Operation Rah-e-Nijat (South Waziristan)

[PostColonial]

Why are we even arguing about strategic depth? Its a well known policy of Pakistan, written about by numerous Pakistani and non-Pakistani authors, journalists, and think-tanks:

Pakistan's Strategic Vision: With and Without the Taliban - Brookings Institution

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Frontline Pakistan: The Struggle ... - Google Books

Pakistan and the emergence of ... - Google Books

Taliban: Islam, oil and the new ... - Google Books

So please, quit bluffing.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Comments from Maj. Gen. Mike Flynn, director of intelligence for Gen. Stanley McChrystal’s headquarters on the Afghan and Pakistani Taliban dynamics - not sure if they have been posted before, and an interesting interview overall.

Flynn distinguished between “the Afghan Taliban,” including those crossing into Afghanistan from bases in Pakistan’s Federally Administered Tribal Areas, and “the Pakistani Taliban,” who also operate from the FATA, but aim most of their attacks at Pakistani targets. Pakistani security forces “generally don’t mess with” the Afghan Taliban, “because they’re not the ones killing a hundred people and wounding 150 in Peshawar,” he said.

“The TTP [Tarik-e-Taliban Pakistan], led by Hekmatullah Mehsud, is doing that. That’s the Pakistani Taliban. Now, does Hekmatullah Mehsud’s group provide fighters that fight in Afghanistan? The answer’s probably yes. In fact it is yes. It’s ‘go up there and get your battle stripes, get your combat patch, but come back, because we have a job to do here in Pakistan.’ ”

That sort of coordination between armed Islamist groups has Flynn worried.

“They’re coordinating enough today that I believe this expansion of the Islamic extremist movement, particularly in this region, is to the point where it’s the worst I’ve seen it, [and] the coordination amongst those groups is the best I’ve seen it,” he said, adding that the groups share common strategic goals. “The common goals are to create an Islamic state and to rid the region of the un-Islamic enemies, and particularly in Afghanistan it’s the international community that’s here, certainly the Americans,” he said.
Afghanistan insurgency has grown 10-fold - Air Force News, news from Iraq - Air Force Times

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

taimikhan's explanation of strategic depth is correct. It is not about a final redoubt but, instead, space denial to avoid a perceived double envelopment.

I agree - but beyond the language he used, are his views any different from mine on the issue?

Or was that not your intent?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Why are we even arguing about strategic depth? Its a well known policy of Pakistan, written about by numerous Pakistani and non-Pakistani authors, journalists, and think-tanks:

Pakistan's Strategic Vision: With and Without the Taliban - Brookings Institution

This article is actually quite interesting (and written ostensibly by an Indian to boot!) and despite the occasional unexplained 'Strategic depth' phrase thrown in there, it largely describes Pakistan's strategic goals in Afghanistan, including the decision to support the Taliban, in the context of leveraging the natural resources of the CAR's and stabilizing Afghanistan. That is pretty much what I said, so what exactly is this 'bluffing' you talk about?

 

[PostColonial]

Oh, and what about the other sources that I gave? Did you conveniently pick one to suit your retort?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Oh, and what about the other sources that I gave? Did you conveniently pick one to suit your retort?

I am not a PC you know - reading data and digesting it takes time. I had the time to read the first link yo provided and commented on that.

I'll get to the rest later if I have time.

It would also help if you posted the relevant excerpts from those links.

 

[PostColonial]

^Then you could have gone through them all before replying.

Comeon Mr. Agnostic. Atleast try not to be disingenuous.

 

[S-2]

"...Or was that not your intent?"

Correct. It was not my intent. You are in accord with taimikhan.

Very worthy read, btw, from General Flynn. Naylor, the correspondent, was the writer of "Not A Good Day To Die" which is very recommended reading IMV.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

DERA ISMAIL KHAN, Pakistan – The leader of the Pakistani Taliban urged his fighters to stand fast against a military offensive in tribal South Waziristan, warning them in an intercepted message obtained Thursday that cowards will go to hell.

