Operation Rah-e-Rast (Swat)

[afzaalkhan]

Regarding the Jirgas, you deliberately ignore the TTP assassinations, mass murders, suicide bombings and fixate only upon the drones. Shows that you are unwilling to reconcile with reality as well and yet you accuse others of doing so!

TTP should be treated with as much respect as the TTP respect their end of the bargain, if you want me to feel sorry for Naik Muhammad and his kind then sorry this is not going to happen.

I know of martyrs in Pakistan Army who have been buried with full Honor, i do not know which parents you are referring to but maybe it is due to the fact that TTP mutilate the bodies of their enemies!

In WANA, a course mate of my friend commanding 30 troops was hopelessly outnumbered by Taliban who were 400 strong.
This was 2-3 years ago and the FC force had already fled the area (common in those days...not anymore).
All day and night the battle continued and when all ammunition was spent and most of the troops martyred the remaining soldiers who were mostly injured and had nothing to fight with, were made to surrender.
The surrendering troops were riddled with hundreds of bullets and then set on fire whereas many Taliban celebrated with aerial firing and dancing on the dead charred bodies.
This was witnessed by the poor lad who was an artillery observer nearby and had lost contact with command himself due to equipment failure.
The great young officer who fought with all his heart is recalled by all his friends and course mates with the greatest of praise and is honored as a noble son of Pakistan in our hearts.
To you he is a paid mercenary of US, to me he is a hero of Pakistan who died for my sake!

You are critical of any army operation and want no harm to the civilians in anyway due to collateral...
TTP have killed thousands of civilians and they will not stop....but still you want Army to hold back because you want to negotiate with scum like TTP and bring about peace agreements with terrorists!

With this kind of logic how you would hope to eliminate TTP and its terrorism is beyond me and shows that you are also living in your own utopia and expect us to be realistic!

well we have been follwoing this policy since mujahid-e-azam's bravely surrendered to USA post 9/11. Continue with this and soon will know who was right. We waging war on our own ppl, the history of operations in Pakistan is army = zero, this will also end up like this.

 

[afzaalkhan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/06/world/asia/06islamabad.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&ref=world

There have been at least a half-dozen reported courts-martial of soldiers who refused to fight, and the real number was probably larger, Professor Hussain said.

In Jhelum, a town 100 miles south of Islamabad and a place with a proud military history, one village had shown in the boldest terms the anger about the military fighting Muslims on Pakistani soil, said Enver Baig, a former senator with the Pakistan Peoples Party, who considers himself a pro-American politician.

When the body of a soldier killed in the tribal areas was taken home to his family last year, the father refused to accept his son’s coffin, Mr. Baig said.

Instead, the father took off his shoe and used it to slap the army officer who had escorted the body.

A month later, when another soldier’s body was delivered to the same village, the army left the body on the village outskirts, Mr. Baig said.

 

[All-Green]

well we have been follwoing this policy since mujahid-e-azam's bravely surrendered to USA post 9/11. Continue with this and soon will know who was right. We waging war on our own ppl, the history of operations in Pakistan is army = zero, this will also end up like this.

The current mess we are in is due to TTP, militancy and lawlessness.
The internal threat has made sure that as a state we are struggling bitterly.

On one hand you want Musharraf to have gone to war with US over something which was not Pakistan's war but on the other hand you are so averse to collateral or damages that you are totally against even your own army to operate against terrorists who have killed your countrymen!
A very interesting stance made possible only by being entirely detached from reality and on ground situation!

Try to understand what you are up against, the grand illusions of your pan-Islamism and struggle for Shariat will melt as soon as you encounter the pack of wolves called TTP and get to know what they do to those who do not agree with them.

Regardless of the outcome of this struggle, i totally disagree with your point of view.

 

[ajpirzada]

@ AfzalKhan
go back and read the news where swat ppl have declared jihad against talibans. now if swat ppl are in favour of military operation then who the hell are u to speak against it. its not ur family which lives in swat but theirs. tell taliban to lay down arm and we will stop the military operation. if they dont then we will fight them untill we run out of bullets. we dont care how many times our a$$ get kicked. but rit now its the other way round. look at the how many talibans have we killed. i know u dont feel gud about that

 

[ajpirzada]

The current mess we are in is due to TTP, militancy and lawlessness.
The internal threat has made sure that as a state we are struggling bitterly.

