Open Debate | Ideal direction of Pak-Afghan relations.

[B+ Dracula]

I agree! But that is in the realms of fiction as of today. Considering Yahoos like General Hafiz Saeed and Co, they would never allow trade between India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan. The security environment out there sucks!!
Therefore India has now got an alternative trade route to Iran, Afghanistan and the Central Asian Republics through the Chabahar port in Iran.
And needless to say, an undersea oil pipeline to the Middle East completely bypassing Pakistan.....

Cheers!

Cheers...
MONEY SAVED......

When you're going to build Under sea Gas Pipe?? I've no info ?? Is that news ok/confirmed??
Whats the reaction of Iranians on choosing Middle east for Gas Supply??

 

[OrionHunter]

Like everything else, trade must also take the shortest route, do you really think that this route is financially feasible as compared to one that cuts through Pakistan? Whereas it could serve as a much needed reserve route in case Pakistan chooses to restrict Afghan access to Pakistani roads, I have serious doubts this will be their go-to route.

It would be ideal if India, Pakistan and Afghanistan cooperate and make use of direct land routes. But as I mentioned in my earlier post, this isn't possible in the present environment, what with the likes of Hafiz Saeed who heads the anti-India Difa-e-Pakistan Council (DPC), a banned umbrella coalition of more than 40 Pakistani Religious parties that advocate conservative policies such as closing NATO supply routes and rejects the Pakistani government's decision to grant India most-favored nation status which will ensure that there is little or no trade between our countries.

And that was the reason why India had to find alternative routes for access to Iran, Afghanistan and the Central Asian Republics.

 

[Icarus]

It would be ideal if India, Pakistan and Afghanistan cooperate and make use of direct land routes. But as I mentioned in my earlier post, this isn't possible in the present environment, what with the likes of Hafiz Saeed who heads the anti-India Difa-e-Pakistan Council (DPC), a banned umbrella coalition of more than 40 Pakistani Religious parties that advocate conservative policies such as closing NATO supply routes and rejects the Pakistani government's decision to grant India most-favored nation status which will ensure that there is little or no trade between our countries.

And that was the reason why India had to find alternative routes for access to Iran, Afghanistan and the Central Asian Republics.

I believe you are familiar with the maxim: "Na baap bara na bhaiya, hai sab say bara rupaya".

If the volume of trade between Afghanistan and India really reaches a threshold where it can be economically viable on a sustained scale, then Pakistan will also want in on it and allowing both parties to use our pre-existing road network would prove a most beneficial solution to meet that end. And when the GoP will take interest in the project, they will ensure that they create the kind of atmosphere needed for them to be able to fully facilitate it.

 

[OrionHunter]

When you're going to build Under sea Gas Pipe?? I've no info ?? Is that news ok/confirmed??
Whats the reaction of Iranians on choosing Middle east for Gas Supply??

India’s South Asia Gas Enterprise Pvt. Ltd. (SAGE) has conducted feasibility studies for the planned 1,400-kilometer pipeline, which is estimated to cost USD 4-5 billion and would carry 31 million cubic meters (mcm) per day of gas to India.

Here's the info for the undersea pipeline... India, Oman, Iran in subsea pipeline talks|Offshore Energy Today

 

[qamar1990]

Since Afghanistan is land locked, Pakistan should go out of it's way to allow duty free commerce thru it's Gwadar Port into Afghanistan. The two nations can work out a commerce treaty with a simple percentage of either gross or net revenue of all such commerce earned by Afghan businesses and/or the Afghan government.

Separately, Afghanistan would do well to develop a similar commercial treaty with Iran.

why so?
they invited india to our backyard.
i think we need to seal our border and then get some pay back for every single drop of pakistani blood.

I agree! But that is in the realms of fiction as of today. Considering Yahoos like General Hafiz Saeed and Co, they would never allow trade between India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan. The security environment out there sucks!!

Therefore India has now got an alternative trade route to Iran, Afghanistan and the Central Asian Republics through the Chabahar port in Iran.

And needless to say, an undersea oil pipeline to the Middle East completely bypassing Pakistan.....

Cheers!

.

under water pipeline my *** lol
I'm waiting for that day lol

 

[B+ Dracula]

India’s South Asia Gas Enterprise Pvt. Ltd. (SAGE) has conducted feasibility studies for the planned 1,400-kilometer pipeline, which is estimated to cost USD 4-5 billion and would carry 31 million cubic meters (mcm) per day of gas to India.
Here's the info for the undersea pipeline... India, Oman, Iran in subsea pipeline talks|Offshore Energy Today

I respect your sharing....but the website you mentioned seems me Have no Credibility....
Dont you share news from your Own Indian CREDIBLE NEWSPAPER ?? or Governement website??

