What's new

Oldest primate fossil yet found. It is a tiny Chinese Archicebus fossil

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Oh that evolution...Well, I do believe in microevolution but not jumping species ....

thats the thing genius, no one has been able to prove it



Well, that THE KIND of EVOLUTION...jumping of species level is possible at Human level...or even evidence that such things can happen...or occurrence of such a thing....and if it were the case, why havent the rest of the apes evolved to something else?

Yes, that is correct. What could be the reason?
 
. . . .
I find it hilarious when creationist try to blow holes in the concept of evolution, while their explanation doesn't have an ounce of credibility.
 
.
Yes, that is correct. What could be the reason?

there is no dearth of literature about evolution.
Whenever you have a 'gotcha' moment about something widely acceptable as true, try to investigate a little.
You will avoid many of my own stupid inventions (which I realized other did too afterwards) , like getting infinite source of energy from fan by hooking it up with a turbine.. :lol:

Here is a good source, be careful where you learn your stuff from.
TalkOrigins Archive: Exploring the Creation/Evolution Controversy
 
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ask away I will try to help...I am no expert still studying

Talon, since you are studying genetics, I guess, you may well explain this in a layman's way. I think you have already noticed this post.

@Pyre,

this is what wanted to say...

30lc742.png

2s6txtl.png

mrbho3.png


note this in particular

2re42uc.png

Now, what I want to know is whether the native East Asian Y chromosomes which just died out according to the study, mentioned above, had anything to do with the East Asians (now known as Chinese) living on the other side of the Himalayas. When I see the Google map, removing the cartographic barriers between India and China and simply with the Himalayas as the natural barrier, it appears that the entire Asian region, say the South Asian + South East + East as well as North East Asian regions were contiguous homeland for that particular type of Y Chromosome before the migration of other human species.

I somehow believe that the Y Chromosome, under discussion, had existed millions of years ago even before the Gondwana moved eastward and rammed into Asia giving rise to the Himalayas and the Tibetan plateau. Interesting to note that the term Gondwana derived from the central Indian forests of Gond tribes who had genetic similarities with the Australian natives. So, this was for the first time, another race came to Asia and came into conflict with the Proto East Asians giving rise to the typical native South Asians who still had that particular Y Chromosome. The natural barrier Himalayas could not resist the human movement across it. In North East India, such Y Chromosome is still predominant.

Now, when the Aryans aka Caucasoids aka Indo Europeans came to the subcontinent, they replaced the proto East Asian Y Chromosome with that of theirs. The mtDNA however remained lingering for a long period but it also somehow reshaped the Indo European Y chromosome to some extent. Now, does this explain that the native East Asian aka the distant relatives/ancestors of the modern Chinese could not withstand the superior Aryan Y Chromosome and simply got extinct as the genetic study shows?

I think you did not miss this news back in 2009: Ancestors of Chinese came from India

Ancestors of Chinese came from India: Study - Times Of India

I am sure the DNA samples collected from India are not of the Indo European north Indians but the native tribal populations who are at the bottom of the Hindu caste system. I am also sure that nobody from India migrated to China before the Aryan invasion but as the native proto East Asian populations interbred with the newly arrived Australoid Y chromosome after Gondwana joined itself with Asia, the samples as a result carried the proto Chinese aka East Asian mtDNA that is still prevalent in the tribal female populations.

What is your opinion? I don't know whether I have explained it well or not.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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I find it hilarious when creationist try to blow holes in the concept of evolution, while their explanation doesn't have an ounce of credibility.
That in fact applies to CreatorLessevolutionists. There isn't an iota of proof that proves transformation from one being to another. Homology is NO proof. Ford, Honda, Toyota all have homologous structures & all are designed. Various aeroplanes have homologies & all are created.
Yes they do, Homologous structures can be anything! Doesnt show much...
If Homology was proof of spontaneous-CreatorLess-evolution, then fork must have evolved from spoon, spork being intermediary.
-
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12184234/img/Anonymous/Evolution-ofFork.jpg
Evolution-ofFork.jpg

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http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260312/img/Anonymous/Fork-Evolution.jpg
Fork-Evolution.jpg

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http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260319/img/Anonymous/Devolution.jpg
Devolution.jpg

-
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260329/img/Anonymous/Devolution2.jpg
Devolution2.jpg

-
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260335/img/Anonymous/Devolution3.jpg
Devolution3.jpg

-
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260366/img/Anonymous/Atheism.jpg
Atheism.jpg

-




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If CreatorLess-Spontaneous-evolution & natural selection were true, then there won't be any fried chicken...

http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/224523_422149884511372_1051024222_n.jpg
224523_422149884511372_1051024222_n.jpg



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Q:52:35-36: Were they created of nothing, or were they the creators (of themselves)? (35) Or did they create the skies and the earth? Rather they are not certain. (36)

.

