fatman17
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make up your own mind! - i am not much into our urdu press!
Operation Rah-e-Nijat (South Waziristan)
- Thread starter ejaz007
- Start date
make up your own mind! - i am not much into our urdu press!
Dear AgNoStIc MuSliM
Thanks very much for your thoughtful and logical response. I truly appreciate you investing the time and attention to articulate your views, I find them very informative, a great learning opportunity.
However I respectfully differ with the flow-down inferences from the revered concept of the State of Pakistan:
1. Whereas Pakistan State and its Constitution are absolutely uncontroversial (above board); the implementing framework is not.
a. Just because a corrupt traffic policeman receiving a Rs 200 bribe from me is wearing a Uniform sanctioned by the state, I cannot salute him with the reverence as I salute my Flag!.
b. Just because our Commander-in-Chief (President) is formally instituted under the States constitutional framework, that does not entitle him to a revered status even though he has served time for embezzlement and corruption.
c. Just because the Armed Forces are sanctioned under the States framework, it does not confer upon them the right to launch operations on their own soil (stated objectives are always very noble, even Pol Pot regime in Cambodia had noble objectives!).
2. State Constitution is the bed rock on which rest of the framework is anchored. Its been 36 years since we had the 1973 Constitution; 20 years under direct martial law, and the rest under Quasi martial law. Repeated amendments have mutilated the letter and spirit of Constitution.
3. It is a fact of life that since 2001 the Government of Pakistan has essentially forfeited its sovereignty to the USA. The Constitution of the State of Pakistan does not sanction:
a. Sale of its citizens to CIA/FBI
b. Or to facilitate drone strikes on its soil.
c. Hand over a serving Ambassador of another country to CIA for being interned in Guantanamo bay.
d. Abduction / Disappearance of hundreds of Pakistanis without a due judicial process.
e. Authorize the use of our airspace and resources to a foreign country to launch operations on our soil or that of neighbors.
4. The Constitution does not confer upon the Services the instutions:
a. Appointing serving Army Officers to run State institutions like KESC, PIA, CDA, Factories and even Cricket teams!.
b. Rapacious land grabs and commercial activities on the pattern of Lt. Gen. Zarrar Zameen, or others of his elk.
In a nutshell the State implementing machinery (Government) has lost its constitutional and moral authority.
The absence of the State taking on the TTP means we leave the people of SW to suffer under a barbaric and medieval regime imposed under force of arms by the Taliban. Torture, denial of freedom, extortion, the rape of innocent young minds as they are taken from their families to serve as cannon fodder for the Taliban, and brainwashed to blow themselves and other innocents up.
FATA has been managed under the draconian FCR (1901) by the corrupted nexus of Political Agents and selected Muajib Khwar Maliks. Taliban are essentially a reactionary force that swapped the ends on the rapacious system then in place. It is not possible to enforce ill conceived ideas on the tribal populace, unless you have some respectability and moral authority.
TTP menace did not rise overnight, it was carefully nurtured over years to CREATE a front in Pakistan where Musharraf regime can be seen as waging a valiant struggle against Al-Quaida.
In favor of the military operation, I would point out that the GoP has tried for nine years now various non-military options to end the insurgency and Taliban threat.
Taliban doctrine gained acceptability due to the misuse of the Armed forces in FATA since early 2002. It began with the ritual BALLI of tribal lives by Musharraf Government whenever a western dignitary passed by Pakistan. Jack Straw while visiting a Medrassah in Peshawar on a goodwill visit was told how expensive his goodwill
Damadola airstrike - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
On 13 January 2006 the Central Intelligence Agency fired missiles into the Pakistani village of Damadola (Urdu: ڈمہ ڈولا
in the Bajaur (Urdu: باجوڑ ) tribal area, about seven kilometres (4.5 miles) from the Afghan border, killing at least 18 people. Originally the Bajaur tribal area government claimed that at least four foreign members of al-Qaeda were among the dead. US and Pakistani officials later admitted that no al-Qaeda leaders perished in the strike and that only local villagers were killed.[1] The attack purportedly targeted Ayman al-Zawahiri, second-in-command of al-Qaeda after Osama bin Laden, who was thought to be in the village.