Lets the Dust settle down, we will be the one to Open Gates for you....INSHALLAH

 

[Armstrong]

I believe you are familiar with the maxim: "Na baap bara na bhaiya, hai sab say bara rupaya".

If the volume of trade between Afghanistan and India really reaches a threshold where it can be economically viable on a sustained scale, then Pakistan will also want in on it and allowing both parties to use our pre-existing road network would prove a most beneficial solution to meet that end. And when the GoP will take interest in the project, they will ensure that they create the kind of atmosphere needed for them to be able to fully facilitate it.

Oh come on its more than that - If the Indians aren't gonna water down their non-tariff barriers that defeat the very purpose of 'free or liberalized trade' than how can we possibly be blamed when we look at the MFN Status that India gave us in the '90s & rightly conclude that the document is worth little more than a roll of toilet paper ?

And if the Afghans aren't going to behave themselves, not only in terms of supporting terrorism once more (something they've been up to since '48), but also in a myriad other things - Anti-Smuggling for one, why in heaven's name would we wish to grant them access to India ?

Its like saying a Neighbor who encroaches on your land with a view to making it his own that why don't you allow me a path to your neighbor on the other side going through your territory !

 

[Icarus]

Oh come on its more than that - If the Indians aren't gonna water down their non-tariff barriers that defeat the very purpose of 'free or liberalized trade' than how can we possibly be blamed when we look at the MFN Status that India gave us in the '90s & rightly conclude that the document is worth little more than a roll of toilet paper ?

That's another matter, right now we're concerned with the trade routes passing through Pakistan.

And if the Afghans aren't going to behave themselves, not only in terms of supporting terrorism once more (something they've been up to since '48), but also in a myriad other things - Anti-Smuggling for one, why in heaven's name would we wish to grant them access to India ?

Precisely through that reason, if they have legal access to the Pakistani and Indian market, that might give them a reason to abstain from smuggling and they'll be a lot more hesitant to seed extremism in Pakistan if it means that it is their own trade that will be disrupted as a result.

Its like saying a Neighbor who encroaches on your land with a view to making it his own that why don't you allow me a path to your neighbor on the other side going through your territory !

Keep your friends close but your enemies closer.

 

[Armstrong]

That's another matter, right now we're concerned with the trade routes passing through Pakistan.

It is not - Reciprocity is the keyword here; Trade with India & letting them Trade with Afghanistan are mutually linked - There is little point in allowing them to trade with Afghanistan & to Central Asia in turn if we're not allowed access to the Indian Market with the non-tariff barriers making liberalized trade a joke !

Precisely through that reason, if they have legal access to the Pakistani and Indian market, that might give them a reason to abstain from smuggling and they'll be a lot more hesitant to seed extremism in Pakistan if it means that it is their own trade that will be disrupted as a result.

I don't think so; they had access during Ayub's time when even we used to freely trade with India - Remember !

It didn't stop them from plotting against Afghanistan at every opportunity !

Pakistan has been investing billions into Afghanistan while they cling to us as parasites or worse they eat us from the inside like termites - There should be reciprocity there; come what may we should make it abundantly clear to them that if you're going engage in the BS of ages past whereby you allow Separatists to train & find sanctuaries on your land, are going to refuse to recognize the Durand Line & let us regulate it as an International Border or are going to allow Proxies of different countries to be used against Pakistan like you did in the '90s - Then let alone trade...everything will off the table & then don't blame us if decide to safe-guard our interests in Afghanistan using whatever it is at our disposal !

Keep your friends close but your enemies closer.

Sethi Sahib do you also keep a 'chiryaa' like your more famous Uncle ?

Did the chiryaa tell you this ?

 

[Icarus]

It is not - Reciprocity is the keyword here; Trade with India & letting them Trade with Afghanistan are mutually linked - There is little point in allowing them to trade with Afghanistan & to Central Asia in turn if we're not allowed access to the Indian Market with the non-tariff barriers making liberalized trade a joke !

Its not reciprocity, its a matter of balance. You know how drug dealers sell heroine? The first few hits are free and then they'll be coming back regardless of how much you ask off them. So, you offer both countries trade routes, first hits are free and then you extend your demands. Get my drift?

I don't think so; they had access during Ayub's time when even we used to freely trade with India - Remember !

Starkly different circumstances.

It didn't stop them from plotting against Afghanistan at every opportunity !

I think you mean Pakistan here.

Pakistan has been investing billions into Afghanistan while they cling to us as parasites or worse they eat us from the inside like termites -

Agreed. But its our failing also, we need to work on more visible projects like the Indians. Maximum public exposure means maximum support.

