Operation Rah-e-Nijat (South Waziristan)

[BATMAN]

1.) Americans aren't alone in this nor our perceptions about you, 2.) we've a VERY LEGITIMATE U.N. mandate to be there and the invite of the afghan government

There is no legitimacy in illegal occupation. organ trade, druge trade and kidnapping of afghan children and sendin gthen to Pakistan.
What is the legitimacy of indian army in afghanistan. what is the legitimacy of imposed govt. of northern alliance?
Please show us the invite to prove your baseless claims. while you your self refuse to accept that US is supplying wepons, intelligence and money to TTP.

3.) when discussing legitimacy, let's not forget that Pakistan possesses no right to surreptiously support such a resistance in the face of a legitimate basis for the presence of such forces.

If US have the rights than Pakistan have 100 times more rights.
American is fighting indian proxy war against Pakistan by raising TTP who's end is near.

 

[iPhone]

"...expect more violence, terrorist attacks on innocents in Pakistan."

But your afghan taliban killing civilians in Afghanistan is perfectly acceptable to Pakistanis?

get the f*** outta here, my afghan taliban. They're not my afghan taliban, probably yours. Why would the killing of innocent anybody be acceptable to me or any Pakistani for that matter. What I stated was fact based on observation, violence in Pak will spike in the wake of operation in NWA. How does that imply in anyway that me or any other Pakistani is ok with violence in Afghan. If you have some anti-Pakistan issues then go f*** off or seek help and educate your own self, no one here or anywhere needs any lessons from you.

 

[iPhone]

Orakzai sealed ahead of operation

Dawn Report

Tuesday, 12 Jan, 2010

Troops have been deployed in the villages where tribesmen have extended support to the government against the militants.

KOHAT: A military operation in Orakzai Agency appeared imminent as authorities sealed off the region on Monday and moved security forces to key positions.


Official sources said that all routes to Orakzai Agency had been closed by establishing 18 checkposts manned by Frontier Corps.

so it's finally happening. Hopefully, this is where we'll dig the remaining graves of ttp and the final nail in ttp's coffin.

 

[Xeric]

Seen a battleplan that survives contact with the enemy?

No!

i definitely have heard and experienced: The first casualty on the battlefield dis the plan itself!!

But guess what, there's a different between tactics and strategy, tactics and battle-plans can go wrong, strategy cant, and if it does, you are screwed for guud! Which i think you are!

Wouldn't stop everyone of you from grabbing a pitchfork and running east if it were the Indians. Nope. Six months...a year, maybe to get it together and oust those scumoids.

Do doubt about that!

But unfortunately that was not the case.

And guess what, we didnt have 9/11 inside Pakistan nor we have a nation that would rush to hug the americans, we need more effort to convince them as compared to you people, where everyone is just ready to run over turbans and beards!!!

Eight years later tells me you WANT it this way. Tells the rest of the world the same thing.

No sir, you made it that way! Not our fault, you fcuked up big time unfortunately.

I recall that sanctuary was discussed by a lot of folks...and dismissed.

i agree, you are right, they did discuss and then dismissed, we'll that's what i call a FAILURE of strategy!

Were you people actually so lame? Didnt you learn anything from history when you left us after killing the Reds? You did learn from 'nam, didnt you?

Nobody in their right mind thought that Pakistan would turn on America for the sake of the Afghan taliban...

Yeah right!

You can do better than this, i know,

...but you clearly have done exactly that.

You are part and parcel of the deal, you made it happen, you initiated and you got to control and run it, not us!
We are just cleaning the mess created by you, thanks!
I'm still hopeful that might change.

It's a manifest fact. Look in the skies of FATA every single day. I DIDN'T say skies of Afghanistan, mind you. Now-you tell me...does the presence of our UCAVs over your head read like a "threat" or a "fact"?

Thanks.

Well, that's why i say, you still need to learn alot, or may be not? i tell you, you would screw up again like this and then you wont even have your a$$ to be used as a buffer!

Do you actually believe that these drones are doing more guud than bad?!

Why would it pinch you if we could make use of these UCAVs? Wouldnt that be easier, legalier, more fruitful and handy?

 

[Javed3]

S-2:

""The U.S. Army is in Afghanistan along with the forces of over forty other nations by mandate of the U.N.""

It’s pretty amusing! Don’t tell me that the US is in Afghanistan as mark of respect for the “Holy” UN resolutions on Afghanistan. The UN is the “Legitimacy Resolutions back office” of the US administration, which at times goes into Rapid Fire mode, sometimes spewing out 20 Resolutions a week on US directed **** and bull issues.

Why not accord such “Holy” status to its resolutions on Kashmir (1948), Palestine (1967 borders).

