Operation Rah-e-Nijat (South Waziristan)

[TaimiKhan]

Have reinforcements (divisions) been brought in from outside NWFP? Last one heard, only the ones in Kohat and Peshawar have been moved. How true is that?

Looking at the maps, it struck that the army is operating in a very limited area in the northern part of South Waziristan. Why is this so? Also when the army says it is fighting the Taliban and trying to regain "hold" of South Waziristan, what all areas are we looking at? How many tehsils/districts are under the Taliban... how many of those are is the PA fighting in?

Yups, some formations have been moved to SW, some are from the division based in Kohat, other from outside. Peshawar div formations are deployed on the other sector.

The operation is specifically targeting the TTP stronghold which are the area of domain of the Mehsud tribe, kind of a triangular area.

The other areas left are of the Wazir tribe in SW, they start from the Wana area and moving along the border with Afghanistan goes towards the NW area. Mehsud tribe is surrounded on one side by the wazir tribe area and from the other side by the Bittani tribe.

PA has neutralized the Wazir tribe taliban from supporting the Mehsud tribe, they both do have an old rivalry, the last alliance was also brought between them mostly by the AQ people & Afghan Taliban commanders, rather whenever any alliance has become between them, it has been influenced by the mentioned groups. These two tribes otherwise don't go along well with each other.

Taliban are present in the other areas too, in SW & NW both, but PA & FC do hold considerable ground & have presence in major villages & towns, but the PA or FC had no presence in the Mehsud area villages & towns for past some years.

Also the operation is directed at this specific area as it was in total control of TTP & maximum foreign militants were given refugee by BM & HM in this area & it was the base for launching of all the operations against PA & inside Pakistan.

On the other hand the wazir tribe & the Afghan Taliban living in the wazir tribe dominating area do not wish to fight the PA until provoked or out of frustration have to, they are more focused towards Afghanistan, while the BM & HM TTP was specifically Pakistan oriented & they had no other goal other then to attack PA & activities inside Pakistan.

 

[Elmo]

Yups, some formations have been moved to SW, some are from the division based in Kohat, other from outside. Peshawar div formations are deployed on the other sector.

The operation is specifically targeting the TTP stronghold which are the area of domain of the Mehsud tribe, kind of a triangular area.

The other areas left are of the Wazir tribe in SW, they start from the Wana area and moving along the border with Afghanistan goes towards the NW area. Mehsud tribe is surrounded on one side by the wazir tribe area and from the other side by the Bittani tribe.

Also the operation is directed at this specific area as it was in total control of TTP & maximum foreign militants were given refugee by BM & HM in this area & it was the base for launching of all the operations against PA & inside Pakistan.
.

When you talk of outside... you mean the eastern front? There are some articles that say that sufficient personnel have not been deployed for the "attack" phase of the operation; that only two divisions that were already in NWFP have been moved, and the divisions' original posts are not backed. (DG ISPR was quoted as saying that they have moved at least one division from Peshawar... don't know about the sectors though.)


The Bhittanis are primarily on the strip of the border with DI Khan and Tank. The Wazirs are said to be on the border with Afghanistan. A large swathe is with the Mehsuds. That much one gets from the map.... but what all tehsils of the Sarwakai, Ladha and Wana divisions are being targeted. The PA nor the state has no control of Wana.... why isn't that being focused on?

Reason for asking being that even with the earlier operations in Mohmand and Bajaur, they operated in 3-4 tehsils out of say 7-8 tehsils and could only completely flush out militants from 1-2. The PA still faced resistance in many Taliban-infested areas and the army operations could not be called off for months.


Wondering, could we have a tehsil-by-tehsil breakdown of the state-controlled and the Taliban-controlled areas?

 

[TaimiKhan]

When you talk of outside... you mean the eastern front? There are some articles that say that sufficient personnel have not been deployed for the "attack" phase of the operation; that only two divisions that were already in NWFP have been moved, and the divisions' original posts are not backed. (DG ISPR was quoted as saying that they have moved at least one division from Peshawar... don't know about the sectors though.)