Pakistani forces launched an offensive in mid-October to crush the Taliban in the semiautonomous region along the Afghan border that is believed to be the main stronghold of the militants and their al-Qaida allies.

"Remember this is the commandment of God that once fighting starts with the enemy, you cannot leave the battlefield without permission from your commander, and don't look for excuses to run away from the fighting," Hakimullah Mehsud told his followers in a speech Tuesday broadcast over a wireless radio network. Of those who do run away, he warned, "Such people will go to hell."
-----------------------

haha..poor guy. His not so holy warriors are running like chickens! He forgot to mention that those staying on the battlefield will go to hell a lot quicker..lol

Glad to see the PA really taking the gloves off and kicking some TTP ***!

 

[waraich66]

DERA ISMAIL KHAN, Pakistan – The leader of the Pakistani Taliban urged his fighters to stand fast against a military offensive in tribal South Waziristan, warning them in an intercepted message obtained Thursday that cowards will go to hell.

Pakistani forces launched an offensive in mid-October to crush the Taliban in the semiautonomous region along the Afghan border that is believed to be the main stronghold of the militants and their al-Qaida allies.

"Remember this is the commandment of God that once fighting starts with the enemy, you cannot leave the battlefield without permission from your commander, and don't look for excuses to run away from the fighting," Hakimullah Mehsud told his followers in a speech Tuesday broadcast over a wireless radio network. Of those who do run away, he warned, "Such people will go to hell."
-----------------------

haha..poor guy. His not so holy warriors are running away like chickens! He forgot to mention that those staying on the battlefield will go to hell a lot quicker..lol

Glad to see the PA really taking the gloves off and kicking some TTP ***!

This is gurrilla war , hit and run will be their strategy. They can not face the fire power of PA.

Real war will start now and may continue for many years as we have seen in Afghanistan.

 

[TaimiKhan]

DERA ISMAIL KHAN, Pakistan – The leader of the Pakistani Taliban urged his fighters to stand fast against a military offensive in tribal South Waziristan, warning them in an intercepted message obtained Thursday that cowards will go to hell.

Pakistani forces launched an offensive in mid-October to crush the Taliban in the semiautonomous region along the Afghan border that is believed to be the main stronghold of the militants and their al-Qaida allies.

"Remember this is the commandment of God that once fighting starts with the enemy, you cannot leave the battlefield without permission from your commander, and don't look for excuses to run away from the fighting," Hakimullah Mehsud told his followers in a speech Tuesday broadcast over a wireless radio network. Of those who do run away, he warned, "Such people will go to hell."
-----------------------

haha..poor guy. His not so holy warriors are running away like chickens! He forgot to mention that those staying on the battlefield will go to hell a lot quicker..lol

Glad to see the PA really taking the gloves off and kicking some TTP ***!

People when i hear say that hit & run tactics would now be utilized by the militants, if that is so then why is HM asking his fighters to stand fast and face PA, he should be asking them to run like hell and then do hit & runs, plus from where are they gonna do hit and run if they don't have place to stay, regroup, get equipment, get rations ???

Peoples imagination at its best.

Swat is the perfect place for a guerrilla warfare, as it has mountains filled with lush greenery, perfect place to hide, do hit & run attacks, but i don't see any happening, why is that so ?? Because they have been denied public support, they have no place to stay and live, regroup, their large portion of weapons getting in the hands of PA, many commanders killed or ran away, so with all these factors who can do hit and run attacks.

Same can happen in SW, we deny all these things to them, after securing the captured villages, towns and getting people back in, get the civil govt up and running, bring in FC and levies and then PA goes after them in the mountains and deny them as much space as possible.

 

[TaimiKhan]

No 466/2009-ISPR Dated: November 5, 2009
Rawalpindi - November 5, 2009:

1. South Waziristan - Operation Rah-e-Nijat

a. In last 24 hours, 28 terrorists have been killed while 5 were apprehended. Security forces losses are 5 soldiers including an officer embraced shahadat and 2 injured. Details of operations are as follows:-

(1) On Jandola – Sararogha Axis. Security forces consolidating their positions at area around on the peaks in the area. During clearance operation, 5 soldiers including an officer embraced shahadat and 2 were injured in a blast in Sararogha. During encounter 16 terrorists were killed and 5 were apprehended.