Why did the UN linger on for weeks on passing resolutions on the Israeli carnage in Lebanon and Gaza? Why didn’t the US consider it appropriate to send its forces to enforce the UN mandate?

You are apparently referring to the "Coalition of the willing"; generally classified into 4 categories:
1. Ideologically committed crusaders like UK and Australia who are too weak to do anything on their own, and need US firepower and logistics to settle historic scores with Muslims.
2. Beggar East European nations like Poland, Hungary who want to justify their existence as NATO members. Some like Georgia are aspiring members.
3. "Royal" NATO member states like Germany, France, Canada who wanna get away with minimum contributions as NATO members.
4. Downtrodden beggar nations like Fiji, Costa Rica where a few million $ of US aid really matters.

Most of the Coalition of the willing members constitutes camp followers, coolies, shoe shiners and masseuses of various denominations and capabilities and have no real material contribution to the war effort.

Bottom Line is that the US occupation of Afghanistan is illegal and immoral under whatever flimsy pretext..

 

[S-2]

"Most of the Coalition of the willing members constitutes camp followers, coolies, shoe shiners and masseuses of various denominations and capabilities and have no real material contribution to the war effort."

Tell that to the faces of those families whose "...shoe shiners..." sons and daughters have died for Afghanistan...if you've the guts.

"Bottom Line is that the US occupation of Afghanistan is illegal and immoral under whatever flimsy pretext.."

U.N. mandate. Over forty nations.

Flimsy pretext indeed.

And you?

What legal basis, again, justifies the harboring of an ousted, fugitive and illegal unelected foreign government conducting an externally-directed insurgency from Pakistani lands?

And how many countries have you got lined up with you on that again?

It's the afghan taliban and Pakistan against the rest of mankind on this one.

Afghanistan Poll 2010-ABC/BBC/ARD

Question #17 should help you immensely if you're sufficiently open-minded enough to read.

Now don't you have a demonstration to make in Wooton-Bassett?

Thanks.

 

[Xeric]

Tell that to the faces of those families whose "...shoe shiners..." sons and daughters have died for Afghanistan...if you've the guts.

Ok, so now you would play the emotions card?

What do you think of those who are killed by your drones? Before you get confused let me clear this up; i am talking of those innocents who are slaughtered while you try hitting HVTs!

 

[Javed3]

Dear S-2:

“”I recall that sanctuary was discussed by a lot of folks...and dismissed. Nobody in their right mind thought that Pakistan would turn on America for the sake of the Afghan taliban...””

‘’ It's a manifest fact. Look in the skies of FATA every single day. I DIDN'T say skies of Afghanistan, mind you. Now-you tell me...does the presence of our UCAVs over your head read like a "threat" or a "fact"?’’

The US has survived for eight (8) years in Afghanistan due to active support by Pakistan Government and the Army.

If Pakistan had stayed neutral the US would have sustained debilitating casualties in Afghanistan by now.

If Pakistan was “slightly hostile” as inferred in your article, the US would have not entered Afghanistan in the first place. And in the event it somehow did make it, it would have declared “Victory” as far back as 2003 and buggered the hell out of the region.

Your UCAV’s (MQ-1 / 9) can operate only with the blessings and tacit connivance of Pak Government and the Army. They would not last 5 minutes in a hostile airspace.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Tell that to the faces of those families whose "...shoe shiners..." sons and daughters have died for Afghanistan...if you've the guts.

Ok, so now you would play the emotions card?

What do you think of those who are killed by your drones? Before you get confused let me clear this up; i am talking of those innocents who are slaughtered while you try hitting HVTs!

He always uses the emotional card, as if we have not lost a single soldier, civilian, children, women and elderly.

It seems to him only the occupiers soldiers are dear and human like, else on this side of the border are not worth being called a human.

 

[S-2]

"Ok, so now you would play the emotions card?"

I take offense to misrepresentation of soldiers. Don't you? Were I to suggest the same of those from your army being masseusses, shoeshiners, and coolies, I wouldn't last long here, would I?

"What do you think of those who are killed by your drones? Before you get confused let me clear this up; i am talking of those innocents who are slaughtered while you try hitting HVTs!"

Met any? Travelled to FATA lately to confirm the collateral deaths? How do you even really KNOW except to rely upon your pre-conceived beliefs?

Meanwhile, where's your concern for the Afghan innocents slaughtered daily by those whom you harbor on your lands? Unlike you, I can provide a boatload of data.

Despite our fire-power crazed western armies, the taliban are KILLING afghans at a pace of 2:1 compared to ISAF. Nobody has yet accused ISAF of intentionally targeting Afghan civilians. Not even here. Not even YOU.