Peshawar based div is engaged in Khyber, Darra, Orakzai,Mohmand, Bajaur etc etc areas.

Kohat based div is engaged in Darra,Kurram,Bannu, North Waziristan & some in SW. Formations have been deployed as per need basis.

In Rah e Rast Operation, most of the fighting formations were brought from the reserve formations in Punjab.

Similarly, the majority of the formations in Operation Rah e Nijat have been brought from the reserve formations in Punjab too.

In both operations different formations from different places have been brought such that they can easily be redeployed to their respective areas on the eastern front if a situation arises. But they all have been put under the Peshawar Corps.

The Bhittanis are primarily on the strip of the border with DI Khan and Tank. The Wazirs are said to be on the border with Afghanistan. A large swathe is with the Mehsuds. That much one gets from the map.... but what all tehsils of the Sarwakai, Ladha and Wana divisions are being targeted. The PA nor the state has no control of Wana.... why isn't that being focused on?

The majority is of Wazir tribe who are in the SW area on the border with Afghanistan & NW has wazir & daur tribes in majority. Mehsud tribe has not a huge part of the agency. They are sandwiched in between. i don't know who told u that wana is not with PA or govt, PA is advancing from the wana direction towards the Mehsud area, wana is a wazir tribe domian & out of the two wazir commanders with whom deal has been set, one is based in wana & the other in NW. If you look at the map, the major mehsud controlled towns are visible & they are the ones which are to be captured as in this area there was no control, as said PA is stationed in nearly all the major towns of the wazir tribe controlled area & NWA. Wana is in control that is why it is not being focused on. Wana town has always been in govt control, its the surrounding areas which had seen fighting before.

Reason for asking being that even with the earlier operations in Mohmand and Bajaur, they operated in 3-4 tehsils out of say 7-8 tehsils and could only completely flush out militants from 1-2. The PA still faced resistance in many Taliban-infested areas and the army operations could not be called off for months.

The resistance being faced in Mohmand & Bajaur has been mostly from the areas which are very hilly terrain with border to Afghanistan, one reason that these areas not been fully controlled is that its very hard to go as just a couple of roads lead to it, which are very narrow & can easily be blocked with ambushes & the militants cross the border when army gets into action & gets near to them or when air power or artillery is used & as now there is no major offensive in these area, they are again attacking army by crossing the border back. So this is one major issue. But hopefully it will be taken care in future too.

Wondering, could we have a tehsil-by-tehsil breakdown of the state-controlled and the Taliban-controlled areas?

Mehsud controlled area was totally controlled by the TTP for past some years, FC had some presence in some towns but after some major fighting launched by the TTP, FC left those towns, all the major town names that you hear where they are targeting them or which have been captured were not controlled by govt. As for NWA, PA & FC & govt functions are there is nearly all the major towns, in SWA wazir dominated area towns also are under govt control.

 

[Elmo]

Peshawar based div is engaged in Khyber, Darra, Orakzai,Mohmand, Bajaur etc etc areas.

Kohat based div is engaged in Darra,Kurram,Bannu, North Waziristan & some in SW. Formations have been deployed as per need basis.

In Rah e Rast Operation, most of the fighting formations were brought from the reserve formations in Punjab.

Similarly, the majority of the formations in Operation Rah e Nijat have been brought from the reserve formations in Punjab too.

In both operations different formations from different places have been brought such that they can easily be redeployed to their respective areas on the eastern front if a situation arises. But they all have been put under the Peshawar Corps. .

Thanks a bunch!

i don't know who told u that wana is not with PA or govt, PA is advancing from the wana direction towards the Mehsud area, wana is a wazir tribe domian & out of the two wazir commanders with whom deal has been set, one is based in wana & the other in NW.