(2) On Shakai – Kaniguram Axis

(a) Security forces have secured LADHA Fort and north east area of Shashak and cleared area Bangel Khel. Area around road Asman Manza up to Gadawai has been cleared and consolidation of positions is under process.

(b) Terrorists fired rockets at Mangora Sar and Ghundai Gar. During encounter 7 terrorists were killed.

(3) On Razmak- Makeen Axis

(a) Security forces conducted house to house search and clearance operation in area around Spin Qamar, Wucha Kauna Algad and Lugar Manza.

(b) Clearance and search operation is under process at China.

(c) Terrorists fired with small arms at Litta Sar. During encounter 5 terrorists were killed.

(d) Following arms and ammunitions have been recovered by the security forces from Razmak- Makeen axis:-

(i) 900 x Rounds of 12.5 mm.
(ii) 625 x Rounds of Small Machine Gun.
(iii) 960 x Rounds of Rifle 303
(iv) 2 x Rifle 7mm.
(v) 1 x Rifle 12 Bore.
(vi) 3 x Grenades.
(vii) 2 x Rockets of 107 mm along with 2 x Rockets of RPG-7
(viii) 1 x Anti Personnel Mine (APM)

2. Swat – Malakand – Operation Rah-e-Rast

a. Security forces during search operation at village Pir Patai near Fathepur and apprehended 5 relatives of local terrorist commander Ali Rehman alias Sparay.

b. 5 terrorists voluntarily surrendered themselves to security forces at Shin near Fathepur and Shakardara.

c. 4 terrorists voluntarily surrendered themselves to security forces at Salhand and Mingora.

3. Relief Activities

a. 9 trucks carrying mix rations from Army have been distributed amongst the displaced families of Waziristan.

b. 7,641 cash cards have been distributed amongst the displaced families of Waziristan.

---------------------------------------------------

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

People when i hear say that hit & run tactics would now be utilized by the militants, if that is so then why is HM asking his fighters to stand fast and face PA, he should be asking them to run like hell and then do hit & runs, plus from where are they gonna do hit and run if they don't have place to stay, regroup, get equipment, get rations ???

Peoples imagination at its best.

Swat is the perfect place for a guerrilla warfare, as it has mountains filled with lush greenery, perfect place to hide, do hit & run attacks, but i don't see any happening, why is that so ?? Because they have been denied public support, they have no place to stay and live, regroup, their large portion of weapons getting in the hands of PA, many commanders killed or ran away, so with all these factors who can do hit and run attacks.

Same can happen in SW, we deny all these things to them, after securing the captured villages, towns and getting people back in, get the civil govt up and running, bring in FC and levies and then PA goes after them in the mountains and deny them as much space as possible.

I largely agree, but I do think that the task will be somewhat harder than the one in Swat because I do not see the same level of local support from the populace in SW, at least not immediately. By that I do not mean that the locals will actively support the Taliban, but that they may choose to remain 'neutral' for a while after they return, despite the Taliban having been beaten militarily.

Sustaining peace in SW is going to depend on reconstruction and creation/recreation of economic opportunities a lot more than Swat - and it is possibly the latter that is causing the political/military leadership to debate the opening of the Gomal-Zam road to bypass the Mehsud areas (as suggested in the article from Dawn) - in fact we would want as much traffic and direct and indirect economic activity from that traffic to give the Mehsud a stake in peace and cooperation against militants.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

^Then you could have gone through them all before replying.

Comeon Mr. Agnostic. Atleast try not to be disingenuous.

I specifically mentioned to you that I was responding to the first link you posted - where is the disingenuity in that?

Would you mind posting the relevant excerpts from those links, assuming you have read them?

I am skeptical since you appear to have had no idea what the piece in the first link talked about, and posted it support your contention that I was 'bluffing'.

 

[air marshal]