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Operation Moshtarak Thread: Afghan flag hoisted over Marjah

Here you go again Fundamentalist. Talking about something you know nothing about. Here are some the prerequisites for a successful guerrilla Campaign.

1. Popular support. Support can be passive or active. It is not necessary that the entire population actively support an insurgency, but the majority of the population must passively support it. During the Soviet invasion there was wide support. Something the Taliban lack now.

2. Unity of effort. The overall thrust of an insurgent movement must provide a strength of unity that dedicates those involved to achieving the same goal.

3. Will to resist. It is not enough for the population to resist their government passively; at least a portion must be willing to resist actively.

4. Leadership. The activities and effort of the insurgent movement must be properly directed through the exercise of effective leadership.

5. Discipline. The aspect of the movement must be strongly maintained to ensure security and obedience.

6. Intelligence. Because the insurgent movement is usually inferior in numbers and combat power in relation to government forces, the intelligence effort must provide security for the insurgent organization and information to conduct successful operations.

7. Propaganda. It is used to gain popular support and intensify the populace's dissatisfaction with the government.

8. Favorable environment. This includes attitudes of the people, the political environment, and the economic situation.

9. External support. The preceding eight conditions are theoretically the only ones that an insurgency must have to succeed. Historically, however, there seems to be one additional condition that must exist the condition of external support. This support may be physical or psychological. Examples of physical external support are equipment, weapons, supplies, ammunition, sanctuaries, personnel, and combat units. Examples of psychological external support include the political support given to the resistance when a country recognizes that movement in the world arena and the pressure a government might exert politically or economically to influence world opinion in favor of the movement.


In the interest of time (it's 4am here) I will not go much into counter insurgency at this time. It is a broad topic that can take up a whole page of it's own. I will say though that the U.S. has vast first hand experience in fighting a counter insurgency campaign. The thousands of Taliban that have died since they were driven from power attest to that fact. And with the U.S. being able to divert attention from Iraq to Afghanistan more and more. Expect a marked increase in Taliban deaths.

However there is always much to learn. Anyone that's says they know it all are fools. However one of the keys to a good counter insurgency campaign. Is to always be teachable and willing to change tactics depending on the situation. As with any protracted war though mistakes will happen. The question is do you learn from them.

All your prerequisite covered in my three points ,

1. Environment -conducive envirinment is big for talaban ,location,local population,language support,communication,availability of weapons ,weather conditions.

2.Congo(Fighting spirit) Their moral is very high ,fight for home land and Islam is desire of every muslim,ready for extreme sacrifices dont care of casualities, fighting without to gain material benfits to gain will of Allah only.

3. Experience-They are at war from last 30 years , well aware of ISAF tactics and trained for Gurrilla war strategy .Their organisational structure is also better under , they are one man cammand from last nine years ,they dont change their cammander frequently. ISAF changed their cammanders frequently.They have lighter weapons and advantage of speedy movement .They have also strategic depth from all sides because Afghanistan is land lock country all bouders are open for them .

Your analysis about lacking of talaban is not correct because ISAF desired result are not achieved in nine years.

Problem is not with your Generals, they know very well that they already lost this war , problem is with your political leadership majority (80%) of them are anti Talaban because of their faith and friendship with OBL and they are elected by Zoinist lobby support .Your president is also speaking their language that Afghan war is necessity not choice.
 
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All your prerequisite covered in my three points ,

1. Environment -conducive envirinment is big for talaban ,location,local population,language support,communication,availability of weapons ,weather conditions.

2.Congo(Fighting spirit) Their moral is very high ,fight for home land and Islam is desire of every muslim,ready for extreme sacrifices dont care of casualities, fighting without to gain material benfits to gain will of Allah only.

3. Experience-They are at war from last 30 years , well aware of ISAF tactics and trained for Gurrilla war strategy .Their organisational structure is also better under , they are one man cammand from last nine years ,they dont change their cammander frequently. ISAF changed their cammanders frequently.They have lighter weapons and advantage of speedy movement .They have also strategic depth from all sides because Afghanistan is land lock country all bouders are open for them .

Your analysis about lacking of talaban is not correct because ISAF desired result are not achieved in nine years.

Problem is not with your Generals, they know very well that they already lost this war , problem is with your political leadership majority (80%) of them are anti Talaban because of their faith and friendship with OBL and they are elected by Zoinist lobby support. Your president is also speaking their language that Afghan war is necessity not choice.

I contemplated not even responding to this post. You make such outlandish claims in the face of overwhelming proof. Your almost like a teenager who thinks he knows it all. Yet lacks the real world experience to be knowledgeable. I recommend that instead of being a keyboard Jihadist. You go see for yourself the realities of fighting a guerrilla war. And see the amount of support (logistical and moral) the Taliban really have among the people. If they had the support that you claim they would not have people pointing out their positions to the ISAF in Marja. You would not have hundreds of tribal elders joining with the ISAF throughout Afghanistan.

You need to stop drinking the extremist Kool-Aid and learn to think for yourself. And exercise some common sense. You should start listening to some of your fellow Pakistani forum members. Who actually live in Pakistan and see first hand what the Taliban are like.
 