On one hand you want Musharraf to have gone to war with US over something which was not Pakistan's war but on the other hand you are so averse to collateral or damages that you are totally against even your own army to operate against terrorists who have killed your countrymen!
A very interesting stance made possible only by being entirely detached from reality and on ground situation!

Try to understand what you are up against, the grand illusions of your pan-Islamism and struggle for Shariat will melt as soon as you encounter the pack of wolves called TTP and get to know what they do to those who do not agree with them.

Regardless of the outcome of this struggle, i totally disagree with your point of view.

bro dont u know u r talking to someone who has already made up his mind and is not willing debate but argue

 

[All-Green]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/06/world/asia/06islamabad.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&ref=world

You do not understand what the struggle is about, or else you would not be so much against Army at a time when it needs support, on the other hand the Army has support of most of the nation so it can do without yours.

I am well aware of the reality, being in touch with people who have been there and also who live there...from both civilian and Army perspective...

Army has mostly fought with valor and to the last man, the martyrs of Army have been given full ceremonial burials and accorded the due respect.

There were instances of refusal to fight or negligence in the ranks of FC but that was in the past.
The appointment of a veteran like Gen Tariq Khan and High command's focus on FC has already improved its discipline and instilled a will to fight in the ranks.

A few years ago FC had ancient equipment whereas the militants and terrorists boasted the latest weaponry...that is what actually caused FC to be inefficient and the entire operation was compromised on many occasions.
Now the focus of the government is in the right direction and things shall improve.

The tribes and Swatis etc are all against TTP, whereas they will be angry with PA for collateral...all shall be forgiven once TTP is eliminated....that is what they want.
They want things to go back to how they were before Taliban takeover and in order to do that TTP's back has to be broken!

If operation is halted to minimize casualties and negotiate like in the past, TTP will win in breaking the will of the Pakistanis for ever and we might as well say goodbye to Pakistan.

Where do your arguments stand in all of this is still what i have not been able to determine...good luck to you in figuring it out.

If you are a fan of Taliban, be warned they are not the Islamic warriors you imagine them to be.
They are as vile a body of evil men as any who have roamed the earth!

 

[afzaalkhan]

You do not understand what the struggle is about, or else you would not be so much against Army at a time when it needs support, on the other hand the Army has support of most of the nation so it can do without yours.

I am well aware of the reality, being in touch with people who have been there and also who live there...from both civilian and Army perspective...

Army has mostly fought with valor and to the last man, the martyrs of Army have been given full ceremonial burials and accorded the due respect.

There were instances of refusal to fight or negligence in the ranks of FC but that was in the past.
The appointment of a veteran like Gen Tariq Khan and High command's focus on FC has already improved its discipline and instilled a will to fight in the ranks.

A few years ago FC had ancient equipment whereas the militants and terrorists boasted the latest weaponry...that is what actually caused FC to be inefficient and the entire operation was compromised on many occasions.
Now the focus of the government is in the right direction and things shall improve.

The tribes and Swatis etc are all against TTP, whereas they will be angry with PA for collateral...all shall be forgiven once TTP is eliminated....that is what they want.
They want things to go back to how they were before Taliban takeover and in order to do that TTP's back has to be broken!

If operation is halted to minimize casualties and negotiate like in the past, TTP will win in breaking the will of the Pakistanis for ever and we might as well say goodbye to Pakistan.

Where do your arguments stand in all of this is still what i have not been able to determine...good luck to you in figuring it out.

If you are a fan of Taliban, be warned they are not the Islamic warriors you imagine them to be.
They are as vile a body of evil men as any who have roamed the earth!

answer me one qts why we fighting in FATA and swat. Is it we fighting TTP? Thats all there is the whole unrest in Tribal belt is cuz of TTP insurgency and thats what we are fighting? I really want to know i am willing to debate so lets move it fwd whats our goal, get rid of TTP thats all there is or its a bigger agenda?

 

[afzaalkhan]

@ AfzalKhan
go back and read the news where swat ppl have declared jihad against talibans. now if swat ppl are in favour of military operation then who the hell are u to speak against it. its not ur family which lives in swat but theirs. tell taliban to lay down arm and we will stop the military operation. if they dont then we will fight them untill we run out of bullets. we dont care how many times our a$$ get kicked. but rit now its the other way round. look at the how many talibans have we killed. i know u dont feel gud about that[/QUOTE

Like will fight 4 kashmir for 1000 yrs LOL sultan rahi in action, keep doing barhaks, its not u fighting and its not u who is suffering easy to sit back and let other fights ur masters war.