When some one talks of "Evolution" they actually mean "Spontaneous Evolution", "Creator-Less Evolution" through series of "random chance" processes; helped by "Natural Selection". This is NOT supported by ANY evidence discovered so far. If evolution(spontaneous) was true, there must have been thousands of minute changes observed; say between monkey-like alleged ancestors & humans. All we see is SUDDEN emergence of difference species without any evidence of thousands of gradual transformations. The best they could come up with was resemblances from species to species; which is basically saying that fork evolved from spoon bcoz they resemble. And we know it is NOT true. Both were designed & resemblances only means that they have similar use. Different tea-cups in my cupboard have resemblances too, again bcoz of similar use. Same with boats all designed to sail on water; hence the resemblances in shape. Airplanes ALL built to fly in air; hence ALL have wings & rudder. All these resemblances were chosen by designers bcoz they served the purpose the best. Other thing evolutionists talk of are DNA changes;; established science tells us that DNA only deteriorates under natural conditions.That's the reason increasing maternal age is associated with rise in birth defects in babies, like Down's syndrome.


ONLY "controlled" manipulation of DNA results in improved & added features. Like insulin gene added to bacterial DNA to make it produce insulin for diabetes patients. This is done in "controlled" way by scientists. Similarly evolution if happened was a "CONTROLLED" evolution, NOT a spontaneous one.



=

=

=



1430+ years ago this book was written down. It describes event in the lines of Big-Bang theory & evolutionary concept of life-forms starting in water.

-

Quran:21:30:- Do not the Unbelievers see that the SKIES AND THE EARTH WERE JOINED TOGETHER as one unit, before We parted them? (***Big Bang Theory***) We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (***just like evolution teaches that life & early beings started in water then later came to land***)

-

51:47:-With the power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of Space.(other translation reads “expanding universe”)

http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/lockers/users/f/felder/public/kenny/papers/cosmo.html

-

Q:79.30 . And the Earth, after that, He made it egg-shaped.

-

Q:39.5:He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His laws of physics He invented), each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power― He Who forgives again and again?

-

Q:24:45:-And God has created every animal from water(***As evolutionary theory says life started in water bodies***)...



=

=

=



Why aren't we told EVERYTHING in detail??? Bcoz that would nullify the very purpose of creation of mankind. We've been tasked to "DISCOVER"; put the intellect we`re given to some use to discover CREATOR thru His creation. appreciate Him, recognize Him, & His exalted stature. And give Him due respect.

-

Quran:29:19-20:-Do they not see how God begins the Creation, then repeats it? That is easy for God (to do). Say: "Travel through the Earth and see how He began the Creation.

-

14:19:God hath created the heavens and the earth with a purpose?

-

40:67:- It is He Who has created you from dust, then from a drop, then from a leech-like (fetus); then does He get you out (into the light) as a child: then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old― though of you there are some who die before;― and lets you reach a Term appointed: in order that ye may learn WISDOM.



=

=

=



Human are NOT the end point of the CONTROLLED-evolutionary process; rather a separate creation. Asexual reproduction in lower beings would have continued for it's simplicity if spontaneous-evolution was true. Emergence of 2 genders is contrary to Natural Selection bcoz nature would have eliminated any being that evolved WITHOUT ability to beget. So all males would have been dropped out :) Also presence of variety of races & languages goes against spontaneous-evolution:-

-

30:21:-Among His Signs is this that He created you from dust; and then Behold ye are men scattered (far and wide)! (20) And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put affection between you; verily in that are Signs for those who reflect (ponder).

-

30:22:- And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colours: verily in that are Signs for men of knowledge.

-

35:11:- God created you from dust, then from a little fluid, then He made you pairs (the male and female). No female beareth or bringeth forth but He has knowledge of it. And no-one groweth old who groweth old, nor is aught lessened of his life, but it is recorded in a Book, Lo! that is easy for God.

-

32:7-9:-He Who has made everything which He has created most Good. He began the creation of man with clay (7) And made his progeny from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised: (8) But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give! (9)

-

6:2:-He it is Who hath created you from clay, and hath decreed a term for you. A term is fixed with Him. Yet still ye doubt

-

15:26:- We created man from sounding (potter's) clay, from mud moulded into shape;

-

18:37:- His companion said to him, in the course of the argument with him: "Dost thou deny Him Who created thee out of dust then out of a drop (of seed), then fashioned thee into a man?

