Operation Rah-e-Rast (Swat)

[ajpirzada]

So, you think doing nothing about the cause of their creation will make the reason cease to exist? What makes you think that by killing a few hundred Talibs, you will be able to crush the movement?

Has the GoP and PA ever given it a thought, Are they fighting a group of terrorist or an Ideology? Is this not simply succumbing to international pressure and going for an offensive against Taliban?

In the long run Sir, nothing will change. http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...al-qaeda-no-longer-operating-afghanistan.html Simply shows that if anythings, the drone will hit even more frequently than before. How can you think about Crushing the movement, when you don't address the main basic reason. Again It is not my personal opinion that TTP was made by Drone attack. From what I have heard / seen, Mrs. Bhutto was assassinated before any Drones hit Waziristan.

Infact, when the last article of Drone attack was mentioned, Pakistani members supported the attack that they are hitting the right areas now. This is precisely what we call "changing tables"



No one ever can. Just wanted that is their any proper rationale behing launching the attack or is it a cooked up story in some closed door meeting. It apparently is the latter.


Whatever you say sir, Just that the sudden change of name of thread from WoT to Pakistan's War caused this doubt.

military operation is only a short term solution. long run depends of many other factors. US drone attacks will always help taliban in marketin their ideology.
bhutto was killed after drone attacks started. first drone attack was in 2004 at weddin party and second one at a funneral. later army was sent to that area and situation deteriorated.
i cant speak for other pakistanis who are supposedly supportin drone attacks.

and ya those lines were in one of the news articles being posted iin this thread. so i didnt just come up with those lines to hijack this thread

 

[Skeptic]

So will this reasoning not cause some ethical dilemma in PA ranks and files that they are fighting with just short term goal in mind and with no long term perspective. That PA and GoP were not willing to go ahead with strikes (On what is now termed as TOS) on their own and they are now being egged on by comment and remarks made by US govt.

So this is how I see things:

1. TTP were Patriotic Pakistanis and were motivated to their anti Pakistan stance just because of Drone Strikes.

2. Pakistani people and hence Pakistani Army as well was supportive of their stance. (Army comes from People)

3. TTP launches Suicide attacks within Pakistan which are not justified.

4. Still no offensive is launches instead a peace deal is offered.

5. TTP violates the Peace deal and still march on. Talibanization of Karachi and other areas continues but still no offensive from govt.

6. GoP and PA are still reluctant to launch a full scale offensive

7. US makes some hard hitting comments and hints at withdrawal of Aid money

8. Pakistan Launches an offensive which is now supported by some 80% of Pakistanis now.

9. These are now beyond the reach of media and Imran Khan is termed as a traitor if he wants to speak on civilian causalities.

10. PA goes in with all guns blazing air strikes and heavy artillery employed. No accountability of civilian causalities and only word to have on situation is from PA.

11. Nothing is done to prevent Drone strikes the Primary cause of disturbance.

Its all too screwed up to even form a sarcastic summary. Who are PA working for is it GoP, is it civilians or is it USA?

What is their Plan? Do they think they can flatten everything in the area and Taliban would go away? Do they think US will stop Drone attacks for no apparent reason? If this is the short term strategy, What is the long term and why are Pakistani people not made aware of this strategy?

 

[ajpirzada]

So will this reasoning not cause some ethical dilemma in PA ranks and files that they are fighting with just short term goal in mind and with no long term perspective. That PA and GoP were not willing to go ahead with strikes (On what is now termed as TOS) on their own and they are now being egged on by comment and remarks made by US govt.

So this is how I see things:

1. TTP were Patriotic Pakistanis and were motivated to their anti Pakistan stance just because of Drone Strikes.

2. Pakistani people and hence Pakistani Army as well was supportive of their stance. (Army comes from People)

3. TTP launches Suicide attacks within Pakistan which are not justified.

4. Still no offensive is launches instead a peace deal is offered.

5. TTP violates the Peace deal and still march on. Talibanization of Karachi and other areas continues but still no offensive from govt.

6. GoP and PA are still reluctant to launch a full scale offensive

7. US makes some hard hitting comments and hints at withdrawal of Aid money

8. Pakistan Launches an offensive which is now supported by some 80% of Pakistanis now.

9. These are now beyond the reach of media and Imran Khan is termed as a traitor if he wants to speak on civilian causalities.

10. PA goes in with all guns blazing air strikes and heavy artillery employed. No accountability of civilian causalities and only word to have on situation is from PA.

11. Nothing is done to prevent Drone strikes the Primary cause of disturbance.

Its all too screwed up to even form a sarcastic summary. Who are PA working for is it GoP, is it civilians or is it USA?

What is their Plan? Do they think they can flatten everything in the area and Taliban would go away? Do they think US will stop Drone attacks for no apparent reason? If this is the short term strategy, What is the long term and why are Pakistani people not made aware of this strategy?