Hundreds of such incidents were repeated in Khyber, Mohmand, Orakzai, Bajaur, Waziristan till the fuel / air mixture had reached the right proportions. The ill conceived Lal Masjid operation ignited the mixture first in Swat (girl students burnt alive); and then a full scale conflagration. Taliban just emerged as the rallying point by default.
against the people participating in a mixed marathon in Lahore
You have absolute freedom to enjoy your black label, rave parties late into morning, and occasional ecstasy highs and ++, as long as you dont attack the sensibilities of the society. The mixed marathon was one of Musharrafs many hedonistic ideas (kinda enlightened moderation); essentially boycotted by the people of Lahore. Even Ch. Pervaiz Elahis family did not participate.
So while you have a right to disagree with the methodology of the State, I fail to see on what grounds you disagree, given that the State has attempted non-violent means already. Nor have you offered any new way to disband the Taliban militias that does not involve military action.
There is a sure shot way to disband the Taliban militias, by giving them due political space in accordance with the Constitution of Pakistan. To achieve that end you have to restore our FEDERALIST Constitution in its letter and spirit; with due judicial processes. Collective punishments and mass exodus is not sanctioned by any Constitutional provision. PAKISTAN HAS TO EMERGE AS A SOVEREIGN STATE IN ISLAMABAD FIRST!
I don't care who is paying for the operation or praising it - for the reasons outlined above, it is clear to me that the only way to safeguard the lives and freedom of Pakistanis in the long term is to eliminate the terrorist threat, whether it be in FATA, Punjab or Baluchistan, and given everything else that has been tried and the lack of viable alternative solutions, this is the only option left.
Dear Sir you know it very well that such simplistic outlook has got us where we find ourselves today. Even a Soap factory is managed with better dexterity than this. If this was a solution, you and I would have been enjoying a holiday in pacified Swat today (or even in 5 years).
Thanks very much for your thoughtful and logical response. I truly appreciate you investing the time and attention to articulate your views, I find them very informative, a great learning opportunity.
However I respectfully differ with the flow-down inferences from the revered concept of the State of Pakistan:
1. Whereas Pakistan State and its Constitution are absolutely uncontroversial (above board); the implementing framework is not.
a. Just because a corrupt traffic policeman receiving a Rs 200 bribe from me is wearing a Uniform sanctioned by the state, I cannot salute him with the reverence as I salute my Flag!.
b. Just because our Commander-in-Chief (President) is formally instituted under the States constitutional framework, that does not entitle him to a revered status even though he has served time for embezzlement and corruption.
c. Just because the Armed Forces are sanctioned under the States framework, it does not confer upon them the right to launch operations on their own soil (stated objectives are always very noble, even Pol Pot regime in Cambodia had noble objectives!).
2. State Constitution is the bed rock on which rest of the framework is anchored. Its been 36 years since we had the 1973 Constitution; 20 years under direct martial law, and the rest under Quasi martial law. Repeated amendments have mutilated the letter and spirit of Constitution.
3. It is a fact of life that since 2001 the Government of Pakistan has essentially forfeited its sovereignty to the USA. The Constitution of the State of Pakistan does not sanction:
a. Sale of its citizens to CIA/FBI
b. Or to facilitate drone strikes on its soil.
c. Hand over a serving Ambassador of another country to CIA for being interned in Guantanamo bay.
d. Abduction / Disappearance of hundreds of Pakistanis without a due judicial process.
e. Authorize the use of our airspace and resources to a foreign country to launch operations on our soil or that of neighbors.