I contemplated not even responding to this post. You make such outlandish claims in the face of overwhelming proof. Your almost like a teenager who thinks he knows it all. Yet lacks the real world experience to be knowledgeable. I recommend that instead of being a keyboard Jihadist. You go see for yourself the realities of fighting a guerrilla war. And see the amount of support (logistical and moral) the Taliban really have among the people. If they had the support that you claim they would not have people pointing out their positions to the ISAF in Marja. You would not have hundreds of tribal elders joining with the ISAF throughout Afghanistan.

You need to stop drinking the extremist Kool-Aid and learn to think for yourself. And exercise some common sense. You should start listening to some of your fellow Pakistani forum members. Who actually live in Pakistan and see first hand what the Taliban are like.

Leave him alone. He does not know what a war is. He hasnt suffered as the Afghans have been suffering for the last 30 years, he doesnt know what death and destruction is, he doenst know how painful it is to see your country a battlefield and being ruined all the way, let him have his lovely life in Canada and post a few things on the internet to make him happy.
 
US Marines seize Taliban headquarters in Marjah

MARJAH: After a fierce gunbattle, US Marines seized a strongly defended compound on Friday that appears to have been Taliban headquarters – complete with photos of fighters posing with their weapons, dozens of Taliban-issued ID cards and graduation diplomas allegedly from a training camp in Pakistan.

The Taliban, who had been using the field office just south of Marjah’s town centre, abandoned it by the end of the day’s fighting, as Marines converged on them from all sides, escalating operations to break resistance in this Taliban stronghold in southern Helmand province.

Marines from Lima Company, 3rd Battalion, 6th Marines fought their way south from the town centre on Friday after residents told them that several dozen insurgent fighters had regrouped in the area.

Throughout the day, small groups of Taliban marksmen tried to slow the advance with rifle fire as they slowly fell back in face of the Marines assault.

“They know that they are outnumbered ... and that in the end they don’t have the firepower to compete with us conventionally,” said Lima Company, 3rd Battalion, 6th Marines Commander Captain Joshua Winfrey of Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Lima Company’s advance was part of a move by several Marine companies to converge on a pocket of Taliban fighters from all four directions. The Marines believe they’ve cornered what appeared to be a significant Taliban fighting force.

“It seems that it’s their last stand,” Winfrey said.

NATO said two of its personnel died on Friday in a small-arms attack but did not identify the victim by nationality.

Six coalition troops were killed on Thursday, NATO said, making it the deadliest day since the offensive began on February 13.

Britain’s Defence Ministry said three British soldiers were among those killed on Thursday.

On Friday about two-dozen elite Marines were dropped by helicopter into an area where skilled Taliban marksmen are known to operate, an officer said.

A NATO statement said troops were still meeting “some resistance” from insurgents and homemade bombs remain the key threat. At a briefing in London, Major General Gordon Messenger said the militant holdouts don’t threaten the overall offensive but will take time to clear out. agencies
 
Funny that Fundamentalist was baying about the heat. We've had more MEDEVACS for hypothermia than gunshot. We've had more MEDEVACS for gunshot than IED. One marine had a frost-bitten fingertip. Anyway, it's a grunt war for sure-

War The Old-Fashioned Way-WAPO Feb. 20, 2010

It'll be weeks before they shower. It might be as long before mess-hall chow. They're running short of cigarettes.

The marines seem happy.:agree:

Thanks.:usflag:
 
"You know those 'snipers' will 'stretch' the war till summer:cool:"

That's fine if they do. We've got nothing better to do but be Marjah marines, hang out, cop some rays...

...and kill 'em one sniper at a time.:agree:

No sense scaring the locals more than we need.

They say we've got the watches but they have the time. We'll see.

Thanks.:agree:
 
I contemplated not even responding to this post. You make such outlandish claims in the face of overwhelming proof. Your almost like a teenager who thinks he knows it all. Yet lacks the real world experience to be knowledgeable. I recommend that instead of being a keyboard Jihadist. You go see for yourself the realities of fighting a guerrilla war. And see the amount of support (logistical and moral) the Taliban really have among the people. If they had the support that you claim they would not have people pointing out their positions to the ISAF in Marja. You would not have hundreds of tribal elders joining with the ISAF throughout Afghanistan.

You need to stop drinking the extremist Kool-Aid and learn to think for yourself. And exercise some common sense. You should start listening to some of your fellow Pakistani forum members. Who actually live in Pakistan and see first hand what the Taliban are like.

My comment are based on my understanding after observing 9 year war results .

I will wellcome your critisim if you prove my comments wrong .

2010 will be year of strategic victory of Talaban , which will be long lasting then ISAF victory in 2001.

Also remember Dutch and Canadian soldiers will not be available for your support after 2010.
 
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“You don’t really need to chase and kill the Taliban,” said General Stanley McChrystal, the former special forces chief and newly appointed US commander of all allied troops in Afghanistan. “What you need to do is take away the one thing they absolutely have to have – and that’s access and the support of the people.” This, in a nutshell, is the basis of the coalition's new strategy in Afghanistan, and the driving force behind the new tactical shift in Helmand, which sofar attempted to route the Taliban from their strongholds in the area but, lacking stamina, eroded into prolonged bloody skirmishes that did not leave much impression on the Taliban and lost the remaining faith the population had in the foreign forces. The new operation is aiming to change that trend.