1: TTP was not involved in anti pak activities before drone strikes and army action in tribal areas. gov didnt take care of the problem and it worsened.

2: majority was supportive of their stance till the time they started targeting everyone and kind of became a criminal group with almost no fixed goal

3: a successful offensive can only be launched once their is enough public support which was never there untill now

4: if US pressure and public openion against taliban comes at the same time then i cant do much about that

5: imran khan is a different discussion and there is another thread for this

6: media cannot operate in war zone so only source of info left is army

7: efforts are still being made to stop drone attacks. and we dont experiance them too often lik we did in earlier.

8: army is under GoP. but soldier comes from civilian population. now if GoP tells army to fight while their is no national consensus then y should we expect a soldier to fight (although he will still fight) with zeal. y should i give my life away when my naiton think im dyin for nothing?? soldiers are humans and not machines. religion was another issue but after this peace deal talibans have kind of made it clear that they are not really interested in shariah or islam. they have their own motive


who told u there is no long term strategy. in long term strategy we have to generate economic activity in these areas, provide education, strenghten our police, stop drone attacks, provide cheap and quick justice etc. and all this has been said by our gov

 

[ajpirzada]

People join hands with Security Forces to wipe out militancy: SMC
SWAT, May 10 (APP): The people of militancy-hit Swat district and adjoining areas have joined hands with the security forces by declaring Jihad against militants and anti-state elements with an objective to wipe out the menace of militancy and terrorism from the valley.

According to the spokesman Swat Media Centre , the people of Swat have declared Jihad against militants who have not only sabotaged peace process but also destroyed peace of the valley on the behest of some hostile forces.

The residents of Swat and adjoining districts are fully backing the security forces with an objective to curb the menace of militancy and terrorism at large.

He said that the operation of Security Forces would continue till complete elimination of militancy and terrorism from Swat and adjoining areas and establishment of government’s writ.

He said that security forces will continue their efforts till achievement of durable and long lasting peace and tranquility in restive Swat valley.

Associated Press Of Pakistan ( Pakistan's Premier NEWS Agency ) - People join hands with Security Forces to wipe out militancy: SMC

 

[ajpirzada]

^^those against military operation in swat have got no right to say anything after the above news....

 

[RescueRanger]

|Good Luck to our men and women ?(fighting the good fight)! Tum baro agey, hum tumeray sath hain!

 

[Hellfire]

ya one of ur old demand. i guess someone from within the army has taken ur advice after goin through this forum

oh that would be pushing things to a limit. but i am seeing further input of troops soon from Sindh sector

The rationale is what I have always maintained ..... you need troops to deny space for ANEs (Anti-National Elements) to regroup/stage counter offensive against PA as also to 'hold' the ground an essential pre-requisite for effective execution of counter insurgency operations.

 

[Hellfire]

6 Brigades shifted to Swat from eastern border .

that is the beginning saad

6 brigades mean 2 division worth of troops along with the support elements .... looking at a figure of about 25+ x 1000 troops being inducted. And the figures will climb as the re-orientation takes place from defeating an entrenched enemy to holding the territory and deny space for counter offensives to be launched ........ in the end, look at 200 x 1000 or thereabout number of overall force being inducted inclusive of PA and PMFs.

 

[S-2]

You were called out on your own thread as a troll. I'm doing it again here-

"Again It is not my personal opinion that TTP was made by Drone attack. From what I have heard / seen, Mrs. Bhutto was assassinated before any Drones hit Waziristan."

This would be wrong so it makes your views quite questionable as any base premise to your further ramblings-

CIA Aircraft Kills Terrorist-ABC 13 May 2005

"Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has confirmed on his arrival in Kuwait that a top Syrian Al-Qaeda operative in Pakistan has been killed.

Asked by reporters at the airport to confirm a newspaper report that Hamza Rabia was killed in a missile strike on Thursday, General Musharraf said: "Yes indeed, 200 per cent confirmed".

He says Hamza was killed "in North Waziristan".

Al Qaeda Commander Killed In Pakistan-ABC 3 Dec 2005

Next would be your dissembling lies with Petraeus' comments. You've yet to show where he's suggested that drone attacks will expand into Pakistan. If you can't back this slander and callous speculation then you'll be reported as a worthless hack and provocateur.

Have it your way but, to date, you talk a fancy game utterly devoid of substance. That B.S. doesn't walk.

 

[S-2]

"...war on terror is still americas war. we are at war with TTP and not afghan talibans or imaginary al qaeda"

Head chopping is fine just so long as it's in Afghanistan, eh? Supporting a defeated army and it's government is fine too as it makes war from your soil on the afghani people and 40 nations from around the globe trying to help? What about all that "sovereignty" B.S?

Selectively applied.

Can you be so numb? Don't the beheadings revulse you? Why do you think that's fine for Afghanistan? Strategic depth?

Disgusting.

 

[afzaalkhan]

Spare me this bullshit.This is what happens in war.What do you want state to do?Surrender to these bastards?They were given more then enough time to disarm under peace deal.I can understand your emotions but please use your brain.Army had no other option except liberating Swat from Talibans.

