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Operation Rah-e-Rast (Swat)

I refuse to believe that Kiyani was completely out of the decision making process for whatever happened in Swat or Buner. He, with his experience of leading ISI, would have had exact judgement of where the things would have headed. If you are arguing that he kept mum over all this, it reflects very bad on his responsibilities. So somewhere in the administration, there is a soft corner for Talibs.
Kiyani was obviously in the decision making process, but IMO in a capacity of offering advice as to what sort of repercussions a sustained military operation would have.

You can rest assured that the Civilian leaders were informed about the potential of a million or more displaced and possibly large amounts of civilian casualties and damage to property as the militants hid in populated areas and used civilians as shields.

All of this would not have made a very pretty analysis for a civilian government, especially given the hostility in Pakistan to carrying out military operations (post Lal Masjid). So the GoP and GoNWFP grasped at the last straw of implementing the NAR through Sufi Mohammed and attempting to disarm the Taliban, and avoid exactly what we are seeing today.

And by simply looking at your history, one can not overrule the possibility that Kiyani is looking to grab power. I would be surprised if he is not. So, why not let things go out of hand first, then step in with army with full force, defeat the Talibs (at least for the name sake) & get people to support you? Probably that is what he up to.
One cannot overrule the possibility, but one can draw conclusions based on Kiyani's conduct so far and the statements from political leaders and military analysts who are familiar with him and his policies.

The fact remains, as I pointed out on that thread, that there have been many apolitical COAS in the Army, so it is better to have informed analysis based on Kiyani's conduct so far, rather than assumptions without any evidence as to whether Kiyani is apolitical or not.
 
Gen. Kiyani has had at least two other opportunities to "grab power" so far, the major one being the time of the Long March and the governments mess, and both times he has played the role of reconciliator not instigator. There is a view popular in India that every man in the Pakistan Army wants to seize power, and instead of trying to make them "see the light" I would rather let them live in ignorance and concentrate on my own problems. As for the Americans, well, we need their military and financial support, we can handle the fighting ourselves. There really isn't much the US forces can help us with that we can't already do on our own. The defence minister of Canada, Peter McKay, said that himself during an interview with the national news channel CBC. He said that the situation is different from in Afghanistan and Iraq because "Pakistan has a very capable military", what they need is "support".

All that said, let the few pessimistic Americans and Indians lie in their own mess. We'll continue our efforts to resolve our problems with the help of the smart ones.
 
PFAFAce, Excellent post and true about our brave Army, in my opinion the worst time that Pakistan was in was at the time of soviet invasion of Afghanistan, comparatively this should be cake walk for our Army, so let us all solute our brave Pak army and pray to Allah S.W.T. to grant them the win over nincompoops that these people are.
 
Kayani vows to flush out militancy from Swat

Friday, May 15, 2009
Visits war-torn valley; three commanders among 54 militants killed; ISPR terms BBC report malicious; says no foreign hand behind operation

By Delawar Jan, Essa Khankhel & Muhammad Anis

PESHAWAR/MINGORA: Security forces on Thursday claimed to have killed 54 militants, including three commanders, and suffered nine casualties during fighting in the Swat Valley. Also, on the same day, Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani visited the valley and vowed to flush out militancy from the area.

Gen Kayani visited Swat and met field commanders and troops taking part in the operation. Appreciating the high morale of the troops, he reiterated the Army’s resolve to flush out militancy from Swat and defeat the militants.

Gen Kayani was briefed on the progress of operations by General Officer Commanding. The Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) said that 21 militants were killed when their attack on the base of security forces in Peuchar, the militants’ headquarters, was repulsed. Eight personnel of security forces suffered injuries in the clash. The ISPR said that the troops continued search and destroy operation in the mountainous Peuchar area.

In an action in Ramotai Loe, 15 hideouts were destroyed and 15 militants, including three snipers, were killed. Military sources said that two commanders of the militants, identified as Sadiq and Amir Wahid, were killed in shelling by gunship helicopters in Banai Baba area of Charbagh Tehsil.

Three militants were killed in Odigram, six kilometres south of Mingora city, where intense fighting was reported on Thursday. Security forces also defused improvised explosive devices (IEDs) in Barikot and cleared the area up to Odigram.

The ISPR said the three militants killed also included an important commander.Also, fierce fighting continued in the north of Shalpalam area. However, no detail was provided about the casualties.