U.N.A.M.A. has accused the afghan taliban of exactly that, however. Read-

Mid-Year Bulletin On Protection Of Civilians In Armed Conflict-July 2009 UNAMA

Trend #4.-

"...In the first six months of 2009, 59% of civilians were killed by AGEs [Anti-Government Elements] and 30.5% by PGF[Pro-Government Forces]..."

Trend #9.-"A continuing trend seen through 2008 and into the first six months of 2009 is that AGE tacticshave shifted, from frontal or ambush attacks on PGF, to insurgent or guerrilla type activities,including asymmetric attacks such as IEDs, VBIEDs, BBIEDs, (that remain responsible forthe largest number of civilian deaths), and targeted assassinations.

Trend #10. Between January and June 2009, 595 civilian deaths were attributed to AGE activities; 400 ofthose deaths were the result of indiscriminate IED and suicide attacks. This represents 67% ofall deaths attributable to AGEs, or 39.5% of the total 1013 civilians killed in the first half of2009. AGE operations are frequently undertaken regardless of the impact on civilians in termsof deaths and injuries or destruction of civilian infrastructure. Based on investigation ofspecific incidents conducted by UNAMA Human Rights, information suggests that AGEs arebasing themselves in civilian areas so as to deliberately blur the distinction betweencombatants and civilians, and as part of what appears to be an active policy aimed at drawinga military response to areas where there is a high likelihood that civilians will be killed orinjured. Also of great concern to UNAMA Human Rights, is the frequency by which AGEsconduct attacks in, or against, civilian locations. UNAMA Human Rights continues todocument IED attacks carried out on roads used by civilian traffic, residential compounds,and market places. In some areas, UNAMA Human Rights has also noted targetedassassinations of civilians through the use of IEDs, particularly in the South-East."

Or if historical foundations are important, view what Human Rights Watch had to say on this matter in April 2007. Targeted attacks. Acid sprayings. Human shields-

The Human Cost: The Consequences Of Insurgent Attacks On Afghan Civilians- HRW April 2007

Xeric, it really is upsetting that nobody aside from myself seems to produce INFORMATION and DATA that's useful and relevant.

Most of you here actually haven't a CLUE what's happening on your own tribal lands other than what the taliban tell you. NOBODY produces any parallel data to reflect your contentions. NONE.

Got a link for me, do you?

Meanwhile, I'll re-iterate that we will do the best we can to defend ourselves from attacks eminating from your lands. We consider your sovereignty in those areas null and void in the absence of pro-active measures designed to eliminate this problem of yours.

In short, too bad if you can't control your own space at the expense and pain of your neighbors.

I'll look forward to sources equal or better than mine...about the time, of course, that hell freezes over.

Thanks.

 

[S-2]

"The US has survived for eight (8) years in Afghanistan due to active support by Pakistan Government and the Army."

Odd that we managed to survive in Iraq without any assistance from you at all. However, please explain that "active assistance"? I've yet to see ONE attack against those groupings of Haqqani, Hekmatyar, Omar, or your own fcukin' citizens- Maulvi Nazir and Hafez Gul Bahadur by your army.

Not one. Active assistance indeed.

It wasn't until last May that you actively assisted saving yourselves from yourselves in SWAT and Buner.

"If Pakistan had stayed neutral the US would have sustained debilitating casualties in Afghanistan by now."

And "debilitating" is defined by you how, exactly Mr. Military Expert?

"If Pakistan was “slightly hostile” as inferred in your article, the US would have not entered Afghanistan in the first place."

Oh really? Based upon what, exactly, that was going to keep us from making war on Afghanistan as we saw necessary?

"And in the event it somehow did make it, it would have declared “Victory” as far back as 2003 and buggered the hell out of the region."

Why 2003? Something special about then?

"Your UCAV’s (MQ-1 / 9) can operate only with the blessings and tacit connivance of Pak Government and the Army. They would not last 5 minutes in a hostile airspace."

Absolutely correct. In the absence of that blessing, I can easily imagine other assets that could and would replace our UCAVs. Those UCAVs are our weapon of choice for a variety of reasons-primarily discrete, precise, and lethal.

That can easily change.

Feel free to attack them and make your intentions clear. I can easily see strike packages being flown with escort if deemed necessary. It wouldn't be the first time in recent history that we've successfully penetrated a hostile airspace.

Thanks.

 

[Javed3]

S-2:

“”Tell that to the faces of those families whose "...shoe shiners..." sons and daughters have died for Afghanistan...if you've the guts””

My heart felt sympathies go out to the bereaved families who lost their dear ones while serving as camp followers to a Nazi like Army of occupation in a distant land; for an absolutely evil and pointless cause. Also convey my heartfelt sympathies for the kith and kin of:
(a) More than 2 million Innocent Wehrmatcht and Waffen-SS soldiers died while establishing Nazi control over the Stalingrad Salient.
(b) The estimated 3000 Japanese Imperial Army soldiers who died while establishing law and order during the Rape of Nanjing circa 1933.
(c) The 58,000 Brave US soldiers who died in Vietnam, never mind they butchered close to about 3 million Vietnamese.