There should be reciprocity there; come what may we should make it abundantly clear to them that if you're going engage in the BS of ages past whereby you allow Separatists to train & find sanctuaries on your land, are going to refuse to recognize the Durand Line & let us regulate it as an International Border or are going to allow Proxies of different countries to be used against Pakistan like you did in the '90s - Then let alone trade...everything will off the table & then don't blame us if decide to safe-guard our interests in Afghanistan using whatever it is at our disposal !

All in due time, first few hits are free.

Sethi Sahib do you also keep a 'chiryaa' like your more famous Uncle ?

Did the chiryaa tell you this ?

Butt Sahab, don't force me to have you dismissed and take over as interim @Armstrong

 

[OrionHunter]

Its like saying a Neighbor who encroaches on your land with a view to making it his own that why don't you allow me a path to your neighbor on the other side going through your territory !

If not through Pakistan, then the way forward is to build a mile high elevated corridor over Pakistan from India to Afghanistan!! But then we'll be encroaching on Pakistan's airspace! Damn! I think the only alternative is to dig a tunnel deep under Pakistan!

 

[OCguy]

As others have mentioned, I think Pakistan has an enormous interest in keeping non-Afghan fundamentalists' influence over the Kabul government to a minimum.

I fear that there is not much anyone can do to keep a Taliban-type cultural influence from returning to prominence when the US no longer protects the central government's security to the extent it does now. However, there is a big difference between a fundamentalist Islamic culture, and such a culture being used as a front for the aspirations of foreign terrorism as we are seeing currently in Pakistan's remote region(s), and pre-2002 Afghanistan.

 

[Malghani]

The Pak-Afghan relations were closest during Taliban regime but with the event of 9/11, After Pakistan allied with USA in the “Global War on Terror” to eliminate al-Qaida. The on going war in Afghanistan has grave geo strategic consequences for Pakistan. It has paid huge cost in the form of militant insurgency in its tribal areas, religious extremism, domestic terrorism, drone strikes and public mistrust of this war. Historically speaking, the importance of Afghanistan for Pakistan can hardly be underestimated.

The post-2014 US exit scenario presents opportunities and challenges for Pakistan-Afghanistan relations. The gradual withdrawal of ISAF/ NATO troops from Afghanistan will help facilitate the reconciliation process inside Afghanistan resulting in regional peace and stability. The US troops and NATO-led ISAF will hand over power and military command to the Afghan government, Afghan National Army (ANA) and Afghan National Police (ANP) which as yet are not trained enough. Pakistan can be a key player in the politics and security of Afghanistan. There are growing concerns regarding Indian role in Afghanistan, cross border insurgency, drone strikes, blame on Pakistan by Afghanistan over the assassination of Burhanuddin Rabbani or its backing of terrorists elements like the Haqqani network, besides growing mistrust of the Karzai’s regime with the Pakistani establishment Thus, co operation between Pakistan and Afghanistan is needed to rid Afghanistan from terrorism, radicalism and violence.
Firstly, both the countries should try to resolve their decades old differences. Confidence and security building measures are required to improve relations.

Secondly, Pakistan is committed to pursue the strengthening of economic relations and deepening of engagement and cooperation with Afghanistan. It has offered 2,000 fully funded scholarships to the Afghan students. Pakistan is the largest trading partner of Afghanistan while Afghanistan is Pakistan’s third largest trading partner. The two countries are presently engaged in negotiating a new Afghanistan-Pakistan Transit Trade Agreement to regulate and further facilitate transit of Afghan trade through Pakistan.

A robust trade and economic interaction in the form of TAPI project and Silk Route are the way forward in the future of Pakistan- Afghanistan relations. And lastly, Pakistan has a constructive role to play in forging a durable political settlement in Afghanistan after NATO withdrawal from the region. Pakistan favours a stable and a prosperous Afghanistan. It has always supported President Hamid Karzai’s peace efforts in dismantling the terrorist’s threat. Pakistan favours an Afghan-led and Afghan-owned process of reconciliation with the Taliban or the Haqqani network which is vital for peace, stability and prosperity of the region. @Aeronaut

 

[Ijaz Ahmad Zarrar]

Since Afghanistan is land locked, Pakistan should go out of it's way to allow duty free commerce thru it's Gwadar Port into Afghanistan. The two nations can work out a commerce treaty with a simple percentage of either gross or net revenue of all such commerce earned by Afghan businesses and/or the Afghan government.

Separately, Afghanistan would do well to develop a similar commercial treaty with Iran.

Exactly...

 

[wiseone2]

That's another matter, right now we're concerned with the trade routes passing through Pakistan.



Precisely through that reason, if they have legal access to the Pakistani and Indian market, that might give them a reason to abstain from smuggling and they'll be a lot more hesitant to seed extremism in Pakistan if it means that it is their own trade that will be disrupted as a result.



Keep your friends close but your enemies closer.

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