ISPR had said that in the middle of rah-e-rast somewhere!

Mehsud controlled area was totally controlled by the TTP for past some years, FC had some presence in some towns but after some major fighting launched by the TTP, FC left those towns, all the major town names that you hear where they are targeting them or which have been captured were not controlled by govt. As for NWA, PA & FC & govt functions are there is nearly all the major towns, in SWA wazir dominated area towns also are under govt control.

Thanks again. Know about the situation in NWA but I guess only the army can tell how many tehsils are involved in SWA... major towns can be two in one tehsil. As the news comes by. (hat I wanted actually was if someone could keep a track... like army went into XYZ tehsils, completely cleared ABC, still fighting in LMN, and unsucessful in PQR. Sort of a daily keeper. There are way too many ISPR press-releases that are inconsistent at times when one looks at the progression of army. But that's just an idea.)

 

[TaimiKhan]

Thanks again. Know about the situation in NWA but I guess only the army can tell how many tehsils are involved in SWA... major towns can be two in one tehsil. As the news comes by. (hat I wanted actually was if someone could keep a track... like army went into XYZ tehsils, completely cleared ABC, still fighting in LMN, and unsucessful in PQR. Sort of a daily keeper. There are way too many ISPR press-releases that are inconsistent at times when one looks at the progression of army. But that's just an idea.)

Right now such information can't be given reason being the current stage of the operation is not about clearing the tehsil, its right now clearing the roads, the nearby area to the roads, capturing the high peaks overlooking the roads, capturing the major villages & towns & forward movement towards the objectives. Think it as a triangle, on the upper side is Razmak, on the lower left is wana & lower right is jandola. Army is moving from three directions, its basically a triangle is you see the area, and all the major objectives are on the lines which connect the three dots of the triangle. The ISPR releases are a little bit confusing as many people don't know what is happening on the ground or what is the layout of the area of operations. Army is moving from three sides, troops from razmak have their own objectives,main would be Makeen for them, Jandola troops have sararogha as main objective, similarly troops from wana also have i believe 2 major towns to capture. Ladha is to be seen as its nearly in the middle. Once this stage of operations, the capturing of major villages & towns is achieved, major high peaks captured, then army will start moving to the smaller objectives and then we will be haring which tehsil got fully secured. Same like Swat, multiple side pincer movements, secure the supply line, capture major heights, clean the area captured, then slowly move out to the other parts of the area. Once army captured major towns, people will be back, FC will be put to monitor it, local lashkars would be tried & army will move to the parts where the possibility of the militants hiding are identified.

 

[Elmo]

Right now such information can't be given reason being the current stage of the operation is not about clearing the tehsil, its right now clearing the roads, the nearby area to the roads, capturing the high peaks overlooking the roads, capturing the major villages & towns & forward movement towards the objectives. Think it as a triangle, on the upper side is Razmak, on the lower left is wana & lower right is jandola. Army is moving from three directions, its basically a triangle is you see the area, and all the major objectives are on the lines which connect the three dots of the triangle. The ISPR releases are a little bit confusing as many people don't know what is happening on the ground or what is the layout of the area of operations. Army is moving from three sides, troops from razmak have their own objectives,main would be Makeen for them, Jandola troops have sararogha as main objective, similarly troops from wana also have i believe 2 major towns to capture. Ladha is to be seen as its nearly in the middle. Once this stage of operations, the capturing of major villages & towns is achieved, major high peaks captured, then army will start moving to the smaller objectives and then we will be haring which tehsil got fully secured. Same like Swat, multiple side pincer movements, secure the supply line, capture major heights, clean the area captured, then slowly move out to the other parts of the area. Once army captured major towns, people will be back, FC will be put to monitor it, local lashkars would be tried & army will move to the parts where the possibility of the militants hiding are identified.

I have seen the maps, except they show very little. They have razmak, sararogha, wana, makeen, kotkai etc jotted out but no real-time information. How many kilometres moved in etc.