Changing Strategy for Afghanistan

You already lost your credibility among civilians during last nine years , how can you construct building on wrong foundation.:disagree:
 
My comment are based on my understanding after observing 9 year war results .

I will wellcome your critisim if you prove my comments wrong .

2010 will be year of strategic victory of Talaban , which will be long lasting then ISAF victory in 2001.

Also remember Dutch and Canadian soldiers will not be available for your support after 2010.

I must say after 9 years of watching the war this is the standard of your knowledge than you must have started watching it from the age of 10.

The ISAF is in Helmand while your Mullah Brother is in jail and the other Taliban scums in their caves and the Afghani people warm in their homes.

Hardly a victory for Taliban. The Afghan flag flies happily in Helmand.

Regards
 
I must say after 9 years of watching the war this is the standard of your knowledge than you must have started watching it from the age of 10.

The ISAF is in Helmand while your Mullah Brother is in jail and the other Taliban scums in their caves and the Afghani people warm in their homes.

Hardly a victory for Taliban. The Afghan flag flies happily in Helmand.

Regards

Being indian why are you worried :lol:
 
NATO Afghanistan air-strike kills 27 civilians
Mon, Feb 22 10:29 PM


A medical helicopter lands during a heavy gun battle in Helmand province February 21, 2010....

NATO airstrike in Afghanistan mistakenly killed 27 civilians, the government said on Monday, hurting a campaign to win over the local population and defeat Taliban insurgents.

The Afghan cabinet condemned the killings as "unjustifiable" after an aircraft fired on civilians, mistaking them for insurgents, in the south near the border of Uruzgan and Dai Kondi provinces.

Civilian casualties have caused friction between the government and foreign forces, who have launched two big offensives in the past eight months in a bid to turn the tide of a growing Taliban-led insurgency.

Initially the Afghan cabinet reported 33 deaths, but later clarified that 27 had died. Sunday's toll was still the highest number of civilian deaths in months.

The incident was not part of Operation Mushtarak, a major NATO-led campaign to clear Taliban militants out of neighbouring Helmand province in the south.

Nonetheless, it could still undermine government and NATO efforts to win over civilians under a plan to wrest control of Taliban bastions and hand them over to state authorities before the start of a gradual U.S. troop withdrawal in 2011.

"Initial reports indicate that NATO fired Sunday on a convoy of three vehicles ... killing at least 27 civilians, including four women and one child, and injuring 12 others," the Afghan cabinet said in a statement.

The NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) said in a statement civilians had been killed as they approached a joint NATO-Afghan unit, but did not say how many.

An investigation has begun, it said.

"We are extremely saddened by the tragic loss of innocent lives," U.S. General Stanley McChrystal, commander of NATO forces in Afghanistan, said in the ISAF statement.

"I have made it clear to our forces that we are here to protect the Afghan people and inadvertently killing or injuring civilians undermines their trust and confidence in our mission."

McChrystal's counter-insurgency strategy emphasises seizing population centres and avoiding combat in built-up areas whenever possible to avert civilian deaths. The number of civilians killed by NATO troops has declined since he took command in mid-2009.

Brad Adams, Asia Director for Human Rights Watch, praised McChrystal's efforts to reduce civilian casualties and said they have made a difference, but he said the coalition continues to act on poor intelligence.

"This has gone on for years. They urgently need to solve this problem to avoid mistakes that could undermine this policy," he said.

U.S. Marines say they have been extra careful not to put civilians at risk in their assault in Marjah in Helmand, Afghanistan's most violent province. This has at times prevented them from acting more decisively and slowed them down.

The International Committee of the Red Cross said roads infested with hidden bombs make it difficult to evacuate the sick and wounded to hospitals in the provincial capital Lashkar Gah.

"The ICRC calls on the armed opposition, the Afghan National Army and police and international military forces to ensure that the conduct of military operations does not unduly affect access to medical care," it said in a statement.

At least 12 people were killed in a poorly targeted rocket strike the day after Operation Mushtarak started this month. A total of 21 civilians have died in the NATO offensive, ISAF said.

While NATO forces appear to have made significant progress in the offensive -- a test of U.S. President Barack Obama's troop surge strategy -- their push to clear out militants can backfire.

"People still complain about how the house searches are being conducted. The joint forces should not view every person here with suspicion of being a Taliban or a relative of one," said Abdur Rahman Saber, head of a local council established before the Marjah offensive to monitor the plight of civilians.

"When the government and its foreign allies want the people on their side, they should respect every resident here. People should not feel any sense of insecurity from Afghan or foreign troops."

NATO and Afghan forces still are still under pressure to push out remaining Taliban fighters, and prevent others from coming back to Marjah, a poppy cultivation centre which Western countries say funds the insurgency.

(Additional reporting by Sayed Sallahuddin and Hamid Shalizi Writing by Michael Georgy; Editing by Bryson Hull)
 
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