13 days of nifaz-e-adl and thats it? 13 days to make the area normal. Dun even start me on disarming while this was going on theere was gang fights in liyari, gues wat police did ran away and then begged the gang leaders to stoop killing which they did on thier own term. How abt some jet bombardment in liyari eh?

 

[afzaalkhan]

nifaz-e-adal: we did do that but taliban didnt lay down their arms. they entered buner and other areas. did u hear the recorded conversation of fazlullah with one of his commanders?? in which he was tellin him to stage a fake withdrawl from buner.

Local population: do u really think local lashkar can fight these ppl who are armed with RPGs, rocket launchers, machine guns, and wat not?? local elders who opposed them have already been killed.

jets and gunship might not be the best way but thats the only option available. also jets and gunships are being used to target taliban hideouts in mountains and not in villages. one can always be more carefull to avoid civllian causalities but they will always be there.

keep drinking army and establishment kool aid. BTW how abt drone attacks why dun ur army show somee balls against the drone attacks. But waiit they wont cuz then they will get thier arses kicked.

 

[S-2]

"why dun ur army show somee balls against the drone attacks. But waiit they wont cuz then they will get thier arses kicked."

You read like irhabi scum that would like to provoke war between Pakistan and NATO. Funny that you wallow in the protection of Canadian laws.

Of course you don't care if the defeated taliban army and gov't reside in Pakistan and make war on the afghani people and Canadian soldiers there to help them. Nor do you care if they enslave those now trapped in the Islamic Emirate of Waziristan.

Nor do you care that the taliban had no business in Buner but couldn't leave well enough alone. ON TO ISLAMABAD, eh?

They fcuked up and played their cards fast and loose. The only "arses kicked" that you need worry about are your sleazy murderous friends in SWAT and Buner.

 

[LCA]

CIA and ISI together created Taliban, says Zardari

CIA and ISI together created Taliban, says Zardari in US


May 11, 2009 11:20 IST

In a new revelation, Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari [Images] has said that the CIA of the United States and his country's ISI together created the Taliban [Images].

"I think it was part of your past and our past, and the ISI and CIA created them together," Zardari told the NBC news channel in an interview.

In the interview, which was given to the NBC on May 7, Zardari also accused the US of supporting the military rule of Pervez Musharraf [Images] who was alleged to be taking sides of the Taliban.

He disagreed with the popular belief in the US that the Pakistan military and intelligent services still have sympathies for the Taliban.

Asked about the influential role of the Pakistan Army [Images], Zardari said he is in control of everything in the country, including the military.

"The Parliament has final say. It's the Parliament form of government, and I am a product of Parliament," he said.

Earlier, Zardari in an another interview had said that India was not a "threat" to his country and that Pakistan had moved some of its forces from its Indian border to western frontier to eliminate Taliban in its tribal belt.

 

[Skeptic]

You were called out on your own thread as a troll. I'm doing it again here-

"Again It is not my personal opinion that TTP was made by Drone attack. From what I have heard / seen, Mrs. Bhutto was assassinated before any Drones hit Waziristan."

This would be wrong so it makes your views quite questionable as any base premise to your further ramblings-

CIA Aircraft Kills Terrorist-ABC 13 May 2005

"Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has confirmed on his arrival in Kuwait that a top Syrian Al-Qaeda operative in Pakistan has been killed.

Asked by reporters at the airport to confirm a newspaper report that Hamza Rabia was killed in a missile strike on Thursday, General Musharraf said: "Yes indeed, 200 per cent confirmed".

He says Hamza was killed "in North Waziristan".

Al Qaeda Commander Killed In Pakistan-ABC 3 Dec 2005

Next would be your dissembling lies with Petraeus' comments. You've yet to show where he's suggested that drone attacks will expand into Pakistan. If you can't back this slander and callous speculation then you'll be reported as a worthless hack and provocateur.

Have it your way but, to date, you talk a fancy game utterly devoid of substance. That B.S. doesn't walk.

Getting one's facts incorrect on a minor issue is much more innocent than getting it wrong on WMD issue. I agree it was incoprrect on my part.

And as for adding substance to inferences on Petraeus' comments, is it really required for him to spell it out. Is it not easily visible?

UPDATE 2-U.S. drone attack kills at least five in Pakistan | Reuters

The United States began increasing the frequency of drone attacks in Pakistan a year ago. There has been no let-up since President Barack Obama's administration took office in January, despite complaints from the Pakistani government.

The United States carried out about 40 drone air strikes since the begining of last year, most since September, killing more than 300 people, according to a tally of reports from Pakistani intelligence agents, district government officials and residents.

Including Saturday's strike, there have been 15 attacks this year, with five in April.

Top Stories | Pakistan Observer Newspaper online edition


Kindly refrain from name calling in a debate, it makes one look stupid and childish.