Do you agree with the way this operation is being conducted tactically? The three-pronged approach specifically.

Because so far what one has read and heard, many security analysts aren't happy with it. They say that by not securing the heights first and moving outwards --- in contrast to the current strategcy of moving inwards and converging at some point --- the militants have been given ample time to escape and merge with the population. Similar approach was applied in Malakand Division where it is said that a large number of insurgents went underground/escaped. Now there is a resurgence in their activity (i know COIN takes years but the initial hit is supposed to do most of the damage control). Should the army had rather landed its troops on heights and secured the tops first before descending into the valleys?

 

[Elmo]

Once army captured major towns, people will be back, FC will be put to monitor it, local lashkars would be tried & army will move to the parts where the possibility of the militants hiding are identified.

As much as we want these people to be self-reliant one would not go for establishing lashkars in these areas. It's not about guilt by association but let's admit it most of the Mehsud tribesmen are Taliban. When the army moves in and phases out, it can't be expected that these people change their allegiances overnight. The same people they fought alongside with, tomorrow they are helping the state capture them. It can't be this hunky-dory.

 

[kidwaibhai]

As much as we want these people to be self-reliant one would not go for establishing lashkars in these areas. It's not about guilt by association but let's admit it most of the Mehsud tribesmen are Taliban. When the army moves in and phases out, it can't be expected that these people change their allegiances overnight. The same people they fought alongside with, tomorrow they are helping the state capture them. It can't be this hunky-dory.

i disagree most of these are with the taliban because if they dont their families will be killed and they will be brutally murdered. Once they realise that the pakistani army is here to stay they will work with the army just as the people did is Sawat.

 

[TaimiKhan]

I have seen the maps, except they show very little. They have razmak, sararogha, wana, makeen, kotkai etc jotted out but no real-time information. How many kilometres moved in etc.

Do you agree with the way this operation is being conducted tactically? The three-pronged approach specifically.

Because so far what one has read and heard, many security analysts aren't happy with it. They say that by not securing the heights first and moving outwards --- in contrast to the current strategcy of moving inwards and converging at some point --- the militants have been given ample time to escape and merge with the population. Similar approach was applied in Malakand Division where it is said that a large number of insurgents went underground/escaped. Now there is a resurgence in their activity (i know COIN takes years but the initial hit is supposed to do most of the damage control). Should the army had rather landed its troops on heights and secured the tops first before descending into the valleys?

Well i do believe sometimes in the ISPR releases, they do give the kilometer markers, as how much they have got in. But for ordinary people like us, its not very easy to get the whole picture nor will they give for security of operations purpose.

Army adopted many strategies in the past operations, this one was planned in very detail, by looking at all the previous operations. Months took place in its planning and mobilization of troops.

Yes, i do agree reason being a multiple axis operation also stretches the resources of the militants, they can't concentrate their forces on one side of the battle, knowing enemy is coming from all the sides makes them in a confused mind of state. If you look at the weapons being captured, the passports and pictures of the people, computers and their traveling bags, i believe militants were not even expecting something like that. They ran in haste leaving behind such things and many useful weapons, just look at the number of AA guns captured so far. Instead of staying and fight they resume to running in the confusion. They may be hardened fighters but they can't win a conventional war that also when army coming from multiple sides.

And as for security analysts, Sir as many mouths as many would be theories. Army planners are not stupids to have done such strategy. Issue in such operations are not known to people who have not participated in such operations. Its very easy to say to drop soldiers and it can be done too, but how many resources are available to do that ?? Need helicopters for that, not some but many, same helis would be needed in other places too, wear and tear would be more as we have limited resources. Once you drop the soldiers, then you need a constant supply channel using the helicopters on daily basis nearly. There would be dozens of such peaks, just see how much resources would be needed to keep them supplied.