 

[All-Green]

answer me one qts why we fighting in FATA and swat. Is it we fighting TTP? Thats all there is the whole unrest in Tribal belt is cuz of TTP insurgency and thats what we are fighting? I really want to know i am willing to debate so lets move it fwd whats our goal, get rid of TTP thats all there is or its a bigger agenda?

Since i have given you a lot of my time (in terms of lines written )...i think you need to answer my questions/comments regarding TTP and what it has been doing to the people of Pakistan.

Tell me what is your view on the Taliban, TTP and all their allies?

What threat do you think these militant and terrorist organizations pose to Pakistan as a State and Pakistanis as its citizens?

What role do you want Army to play and why?

 

[Jihad]

afzaalkhan, you got something stuck up your butt-hole?
Is that why you're so frustrated and stupid at the same time?
Where did you find the guts and motivation to call our army a bunch of "losers"?
Even in these times?

Please do not abuse the Pakistani flag and go get laid or something, maybe that will help you overcome your frustrations in life, since I get the feeling that you can't get what a man needs, hence why you react it out on this forum and on the Pak Army with your utterly useless rants.

 

[afzaalkhan]

Since i have given you a lot of my time (in terms of line written )...i think you need to answer my questions/comments regarding TTP and what it has been doing to the people of Pakistan.

Tell me what is your view on the Taliban, TTP and all their allies?

What threat do you think these militant and terrorist organizations pose to Pakistan as a State and Pakistanis as its citizens?

What role do you want Army to play and why?

Thank u bro, sorry looks like I read over my apologies, will answer now.

1 - Talibaan in Afghanistan, not my headache nor my problem, I agree with any muslim who says shariah law is best in prinicple but I strongly, disagree and consider it Fitna the way Talibaan has gone abt implementing in afghanistan. Specially the shariah punishments which shouldn't be implemented not becausse they are bad cuz the criteria to implement them is not fullfileed, eg chopping someone hand for stealing when the economic situation is bad is not Islam when there is prosperity and everythingg is honky dorky then and ony then u can do that cuz then person stealing cuz of simple greed.

2 - TTP and thier allies are 110% wrong, if they want to bring sharia they have to put down guns and convince ppl by dawa, as mentions in Quran (paraphrassing) and invite toward path of ALLAH with wisdom and humbleness.

3 - These militants and not only in tribal belt but all over sindh, Baluchistan and parts of punjab are threat to security and stability of pakistan.

I have answered ur qts, if u need further clarification plz do ask. Now i hope u can answer the qts.

 

[afzaalkhan]

afzaalkhan, you got something stuck up your butt-hole?
Is that why you're so frustrated and stupid at the same time?
Where did you find the guts and motivation to call our army a bunch of "losers"?
Even in these times?

Please do not abuse the Pakistani flag and go get laid or something, maybe that will help you overcome your frustrations in life, since I get the feeling that you can't get what a man needs, hence why you react it out on this forum and on the Pak Army with your utterly useless rants.

i can answer u in kind but then i have to stooop down to ur level and dun wana lower my IQ:p, I never called army looser i called them murderes and mercenaries.

 

[ajpirzada]

Thank u bro, sorry looks like I read over my apologies, will answer now.

1 - Talibaan in Afghanistan, not my headache nor my problem, I agree with any muslim who says shariah law is best in prinicple but I strongly, disagree and consider it Fitna the way Talibaan has gone abt implementing in afghanistan. Specially the shariah punishments which shouldn't be implemented not becausse they are bad cuz the criteria to implement them is not fullfileed, eg chopping someone hand for stealing when the economic situation is bad is not Islam when there is prosperity and everythingg is honky dorky then and ony then u can do that cuz then person stealing cuz of simple greed.

2 - TTP and thier allies are 110% wrong, if they want to bring sharia they have to put down guns and convince ppl by dawa, as mentions in Quran (paraphrassing) and invite toward path of ALLAH with wisdom and humbleness.

3 - These militants and not only in tribal belt but all over sindh, Baluchistan and parts of punjab are threat to security and stability of pakistan.

I have answered ur qts, if u need further clarification plz do ask. Now i hope u can answer the qts.

but they are not challengin writ of gov in other parts of pakistan. while they have killed so many tribal elders in FATA and swat.

now wat do u want to do with them?? should we not fight them and let them move to other parts of pakistan?? these ppl are not willing to talk and have got their own agenda.

please answer.....