4. The Constitution does not confer upon the Services the instutions:
a. Appointing serving Army Officers to run State institutions like KESC, PIA, CDA, Factories and even Cricket teams!.
b. Rapacious land grabs and commercial activities on the pattern of Lt. Gen. Zarrar Zameen, or others of his elk.
In a nutshell the State implementing machinery (Government) has lost its constitutional and moral authority.
The absence of the State taking on the TTP means we leave the people of SW to suffer under a barbaric and medieval regime imposed under force of arms by the Taliban. Torture, denial of freedom, extortion, the rape of innocent young minds as they are taken from their families to serve as cannon fodder for the Taliban, and brainwashed to blow themselves and other innocents up.
FATA has been managed under the draconian FCR (1901) by the corrupted nexus of Political Agents and selected Muajib Khwar Maliks. Taliban are essentially a reactionary force that swapped the ends on the rapacious system then in place. It is not possible to enforce ill conceived ideas on the tribal populace, unless you have some respectability and moral authority.
TTP menace did not rise overnight, it was carefully nurtured over years to CREATE a front in Pakistan where Musharraf regime can be seen as waging a valiant struggle against Al-Quaida.
In favor of the military operation, I would point out that the GoP has tried for nine years now various non-military options to end the insurgency and Taliban threat.
Taliban doctrine gained acceptability due to the misuse of the Armed forces in FATA since early 2002. It began with the ritual BALLI of tribal lives by Musharraf Government whenever a western dignitary passed by Pakistan. Jack Straw while visiting a Medrassah in Peshawar on a goodwill visit was told how expensive his goodwill
Damadola airstrike - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
On 13 January 2006 the Central Intelligence Agency fired missiles into the Pakistani village of Damadola (Urdu: ڈمہ ڈولا
in the Bajaur (Urdu: باجوڑ ) tribal area, about seven kilometres (4.5 miles) from the Afghan border, killing at least 18 people. Originally the Bajaur tribal area government claimed that at least four foreign members of al-Qaeda were among the dead. US and Pakistani officials later admitted that no al-Qaeda leaders perished in the strike and that only local villagers were killed.[1] The attack purportedly targeted Ayman al-Zawahiri, second-in-command of al-Qaeda after Osama bin Laden, who was thought to be in the village.Hundreds of such incidents were repeated in Khyber, Mohmand, Orakzai, Bajaur, Waziristan till the fuel / air mixture had reached the right proportions. The ill conceived Lal Masjid operation ignited the mixture first in Swat (girl students burnt alive); and then a full scale conflagration. Taliban just emerged as the rallying point by default.
against the people participating in a mixed marathon in Lahore
You have absolute freedom to enjoy your black label, rave parties late into morning, and occasional ecstasy highs and ++, as long as you dont attack the sensibilities of the society. The mixed marathon was one of Musharrafs many hedonistic ideas (kinda enlightened moderation); essentially boycotted by the people of Lahore. Even Ch. Pervaiz Elahis family did not participate.
So while you have a right to disagree with the methodology of the State, I fail to see on what grounds you disagree, given that the State has attempted non-violent means already. Nor have you offered any new way to disband the Taliban militias that does not involve military action.
There is a sure shot way to disband the Taliban militias, by giving them due political space in accordance with the Constitution of Pakistan. To achieve that end you have to restore our FEDERALIST Constitution in its letter and spirit; with due judicial processes. Collective punishments and mass exodus is not sanctioned by any Constitutional provision. PAKISTAN HAS TO EMERGE AS A SOVEREIGN STATE IN ISLAMABAD FIRST!
I don't care who is paying for the operation or praising it - for the reasons outlined above, it is clear to me that the only way to safeguard the lives and freedom of Pakistanis in the long term is to eliminate the terrorist threat, whether it be in FATA, Punjab or Baluchistan, and given everything else that has been tried and the lack of viable alternative solutions, this is the only option left.
