Operation Trident and Python - 1971 , Did Navy take those losses

[Windjammer]

:you come up with the weirdest stuff windy its no surprise you seldom have a source to back you up

It's ironic that of the 20 odd other posts, you have no problem with the absentia of a link or source besides if some incidents are mentioned or appear in a journal, do you expect the whole article to be posted for the sake of one or two mentions.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

@Shinigami It is whats stated "a theory". There is no evidence that the sub was destroyed by a depth charge. [Indian claim]

You should have used your brain before, marking that blue line, read again and see whats wrong with your comprehension.

@Capt.Popeye

Only a handful of air crafts were transferred, and during the sanctions Pakistan was paying an arm and a leg for the spares. Ever wondered why we had to buy Mirages?

@Aeronaut Was any attempt made to send down a camera like how they discovered the Titanic? That can provide the answers once and for all. That would not cost very much.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

How could an Egyptian naval officer know the deployment of Indian ships during war time?

He was an Egytian Submariner who was being trained at Vishakhapatnam where the IN's Submariner's school is located. The Egyptian Navy operated Soviet Origin Subs notably the Whisky and Romeo class. Likewise there a few Egyptian Navy officers on the West Coast training with the IN on the Osa class boats which mounted Styx missiles which was also in the EN's inventory apart from the older Komars. There was quite a lot of EN training carried out in India.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

He was an Egytian Submariner who was being trained at Vishakhapatnam where the IN's Submariner's school is located. The Egyptian Navy operated Soviet Origin Subs notably the Whisky and Romeo class. Likewise there a few Egyptian Navy officers on the West Coast training on the Osa class boats which mounted Styx missiles which was also in the EN's inventory apart from the older Komars.

Yes, but was he allowed to scout ships? Did he have binoculars? How could a foreign military officer be allowed such an observation point?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

It's ironic that of the 20 odd other posts, you have no problem with the absentia of a link or source besides if some incidents are mentioned or appear in a journal, do you expect the whole article to be posted for the sake of one or two mentions.

Windy; at least mention the source. It might help to give some boost to your credibility.....

 

[Kompromat]

@Aeronaut Was any attempt made to send down a camera like how they discovered the Titanic? That can provide the answers once and for all. That would not cost very much.

Indian govt refused requests both from Pakistan and US to salvage the sub.

 

[Shinigami]

No, just intense curiosity. Since you said "hey. if u want to know anything about indo pak wars, or about warfare at all, i am the guy to ask. i dare say there are not many here who are as well versed in the topic as me."


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...d-navy-took-those-losses-2.html#ixzz2a3sxW5Vs

And I've never met anybody (so far) who has said that.
So go on.

i wasnt serious earlier. takes a lot more than that to hurt my feelings.
my knowledge on general warfare is massive and gained from documentaries, countless articles and simulations. but i suspect your knowledge in these operations are greater than mine. but i would like to test it. are you aware of the friendly fire PAF made after OP Trident?

@Shinigami That is whats stated "a theory". There is no evidence that the sub was destroyed by a depth charge.

You should have used your brain before, marking that blue line, read again and see whats wrong with your comprehension.
@Capt.Popeye

Only a handful of air crafts were transferred, and during the sanctions Pakistan was paying an arm and a leg for the spares. Ever wondered why we had to buy Mirages?

you are the one with the comprehension issues i'm afraid. the depth charges (like any other) caused a damage which was fatal, which took time to cause the result. it doesnt take an einstein to ***** the possibilities and zero in on the most likely scenario:
1. PN sub crew are inept.
2. The american sub was faulty hardware and exploded out of all places, out of all times, right in Vishakapatanam harbor where ASW was going on.
3. Depth charges from indian ships caused an unreported damage and they paid dearly for it later on

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Indian govt refused requests both from Pakistan and US to salvage the sub.

Interesting. Isn't retrieving remains of soldiers dying in combat permitted? It can be done even now I am sure.

 

[Windjammer]

Windy; at least mention the source. It might help to give some boost to your credibility.....

If you were as well read as i am, you should know the source. !!

 

[Kompromat]

you are the one with the comprehension issues i'm afraid. the depth charges (like any other) caused a damage which was fatal, which took time to cause the result. it doesnt take an einstein to ***** the possibilities and zero in on the most likely scenario:
1. PN sub crew are inept.
2. The american sub was faulty hardware and exploded out of all places, out of all times, right in Vishakapatanam harbor where ASW was going on.
3. Depth charges from indian ships caused an unreported damage and they paid dearly for it later on

The fact is that there is absolutely no evidence of the sub sinking linked to "Indian laid" depth charge. The line you highlighted talked about "depth charges laid by the sub itself" [It was upgraded in Turkey for laying depth charges] NOT "Indian laid depth charges". Read again if you have little comprehension skills left.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

@Shinigami It is whats stated "a theory". There is no evidence that the sub was destroyed by a depth charge. [Indian claim]

You should have used your brain before, marking that blue line, read again and see whats wrong with your comprehension.

@Capt.Popeye

Only a handful of air crafts were transferred, and during the sanctions Pakistan was paying an arm and a leg for the spares. Ever wondered why we had to buy Mirages?

Again; Aeronut, there were no sanctions. The Embargo were imposed only after Operation Searchlight when the massacre commenced in East Pakistan. That came as a reaction to the turmoil in the US State Department over US policies in the region. As well as the uproar in the UN.Even after that Nixon used CENTO countries to by-pass the so called embargo. Not Sanctions.
As I said it is well documented in the papers of the State Department and even discussed here on PDF. Just to educate yourself, I'd refer you to the thread where Fatman 17 has documented all the transfers of Military Eqpt from the USA to Pakistan under MAP, FMS, EDA etc etc and then check out the period in question i.e. 1965-1971. You are bound to find that revelatory.

 

[Shinigami]

Windy; at least mention the source. It might help to give some boost to your credibility.....

i doubt he has any credibility to boost. biased by dislike for india, makes him unreliable

 

[notorious_eagle]

@Slav Defence;
Our esteemed Niaz Sahab, is a long time veteran of the Oil Industry. With an amazing knowledge of Petroleum/Enegy matters (as I've found out on PDF). Apart from that he is a very thinking and articulate person on varied topics as reflected in his posts on this forum.

At that time he worked with Shell Oil in Pakistan and was a first-hand observer and participant in events. Hearing his account of them will be fascinating.

He has already posted his account, i will try to find it, it was during a conversation with Air Cmdr Muradk. The irony was that the incompetent Naval Chief was sipping tea at a party at his residence, and its rumoured that when the oil tanks blew up, he remarked look at those fire works.

Windy; at least mention the source. It might help to give some boost to your credibility.....

Actually WindJammer is correct in this case.

An Indian merchant ship broke down and drifted into Pakistan's EEZ. PN made it clear that any intrusion by IN vessels would be declared hostile and would be dealt with full force. USN offered to toe the Indian vessel which was accepted by both India and Pakistan.

 

[SQ8]

He has already posted his account, i will try to find it, it was during a conversation with Air Cmdr Muradk. The irony was that the incompetent Naval Chief was sipping tea at a party at his residence, and its rumoured that when the oil tanks blew up, he remarked look at those fire works..

That wasnt the Naval Chief per se and it wasnt tea that was being sipped.

 

[notorious_eagle]

That wasnt the Naval Chief per se and it wasnt tea that was being sipped.

Can you expand on that, i heard of this incident quite a while ago but it has totally slipped out of my mind.