Snipers gunned down two militants near the Circuit House, a military base in Mingora. In Tursak area near Mingora, 13 militants were killed. The military conceded nine casualties in clashes with the militants in Swat Valley, besides injuries to 14 others.

A statement of the ISPR said that extraordinary measures were being taken to avoid collateral damage in line with the instructions of the COAS. Security forces have been using artillery guns, jet fighters and gunship helicopters to hit suspected locations of the militants in parts of Swat, including the Mingora city. Tens of thousands of residents from Mingora and its surrounding towns and villages have streamed out to escape the escalated military operation against Maulana Fazlullah-led militants.

The ground forces launched the operation in Sultanwas, considered to be the stronghold of militants in Buner district, early Thursday morning to dislodge them. The ISPR said that the militants were running away from the area and they could get hold of the area within the next two days.

In Dir Lower, scores of casualties were reported from various areas in action by security forces. However, military sources said reports about the casualties in Dir Lower were incorrect.Local sources said that security forces attacked the house of union council Nazim Hayaserai Ziaul Haq, which was occupied by militants and killed more than 20 Taliban. Some sources said the number of casualties was even higher.

Eight to 10 militants’ casualties from Tandodag and 12 from Daro and Lal Qilla were also reported. There were also reports about the killing of two soldiers in Tandodag clash and as many children in Gulabad.

Meanwhile, in Islamabad, ISPR Director General Major General Athar Abbas said ata press conference that no external power was involved in planning, executing and financing the ongoing operation in Swat.

He said no decision to transfer the drone technology to Pakistan had officially been conveyed to Pakistan by the US authorities.He rejected as baseless a BBC report that militants were holding control of most parts of the NWFP, calling the report part of a malicious campaign.

He said Bajaur had been cleared of militants. “A few FC pickets operating in Mohmand Agency are clearing the agency of the remaining militants,” he added. He said not a single headquarters of any of the seven agencies in the Fata had ever been overrun or held by the militants. “All roads in Fata are open and we are also supporting our huge force deployed on the border through all these roads,” he said.

Athar Abbas said security forces had firmed up their positions despite resistance and were successfully pursuing their set target in Peuchar where heliborne troops, including commandos, had recently landed to conduct search and destroy operations.

“The air force is targeting mountains where militants have training centres or have dumped ammunition, food and logistics,” he said. He said Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani visited Swat to boost the morale of troops and exchange views with the commanders.

To a question, he said civilian casualties did take place in Mingora, but it was because of indiscriminate firing by the militants. He said security forces were not conducting the operation in populated areas at the moment.

The DG ISPR assured that extraordinary measures were being taken to avoid collateral damage as per the instructions of the Army chief. He said the Army realised that the management of the IDPs was as important as the military operation in Swat. “The Special Support Group is making all-out efforts to manage the IDPs in a befitting manner,” he added.
Kayani vows to flush out militancy from Swat
 
wat is supposed to be our final battle in swat...


Bloody battle looms for Mingora

* Residents say Taliban have mined roads and dug trenches around 200,000 trapped civilians encircled by Pakistani troops

ISLAMABAD: A deadly battle is looming over the capital of Swat, where armed Taliban have mined roads and dug trenches around 200,000 trapped civilians encircled by Pakistani troops, say residents and officials.

Ground forces have so far avoided close urban combat since launching a renewed offensive to crush the Taliban, instead massing on the outskirts while the Taliban mine exit and entry points, building up for a huge showdown.

Civilians stranded in town by an indefinite curfew narrated tales of horror in snatched telephone calls as communication with the outside world becomes increasingly perilous, and the Taliban and military exchange mortar fire.

“Mingora is a city of landmines, roadside bombs, trenches and masked Taliban armed with heavy weapons,” said Zahir Shah – not his real name in order to protect his identity – now sheltering with relatives in Peshawar.

A government clerk, he fled Mingora with 12 members of his family this week after watching the Taliban dig in for the long haul, walking down from the mountains and taking up position on May 3, before a ceasefire collapsed.

“I saw groups and groups of Taliban armed with heavy weapons entering the city. They entered our street and started digging trenches.

“They took position on the roofs of mosques, schools, hotels, anywhere they wanted. Nobody was there to stop them.”

Military spokesman Major General Athar Abbas estimated this week that 150,000-200,000 people were trapped in Mingora, but the armed forces would lift the curfew for further evacuations before storming the city.