Dear Sir you know it very well that such simplistic outlook has got us where we find ourselves today. Even a Soap factory is managed with better dexterity than this. If this was a solution, you and I would have been enjoying a holiday in pacified Swat today (or even in 5 years).
courageneverdies
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Rawalpindi, October 21, 2009:
South Waziristan - Operation Rah-e-Nijat.
In last 24 hours, fifteen terrorists have been killed during Security forces operation in SWA. Security forces losses are three security forces personnel including an officer embraced shahadat and seven were injured.
Details of operations are as follows:-
a. On Jandola Sararogha Axis
(1) Security forces are engaged in an intense encounter with terrorists hiding on heights surrounding Kotkai. After securing Tor Ghundai feature east of Kotkai, security forces are in the process of clearing surrounding heights and caves. During exchange of fire one officer and one soldier embraced shahadat and four were injured.
(2) After securing Malik Shahi, security forces are undertaking clearance operation upto Mizo-Wam. During the operation seven terrorists were killed.
(3) Security forces check post has been established at Manzai Kili west of Mandanna.
(4) Security forces are strengthening their positions at area around Spinkai.
b. On Shakai - Ladha Axis
(1) Security forces have made good progress and cleared Khaisura village linking up with Tiarza fort. During the operation eight terrorists have been killed. Many houses of this village were converted into bunkers. Heavily fortified bunkers having 2 meters thick concrete walls have been discovered.
(2) At present security forces are conducting search and clearance operation in Sherwangi and surrounding areas along with consolidation at Wuzi Sar and Gurgura Sar. During exchange of fire one soldier embraced shahadat and three were injured.
(3) During search of houses of Uzbeks, converted into bunkers around Sher Wangi, 105 bottles of Liquor were discovered.
2. Following arms and ammunition have been recovered during operation Rah-e-Nijat:-
a. 27 hand grenades and 4 rockets
b. 2 ammunition carrying bags
c. 7 x 12.7 mm Anti Air Craft guns and 2 x 14.5 mm Anti Air Craft guns along with 2007 mortar rounds.
d. 2 x rifles - 7 mm and 4 x rifles - 303
e. 7x RPG-7
f. 36 x 82 mm mortar rounds
g. 1 x 75 mm RR
h. 14 x 107 mm Single Barrel Rocket Launcher
j. 18 x 60 mm mortar rounds
k. 22 IEDs
4. Relief Activities - DI Khan and Tank.
a. Before the start of operation Rah-e-Nijat, a total of 11,089 families (80,507 individuals) are registered at D I Khan and Tank.
b. After the operation to date 4490 families (41570 individuals) have been registered at D I Khan and Tank.
c. 4,735 cash cards have been distributed amongst the IDPs of Waziristan.
---
KIT Over n Out
South Waziristan - Operation Rah-e-Nijat.
In last 24 hours, fifteen terrorists have been killed during Security forces operation in SWA. Security forces losses are three security forces personnel including an officer embraced shahadat and seven were injured.
Details of operations are as follows:-
a. On Jandola Sararogha Axis
(1) Security forces are engaged in an intense encounter with terrorists hiding on heights surrounding Kotkai. After securing Tor Ghundai feature east of Kotkai, security forces are in the process of clearing surrounding heights and caves. During exchange of fire one officer and one soldier embraced shahadat and four were injured.
(2) After securing Malik Shahi, security forces are undertaking clearance operation upto Mizo-Wam. During the operation seven terrorists were killed.
(3) Security forces check post has been established at Manzai Kili west of Mandanna.
(4) Security forces are strengthening their positions at area around Spinkai.
b. On Shakai - Ladha Axis
(1) Security forces have made good progress and cleared Khaisura village linking up with Tiarza fort. During the operation eight terrorists have been killed. Many houses of this village were converted into bunkers. Heavily fortified bunkers having 2 meters thick concrete walls have been discovered.
(2) At present security forces are conducting search and clearance operation in Sherwangi and surrounding areas along with consolidation at Wuzi Sar and Gurgura Sar. During exchange of fire one soldier embraced shahadat and three were injured.