-

55:14:- He created man of sounding clay (like the potter's),

-

=

=

=



Embryological stages described in a non-technical layman terminology:-

At " leech-like" stage details of embryo is NOT visible to naked eye, it's ONLY the size of a pin-head, a microscope & staining techniques r needed to see the details. Which were NOT there 1400+years ago. Even by 8th week when organogenesis is complete, fetus is just 1.5 cm.

---

71:14:-Seeing that it is He that has created you in diverse stages?

---

40:67:- It is He Who has created you from dust, then from a drop, then from a leech-like (fetus); then does He get you out (into the light) as a child: then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old― though of you there are some who die before;― and lets you reach a Term appointed: in order that ye may learn WISDOM.

---

23.12-14 We created the human being from a product of wet earth; (12)

Then, We placed it as a nutfah (fertilized egg) in a safe (deep) lodging; (13)

Then, We created the nutfah into an alaqa (leech-like fetus).

Then, We created the alaqa into mudghah (a little lump, like a chewed substance).

Then, We created the mudghah into bones. (cartilage bones starts to form in week-5, ossification starts in week-6)

Then, We clothed the bones with flesh. (Muscle start to condense aroun6 bones in week-7)

Then, We produced it (the human being) as another creation.

So blessed be God, the Best of creators! (14)

---

82:7-8:- Who created thee, then fashioned, then proportioned thee.(7) Into whatsoever form He will, He casteth thee. (8)



(Earliest conception looks nothing like human; then it takes human form & then some appendages/viscera grow bigger & some grow shorter i.e proportioned.)

---

7:11:- It is We who created you and gave you shape;

---

---

---

Embryological location of origin of gonads (Testes & Ovaries):-



http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/11445837/img/Anonymous/Q.86-5---7.jpg

.

In picture below the whitish colored Testes DESCENDING(Proceeds from) after it's formation in chest region (between ribs & spine)



http://www.netterimages.com/images/vpv/000/000/005/5106-0550x0475.jpg



Testes on 8 weeks>>>11 weeks>>>4 lunar months>>>8 lunar months...





Though Mesonephros originates in embryos chest region, this photo shows testes little below ribcage bcoz, as baby's abdomen grows long, a rope (Gubernaculum) attached to testes doesn't grow so it pulls testes down & testes ends up in abdomen region. Process of baby's growth continues while that rope stays the same length..... so testes keeps coming down & down until it ends up in scrotum.





Ovaries go through same descend but stop their journey inside pelvis

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Embryological development of limbs (Upper & Lower):-

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http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/11445981/img/Anonymous/Quran.23.14.jpg

.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1287982-overview



I quote:-

"

The limb bud continues to grow outward from the ventral wall, and at day 32 it develops a somewhat flattened, paddle-shaped hand plate (8-mm crown-to-rump length). During the fifth week, differentiating mesenchymal cells condense in a proximal-to-distal fashion to form blastemas, which eventually develop into cartilaginous models of, ultimately, the bones of the upper extremity. At this time, nerve ingrowth from the rami of the spinal cord also occurs proximally. By day 41, the mesenchyme condenses within the hand plate to delineate digital rays, beginning with the border rays. During the sixth week, hyaline cartilage models of the proximal bones of the extremity are formed.



In the seventh week, the upper extremity continues outgrowth and rotates 90° so that the elbows project posteriorly and the developing hands lie on the anterior thorax. At this time, the cartilaginous models of the proximal bones are undergoing ossification at ossification centers within the diaphysis of each model. Mesenchymal cells derived from the dermomyotome condense within connective tissue (mesenchymal) scaffolds to form 2 common muscle masses. They are immediately penetrated by the spinal nerves. These dorsal and ventral common muscle masses split later to form the muscles of the extensor and flexor compartments, respectively.

"

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Re-making of a thing already should be easier than making it first time:-

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21:47:We shall set up scales of justice for the day of Judgment, so that not a soul will be dealt with unjustly in the least. And if there be the weight of a mustard seed(of good or bad deed), We will bring it (to account): and enough are We to take account.

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50:15:-Were We then weary with the first Creation, that they should be in confused doubt about a new Creation? (resurrection).