 

[ajpirzada]

@ AfzalKhan
go back and read the news where swat ppl have declared jihad against talibans. now if swat ppl are in favour of military operation then who the hell are u to speak against it. its not ur family which lives in swat but theirs. tell taliban to lay down arm and we will stop the military operation. if they dont then we will fight them untill we run out of bullets. we dont care how many times our a$$ get kicked. but rit now its the other way round. look at the how many talibans have we killed. i know u dont feel gud about that[/QUOTE

Like will fight 4 kashmir for 1000 yrs LOL sultan rahi in action, keep doing barhaks, its not u fighting and its not u who is suffering easy to sit back and let other fights ur masters war.

yes its not me who is suffering. but those (ppl of swat) who are suffering are supporting army operation. now wat??

 

[All-Green]

Thank u bro, sorry looks like I read over my apologies, will answer now.

1 - Talibaan in Afghanistan, not my headache nor my problem, I agree with any muslim who says shariah law is best in prinicple but I strongly, disagree and consider it Fitna the way Talibaan has gone abt implementing in afghanistan. Specially the shariah punishments which shouldn't be implemented not becausse they are bad cuz the criteria to implement them is not fullfileed, eg chopping someone hand for stealing when the economic situation is bad is not Islam when there is prosperity and everythingg is honky dorky then and ony then u can do that cuz then person stealing cuz of simple greed.

2 - TTP and thier allies are 110% wrong, if they want to bring sharia they have to put down guns and convince ppl by dawa, as mentions in Quran (paraphrassing) and invite toward path of ALLAH with wisdom and humbleness.

3 - These militants and not only in tribal belt but all over sindh, Baluchistan and parts of punjab are threat to security and stability of pakistan.

I have answered ur qts, if u need further clarification plz do ask. Now i hope u can answer the qts.

This is adding to my confusion.
Regarding TTP you are in agreement with myself but you are very hard on the Army which is not anti Pakistan and has to clean up the house in order for Pakistan to survive.

If it was just a bunch of hooligans creating trouble then you and i both would agree to send in police or constabulary but the problem is that TTP are no ordinary thugs and that is why PA will always be needed.

You should read what the TTP was capable of in Bajaur, do read it and you will understand that it is not a band of 100 men we are fighting but thousands.

I gave you an example when even 2-3 years ago TTP managed to overwhelm a post by staging a diversionary attack else where, they were able to put in battalion strengths in a new theater and all fully equipped whereas the FC could not send in reinforcement within 24 hours!

The tribal areas are our strength and our weakness in case the leaders are compromised or held hostage or when they are assassinated.
That is why we have to ensure that FC is a very well equipped force and backed by all modern military hardware.

Do you think if our Army was actually evil enough to target its own civilians the casualties would not have been tremendously more?

I will give you another example of another associate in command of a squad of soldiers in WANA theater.
This was 3-4 years ago and at the time the Army was soft, accommodating and wanted to make people 100% comfortable so the wartime treatment was not being meted out to the civilians in the populated areas.
The squad passed by a Mosque and he saw 5-10 men praying (who were Taliban faking to pray in order to ambush).
Instead of searching them he decided to let them pray and passed by, only to be shot by one of the men 2-3 times in the back and being crippled for life from the waist down.

My friend i wish you had seen or heard the real thing and you would be as bitter about Taliban as i am but i guess you have not been aware of the ground reality and do not know what Army sacrificed to minimize the casualties.
You call them murderers and mercenaries but i know the pains they took to ensure minimum casualties and the utter disregard for life and property which the Taliban display...whatever Taliban do is the will of Allah (as per them) and so acceptable whereas whatever Army does is from US?
Come on, this is exactly what an enemy of Pakistan would want us to think like...open your eyes to the reality that Army is fighting for Pakistanis.

Islam is just a drama being played in these lands, it is all about power and without Army we cannot overwhelm the TTP.

Use Army and risk a controlled action with some collateral in order to neutralize TTP or bound yourself completely and sit tight till the eager hands of TTP reach you and slash your neck...this is the actual choice we have...

Do not be so angry with past and present mistakes of our leadership that you forget the threat posed by TTP, let us focus on threat number 1 that is TTP and then we shall take one step at a time.
Minus TTP we can solve our issues in time but with TTP intact we shall simply crash and burn.