Such tasks can be done effectively by SSG, but they have been already used a lot, plus its just the start of operation, many hard battles are still to be fought, SSG would be needed in future.

As for Swat i don't think there is any resurgence, rather with each passing day we are seeing more arrests and army controlling more area and more area coming into the controlled and cleared area.

And as for the militants hiding among the IDPs, its in one way good as they will get registered and their information would be available with the authorities. Plus, intelligence agencies would be on the look out, they would be doing filtering and capturing them, which in turn will lead to more clues about other ones, plus even if they go back to their villages, army would then also pick them up as and when they come to know about such people. Same thing happened in Swat, people who got registered and then did not came back and army got info that who they real were, army and police know their names, ID card numbers and last known place of residence and relatives and friends, many were captured from other cities, still many getting captured too.

If you deny insurgents a base to operate from then they can't challenge you in force and with passage of time will die down. It was done in Swat, they now don't have a place to meet and train and plan. scattered and surrendering or getting killed. Same can be done in SW, once you deny them a base, a safe heaven to operate from, they can't then challenge you with force, but condition is that they don't get another safe heaven. That's why i said army going for their home towns, major bases, deny them a proper place to live in, storage of supplies, scatter them and then hunt them down.

 

[TaimiKhan]

As much as we want these people to be self-reliant one would not go for establishing lashkars in these areas. It's not about guilt by association but let's admit it most of the Mehsud tribesmen are Taliban. When the army moves in and phases out, it can't be expected that these people change their allegiances overnight. The same people they fought alongside with, tomorrow they are helping the state capture them. It can't be this hunky-dory.

That's is why i used the word try, as in this place would be little difficult to do such thing. But just to clarify, majority of the Mehsud tribe were living out of fear, as their main elders got killed and they had no place else to go, so they had to live there and support them.

 

[Barrett]

I have seen the maps, except they show very little. They have razmak, sararogha, wana, makeen, kotkai etc jotted out but no real-time information. How many kilometres moved in etc.


Do you agree with the way this operation is being conducted tactically? The three-pronged approach specifically.

Because so far what one has read and heard, many security analysts aren't happy with it. They say that by not securing the heights first and moving outwards --- in contrast to the current strategcy of moving inwards and converging at some point --- the militants have been given ample time to escape and merge with the population. Similar approach was applied in Malakand Division where it is said that a large number of insurgents went underground/escaped. Now there is a resurgence in their activity (i know COIN takes years but the initial hit is supposed to do most of the damage control). Should the army had rather landed its troops on heights and secured the tops first before descending into the valleys?

In my opinion it is practically not possible to move in without capturing the heights and that's exactly how the operation is conducted. Where ever the resistance is tough it is softened by artillery fire and Air Support. Same was done in SWAT, Helibond troops were dropped in peuchar infact 3 SSG battalions. One Advantage PA had in SWAT was that they could cut the supply lines before going in unlike Waziristan whose supply lines come from Afghanistan. Not to ignore the presence of Indian Corps of Engineer in Paktika.

 

[fatman17]

Sir

TK it is Madam in Elmo's case and watch your 6.

 

[fatman17]

(hat I wanted actually was if someone could keep a track... like army went into XYZ tehsils, completely cleared ABC, still fighting in LMN, and unsucessful in PQR. Sort of a daily keeper. There are way too many ISPR press-releases that are inconsistent at times when one looks at the progression of army. But that's just an idea.)

operational details are never revealed/disclosed during a ongoing op by any army let alone PA. after the ops are done, yes indeed!

---------- Post added at 11:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:41 AM ----------

^^TK fantastic job, thats why u r part of the TT

 

[TaimiKhan]

Sir

TK it is Madam in Elmo's case and watch your 6.

Ooopppssss , had no clue to that. Thanks for the info, still have to watch my 6

 

[fatman17]

Ooopppssss , had no clue to that. Thanks for the info, still have to watch my 6

from where u r located u better watch your 6 !
God Bless You - be safe!