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17:49-51:- They say: "What! when we are reduced to bones and dust, should we really be raised up (to be) a new creation?" (49) Say: "(Nay!) be ye stones or iron, (50) "Or created matter which, in your minds, is hardest (to be raised up)--(yet shall ye be raised up)!" Then will they say: "Who will cause us to return?" Say: "He Who created you first!" Then will they wag their heads towards thee, and say "When will that be?" Say "May be it will be quite soon! (51)

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13:39-41:- Thy duty is to make (the Message) reach them: it is Our part to call them to account. (40) See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders?(receding continents!!!)

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21:44:see they not that we gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise

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http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/01/rise-in-sea-level-cant-be-stopped-scientists-say

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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57495243/continental-u.s-glaciers-receding-at-alarming-rate/

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/sep/14/arctic-sea-ice-smallest-extent?intcmp=239



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Biology books even to date teach some lies; following picture was in my biology book, & is in books all over the world. This is a fake drawing by Ernst Haeckel proven to be a fraud more than a century ago (first time in 1874) but for some reason they liked to keep this fraud in books to brain-wash students. Top row is fake pictures by Haeckel & bottom row is what they actually look like at that particular stage.

.

http://truedino.com/embryo2.jpg



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17:49-51:- They say: "What! when we are reduced to bones and dust, should we really be raised up (to be) a new creation?" (49) Say: "(Nay!) be ye stones or iron, (50) "Or created matter which, in your minds, is hardest (to be raised up)--(yet shall ye be raised up)!" Then will they say: "Who will cause us to return?" Say: "He Who created you first!" Then will they wag their heads towards thee, and say "When will that be?" Say "May be it will be quite soon! (51)

-

14:19:- Beholdest thou not that Allah hath created the heavens and the earth with a purpose? If He willed He would make you pass away and bring a creation new.
 
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I find it hilarious when creationist try to blow holes in the concept of evolution, while their explanation doesn't have an ounce of credibility.

Do you knew that blind evolution is more like a sieve when it is used as a base for discussion
 
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Talon, since you are studying genetics, I guess, you may well explain this in a layman's way. I think you have already noticed this post.



Now, what I want to know is whether the native East Asian Y chromosomes which just died out according to the study, mentioned above, had anything to do with the East Asians (now known as Chinese) living on the other side of the Himalayas. When I see the Google map, removing the cartographic barriers between India and China and simply with the Himalayas as the natural barrier, it appears that the entire Asian region, say the South Asian + South East + East as well as North East Asian regions were contiguous homeland for that particular type of Y Chromosome before the migration of other human species.

I somehow believe that the Y Chromosome, under discussion, had existed millions of years ago even before the Gondwana moved eastward and rammed into Asia giving rise to the Himalayas and the Tibetan plateau. Interesting to note that the term Gondwana derived from the central Indian forests of Gond tribes who had genetic similarities with the Australian natives. So, this was for the first time, another race came to Asia and came into conflict with the Proto East Asians giving rise to the typical native South Asians who still had that particular Y Chromosome. The natural barrier Himalayas could not resist the human movement across it. In North East India, such Y Chromosome is still predominant.

Now, when the Aryans aka Caucasoids aka Indo Europeans came to the subcontinent, they replaced the proto East Asian Y Chromosome with that of theirs. The mtDNA however remained lingering for a long period but it also somehow reshaped the Indo European Y chromosome to some extent. Now, does this explain that the native East Asian aka the distant relatives/ancestors of the modern Chinese could not withstand the superior Aryan Y Chromosome and simply got extinct as the genetic study shows?

I think you did not miss this news back in 2009: Ancestors of Chinese came from India

Ancestors of Chinese came from India: Study - Times Of India

I am sure the DNA samples collected from India are not of the Indo European north Indians but the native tribal populations who are at the bottom of the Hindu caste system. I am also sure that nobody from India migrated to China before the Aryan invasion but as the native proto East Asian populations interbred with the newly arrived Australoid Y chromosome after Gondwana joined itself with Asia, the samples as a result carried the proto Chinese aka East Asian mtDNA that is still prevalent in the tribal female populations.

What is your opinion? I don't know whether I have explained it well or not.

I need a clear mind to read and digest this....currently am just relaxing...
 
.
That in fact applies to CreatorLessevolutionists. There isn't an iota of proof that proves transformation from one being to another. Homology is NO proof. Ford, Honda, Toyota all have homologous structures & all are designed. Various aeroplanes have homologies & all are created.

If Homology was proof of spontaneous-CreatorLess-evolution, then fork must have evolved from spoon, spork being intermediary.

