakistan.

Where is this magical Ummah you speak of? The only major neighboring Muslim nation is Iran who wanted the Taliban to fall. Then you have the Arab states who sit back even when Palestinian children are slaughtered? You think they would risk their necks for a South Asian country when they wouldn’t even do that for their own Arab brothers?

Musharraf did what he had to do. Just like some people have to collect trash to survive on the streets, it’s not an enviable or desirable proposition but the alternative is death.