“We have surrounded Mingora and our strategy is to encircle the Taliban,” said Abbas.

The armed forces have little idea how long a fight for Mingora would take.

“We will do the utmost to complete this operation as soon as possible,” said Abbas.

Following calls from rights groups to avoid civilian casualties, army chief Ashfaq Kayani has ordered his troops to ensure “minimum collateral damage”.

Analysts say any battle for Mingora has the potential to be a bloodbath unless civilians are properly evacuated, but vital for the armed forces to claim victory in Swat and return the district to government control.

Defence analyst and retired general Talat Masood said the military should sit tight, squeeze the city, cut supply lines, evacuate civilians and target the Taliban – tactics he said the Russians employed in Chechnya.

“The military can stop their logistic support, cut the supply line, encircle the Taliban and target them one by one. But there will be loss of life. You cannot avoid that. They should have the city vacated and then they can afford to bomb,” he said. afp
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 
DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Eyebrows raised over Swat action in NA

Questions were raised in the National Assembly on Wednesday about the army operation in Swat and Malakand districts and a Pakistan Muslim League-N lawmaker warned of a severe turmoil in the country if immediate remedial measures were not taken.

In a departure from the sentiments expressed in the house in previous days, Khawaja Saad Rafiq said that a majority of MNAs would like to keep away from the proceedings of the house because they felt it has turned into a debating club rather than a sovereign body which should take major national decisions.

They felt that the policies pursued by Gen (retd) Pervez Musharraf remained basically unchanged. He said that while the US and UK urged Sri Lanka to stop military offensive against Tamil rebels they expected Pakistan to ‘do more’ if they wanted to get more dollars.

He said: ‘No doubt, Taliban’s understanding of Islam and their fanatic ideas about imposition of Islam are not acceptable to any Pakistani and their negative attitude is putting Pakistan on the defensive.’

He asked the government if it had sent ulema, politicians or parliamentarians to engage militant leader Fazlullah in dialogue, instead of dealing with an ineffective Sufi Mohammad.

He said efforts should have been made to defuse the situation before launching such a big operation for which four divisions of army had been sent and a few brigades had been withdrawn from the eastern borders.

The army, which had no record of winning any war in the past, including in 1965 and 1971, should have plugged routes of Taliban’s movement towards Shangla and Buner after enforcement of Nizam-i-Adl, he said.

He said the army was misguiding the people with claims about its successes which were not verified by an independent and authoritative body. He said that if military operation in Balochsitan was wrong how could it become necessary in Malakand?

This IMO is certainly not required from the politicians, whichever part they belong to. PA needs full support for this war and such statement in the NA only demoralise the troops in the front line who are facing the enemy bullets for these Armchair Warriors.
 
rokhanyousafzai

the weaponry and calling in of everyting we have for this offensive shows how serius they are about this correct me if im wrong but i dont think the indian army used its airpower to such an extent.

You are right. I agree. IA went in for a concept which I have elucidated earlier also, so am not going to get back into it.


now ur second point i dont blame u for because u havent been watching pakistani news channels either because u dont have access to or just dont watch them but the govt both regional and pak govt have planned for rebuilding to start as soon as its over.

Frankly, I have access to information that is better than feeds from either your networks or any international networks. I dont even take Indian networks seriously. So I do have some idea of what I am going on about.

Plans need funding, and the will to back the plans with adequate resources in a conducive and secure environment. The creation of a secure environment will entail massive employment of security forces to ensure that the gains made are not lost. As such that is an additional burden, something that might eat into your resource distribution in an overall picture. The pace of development has to be synergistic with aspirations of the local population which shall be tremendous as they shall struggle to get their lives back on track which will not give much time for necessary tasks to be initiated by GoP.


The latter paragraph may hold true in isolated pockets. And as such will refrain from debating that point.

Thanks
 
i dont think pakistan really does care about american opinion we all no how successful NATO and america have been in afghanistan frankly we dont want our troops safe in there bases while these thugs run havoc on our people

But the point to be noted is that the NATO is not fighting for their own nation ........ they are in a foreign territory where stakes are not that high.
 
Malakand Operation to be completed successfully within a month, says Qureshi
ISLAMABAD, May 15 (APP): Minister of State for Interior Tasnim Ahmad Qureshi on Friday said the military operation against the miscreants in Malakand division would be completed within a month successfully. Talking to journalists here at Parliament House, the minister criticized politicians who, he said, were ‘criticizing the operation against the miscreants’.
“These are the same people who were warning Islamabad that the insurgents were only few miles away from the capital ‑ behind the Margallah hills. These people are now criticizing the operation for ‘mere face saving’”.