“”U.N. mandate. Over forty nations. Flimsy pretext indeed.”

Its only ONE nation, not forty. A Mafia chief can garner the votes of all his employees with no questions asked!.

You are trying to prove that somehow the UN Resolutions have a revered or Holy status? Why don’t you move with the same enthusiasm in context of Kashmir and Palestine?

And by the way, the Fake Survey you posted is based on a sample size of 1500 “Benign” Afghans from “benign to friendly” district. Try and hold a sample poll in Asadabad or Angor Adda and you will see your statistics skewing into a Poission Distribution.

 

[Xeric]

I take offense to misrepresentation of soldiers. Don't you? Were I to suggest the same of those from your army being masseusses, shoeshiners, and coolies, I wouldn't last long here, would I?

And the emotional blackmail continues.....


Met any? Travelled to FATA lately to confirm the collateral deaths? How do you even really KNOW except to rely upon your pre-conceived beliefs?

Meanwhile, where's your concern for the Afghan innocents slaughtered daily by those whom you harbor on your lands? Unlike you, I can provide a boatload of data.

So you want to tell us that till today NO ONE innocent has been killed by your predator strikes??

i think i live in that country where you so aggressively and proudly 'target' your enemy!!

And S-2, you need to work harder to make me speak

 

[S-2]

"And by the way, the Fake Survey you posted is based on a sample size of 1500 “Benign” Afghans from “benign to friendly” district. Try and hold a sample poll in Asadabad or Angor Adda and you will see your statistics skewing into a Poission Distribution. "

How do you know that they didn't. Where in Konar do you think they went? Wanat? All 34 provinces. +/- 3%.

"The poll was commissioned by the BBC, ABC News and ARD of Germany. It was conducted by the US pollsters D-3 Systems. The fieldwork was carried out by the Afghan Centre for Socio-Economic and Opinion Research in Kabul.

Face-to-face interviews were carried out with 1,534 Afghans in all of the country's 34 provinces between 11 and 23 December 2009. The margin of error is +/– 3%.

This is the fifth such BBC/ABC/ARD poll in the country, following the first news-sponsored survey ever conducted in Afghanistan at the end of 2005, a second at the end of 2006 a third at the end of 2007 and a fourth in February 2009."

And your samplings, Javed3?

Ah...I thought so.

You're proved a worthless debate. Full of hyperbole, devoid of data. Welcome to my "ignore" list.

Now go back and slag some dead shoeshiners, coolies, and masseusses arriving at Wooton-Bassett, if you don't mind as I'm done with your irrelevant soul.

Thanks.

 

[Javed3]

S-2:

“”Odd that we managed to survive in Iraq without any assistance from you at all””
No you did not survive in Iraq. You managed to extricate yourself through one of the most humiliating capitulations to Iran. Mr Zalmay Khalilzad brokered a compromise in 2007 through which Mr Noor Al Maliki was appointed PM, after having held an Iranian passport for Nine Years!. The “Surge” story, and how effective it really was for Public Consumption and US TV channels.


“”And "debilitating" is defined by you how, exactly Mr. Military Expert?””
With due reverence to your credentials as S-2 to Special Forces, Delta Force, SEALS, USMC and the rest of Hollywood, I have no military background . Debilitating means enough body bags to rekindle the memories of Vietnam and pull the American nation out of power drunk stupor.

“”Oh really? Based upon what that was going to keep us from making war on Afghanistan as we saw necessary.””
No real logistics facilities or ports to handle heavy throughput. You just could not afford the casualties to cross 600 kms of Pakistani territory to move into Afghanistan. All you could have possibly managed was a few air strikes using B-2’s. F/A-18’s operating for 2 carrier groups.

“”Why 2003? Something special about then?””
By then the hangover from the night before would have set in.

“”Those UCAVs are our weapon of choice for a variety of reasons-primarily discrete, precise, and lethal.””
You can try your luck with “Vulgar and in-your-face” assets. You tried them with impunity in Iraq, Afghanistan and former Yugoslavia. But Pakistan is a bit different; its nasty bite can be pretty bad for your well being.

As for the “Escorts”, you are an S-2 and should be familiar with how an ATO is generated involving multiple refueling over Pakistan Air Space.

And please do not forget that escalation in regional context comes at a great price.

You guys found the easy way out, General Money! I have just One grouse … you are are so pitiably Stingy.