(3) During search of houses of Uzbeks, converted into bunkers around Sher Wangi, 105 bottles of Liquor were discovered.
2. Following arms and ammunition have been recovered during operation Rah-e-Nijat:-
a. 27 hand grenades and 4 rockets
b. 2 ammunition carrying bags
c. 7 x 12.7 mm Anti Air Craft guns and 2 x 14.5 mm Anti Air Craft guns along with 2007 mortar rounds.
d. 2 x rifles - 7 mm and 4 x rifles - 303
e. 7x RPG-7
f. 36 x 82 mm mortar rounds
g. 1 x 75 mm RR
h. 14 x 107 mm Single Barrel Rocket Launcher
j. 18 x 60 mm mortar rounds
k. 22 IEDs
4. Relief Activities - DI Khan and Tank.
a. Before the start of operation Rah-e-Nijat, a total of 11,089 families (80,507 individuals) are registered at D I Khan and Tank.
b. After the operation to date 4490 families (41570 individuals) have been registered at D I Khan and Tank.
c. 4,735 cash cards have been distributed amongst the IDPs of Waziristan.
---
KIT Over n Out
TalibanSwatter
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You are a propagandist of the worst kind - You have the cheek to justify the TTP atrocities in Swat as a 'rallying point after Lal Masjid' as if they were liberating the people!! The TTP power grab in Swat had been going on in 2006 long before the Lal Masjid incident ever took place!!!
Do you have no shame or decency?? Go and talk to the IDPs and you will learn about the shocking crimes inflicted on them by the TTP scumbags - the rape and plunder, slaughtering of civilians/policemen, and the rapacious land grabs throughout Malakand not too mention the imposition of fascist salafi practices imported straight from Riyadh.
And you dare suggest we give 'political space' to these murderous salafi swine? How can anyone in his right mind agree to giving political space to terrorists who blow up girl's schools, rape our women, behead our policemen, murder respected Sunni clerics like Sarfraz Naeemi, denounce the state institutions and its pillars, and whose moronic leaders like Sufi Mohammed reject democracy and the supreme court of pakistan as "unIslamic'???
Have you lost your mind?? - think I already know the answer to that!
Salafi and TTP cheerleaders like yourself are beyond pathetic. You are never going to be accepted by the Salafi leadership(given its ethno-centric racist mindset) as one of their own as you are not Arab, and merely hawking their agenda is not going to elevate your status in their eyes - you are going to remain their mouthpiece and an errand boy at best.
I feel sorry for your kind - reviled by pakistanis, misfits in their country of residence, being used by the salafis, and suffering from an identity crisis.
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air marshal
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DaRk WaVe
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TaimiKhan
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But they are still doing the job with effectiveness which the western highly equipped forces can't do in 8 years.
xdrive
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Not from what i have heard to be honest. I heard the pakistan army is struggling against the taliban. Large parts of the country are under taliban control. I was recently reading an artical from a afghan journalist who was captured by the taliban. According to him he observed a peace deal between the taliban and the pakistan army where army convoys were allowed through taliban roadblocks without any problem.
DaRk WaVe
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U are a seriously 'ill informed person & a victim of Propaganda'
xdrive
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I am ill informed am i? even though every single news media is reporting the exact same thing?
DaRk WaVe
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Now tell me what u mean by large parts of Pakistan under control of Taliban???
What is this??
Swat is Cleared the Problem remains in SWA...
Atleast our ill equipped Army has got Some AChievement what is achievement of NATO & US in AFgh, is there any Control of NATO & US over Afgh territory??? they just a control a portion of Kabul & a few isolated bases
xdrive
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Exactly what i said is what i meant.
I keep seeing you referring to Nato in afghanastan. It's a totally different story there. They are gaining ground, not losing it. I laugh at the fact that you say they only control kabul and a few isolated bases, that is totally wrong. There are small pockets of insurgency. If NATO left now, there is no way the taliban could take the country back.
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