Qureshi said the government took the decision to launch the operation against the militants after exploring all other options available with us.

To a question, the minister said the government had taken all protective measures to face any reaction from the miscreants.

Associated Press Of Pakistan ( Pakistan's Premier NEWS Agency )


????????????? are we being realistic
 
20 militants killed in forces drive in Swat

Updated : Friday May 15 , 2009 1:05:15 PM

MINGORA: At least 20 militants have been killed in the forces operation in Takhtaband area of Swat, while a key commander of militants has been arrested in Sultanos area of Buner.

The forces are targeting the hideouts of militants in Sultanos, Pir Baba and Shal Bandyi areas.

(Last updated at 1455 PST)

The miscreants tried to explode the Gaman Bridge in Lunda area of Swat destroying a portion of the bridge.

People fleeing in large number from the region and the provincial government and local welfare organizations were sending vehicles to the violence hit Dir and Swat to transport the people to safer places.

The forces have finalized preparations to launch operation against the militants in Mingoira.

The population of Hazara, Ali Grama and Gul Jabba has been directed to vacate the area.

Meanwhile, the forces have taken control of key points in Piochar area.


20 militants killed in forces drive in Swat,5/15/2009 3:38:10 PM
 
rokhanyousafzai

the weaponry and calling in of everyting we have for this offensive shows how serius they are about this correct me if im wrong but i dont think the indian army used its airpower to such an extent.

You are right. I agree. IA went in for a concept which I have elucidated earlier also, so am not going to get back into it.


now ur second point i dont blame u for because u havent been watching pakistani news channels either because u dont have access to or just dont watch them but the govt both regional and pak govt have planned for rebuilding to start as soon as its over.

Frankly, I have access to information that is better than feeds from either your networks or any international networks. I dont even take Indian networks seriously. So I do have some idea of what I am going on about.

Plans need funding, and the will to back the plans with adequate resources in a conducive and secure environment. The creation of a secure environment will entail massive employment of security forces to ensure that the gains made are not lost. As such that is an additional burden, something that might eat into your resource distribution in an overall picture. The pace of development has to be synergistic with aspirations of the local population which shall be tremendous as they shall struggle to get their lives back on track which will not give much time for necessary tasks to be initiated by GoP.


The latter paragraph may hold true in isolated pockets. And as such will refrain from debating that point.

Thanks
I think the govt knows all to well what will happen if adequate development and rebuilding will not take place and as for security Zardari has already before the operation has finished said that he wants 15000 police officers in swat and obviously there will be military for some time. While Gillani yesterday in parliament said that funds were being allocated for rebuilding swat

I bought the news thing up because alot of the international news dont cover it extensively for example aljazeera only talks about the displaced and dead militants wheraes for the pakistani channels they are airing everything senoiur politicians have to say

cheers
 
But the point to be noted is that the NATO is not fighting for their own nation ........ they are in a foreign territory where stakes are not that high.

but another point is that there is no dumping afghanistan so the stakes are very high also remembering that america cant leave defeated and give in to the 'islamic extremists' as they put it. The stakes are huge for pakistan but its also very important america succeeds for our sake and theirs. americas influence and govt influence outside of main cities does not exist so its completely different to pakistan and the taliban are still very strong so i dont think america is in a position to dictate to us
 
I think the govt knows all to well what will happen if adequate development and rebuilding will not take place and as for security Zardari has already before the operation has finished said that he wants 15000 police officers in swat and obviously there will be military for some time. While Gillani yesterday in parliament said that funds were being allocated for rebuilding swat

I bought the news thing up because alot of the international news dont cover it extensively for example aljazeera only talks about the displaced and dead militants wheraes for the pakistani channels they are airing everything senoiur politicians have to say

cheers

ya u r rit. and today members of parliment were debating on post operation strategy. which means they know that they will have to build schools etc after war is over.
 
ya u r rit. and today members of parliment were debating on post operation strategy. which means they know that they will have to build schools etc after war is over.

yea i think this is the news that is hard for our indian members to obtain because its always on pak channels non of the international channels air it but its positive and it shows that this op isnt from american pressure but infact had been planned by our leaders both pre and post op:cheers:
 

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