-
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12184234/img/Anonymous/Evolution-ofFork.jpg
Evolution-ofFork.jpg

-
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260312/img/Anonymous/Fork-Evolution.jpg
Fork-Evolution.jpg

-
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260319/img/Anonymous/Devolution.jpg
Devolution.jpg

-
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260329/img/Anonymous/Devolution2.jpg
Devolution2.jpg

-
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260335/img/Anonymous/Devolution3.jpg
Devolution3.jpg

-
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260366/img/Anonymous/Atheism.jpg
Atheism.jpg

-

-
If exaggerated forms of evolution & natural selection was true, then there won't be any fried chicken...
.
.
.
.
.
.Q:52:35-36: Were they created of nothing, or were they the creators (of themselves)? (35) Or did they create the skies and the earth? Rather they are not certain. (36)

.

When some one talks of "Evolution" they actually mean "Spontaneous Evolution", "Creator-Less Evolution" through series of "random chance" processes; helped by "Natural Selection". This is NOT supported by ANY evidence discovered so far. If evolution(spontaneous) was true, there must have been thousands of minute changes observed; say between monkey-like alleged ancestors & humans. All we see is SUDDEN emergence of difference species without any evidence of thousands of gradual transformations. The best they could come up with was resemblances from species to species; which is basically saying that fork evolved from spoon bcoz they resemble. And we know it is NOT true. Both were designed & resemblances only means that they have similar use. Different tea-cups in my cupboard have resemblances too, again bcoz of similar use. Same with boats all designed to sail on water; hence the resemblances in shape. Airplanes ALL built to fly in air; hence ALL have wings & rudder. All these resemblances were chosen by designers bcoz they served the purpose the best. Other thing evolutionists talk of are DNA changes;; established science tells us that DNA only deteriorates under natural conditions.That's the reason increasing maternal age is associated with rise in birth defects in babies, like Down's syndrome.


ONLY "controlled" manipulation of DNA results in improved & added features. Like insulin gene added to bacterial DNA to make it produce insulin for diabetes patients. This is done in "controlled" way by scientists. Similarly evolution if happened was a "CONTROLLED" evolution, NOT a spontaneous one.



=

=

=



1430+ years ago this book was written down. It describes event in the lines of Big-Bang theory & evolutionary concept of life-forms starting in water.

-

Quran:21:30:- Do not the Unbelievers see that the SKIES AND THE EARTH WERE JOINED TOGETHER as one unit, before We parted them? (***Big Bang Theory***) We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (***just like evolution teaches that life & early beings started in water then later came to land***)

-

51:47:-With the power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of Space.(other translation reads “expanding universe”)

http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/lockers/users/f/felder/public/kenny/papers/cosmo.html

-

Q:79.30 . And the Earth, after that, He made it egg-shaped.

-

Q:39.5:He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His laws of physics He invented), each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power― He Who forgives again and again?

-

Q:24:45:-And God has created every animal from water(***As evolutionary theory says life started in water bodies***)...



=

=

=



Why aren't we told EVERYTHING in detail??? Bcoz that would nullify the very purpose of creation of mankind. We've been tasked to "DISCOVER"; put the intellect we`re given to some use to discover CREATOR thru His creation. appreciate Him, recognize Him, & His exalted stature. And give Him due respect.

-

Quran:29:19-20:-Do they not see how God begins the Creation, then repeats it? That is easy for God (to do). Say: "Travel through the Earth and see how He began the Creation.

-

14:19:God hath created the heavens and the earth with a purpose?

-

40:67:- It is He Who has created you from dust, then from a drop, then from a leech-like (fetus); then does He get you out (into the light) as a child: then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old― though of you there are some who die before;― and lets you reach a Term appointed: in order that ye may learn WISDOM.



=

=

=



Human are NOT the end point of the CONTROLLED-evolutionary process; rather a separate creation. Asexual reproduction in lower beings would have continued for it's simplicity if spontaneous-evolution was true. Emergence of 2 genders is contrary to Natural Selection bcoz nature would have eliminated any being that evolved WITHOUT ability to beget. So all males would have been dropped out :) Also presence of variety of races & languages goes against spontaneous-evolution:-

-

30:21:-Among His Signs is this that He created you from dust; and then Behold ye are men scattered (far and wide)! (20) And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put affection between you; verily in that are Signs for those who reflect (ponder).

-

30:22:- And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colours: verily in that are Signs for men of knowledge.

-

35:11:- God created you from dust, then from a little fluid, then He made you pairs (the male and female). No female beareth or bringeth forth but He has knowledge of it. And no-one groweth old who groweth old, nor is aught lessened of his life, but it is recorded in a Book, Lo! that is easy for God.

-

32:7-9:-He Who has made everything which He has created most Good. He began the creation of man with clay (7) And made his progeny from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised: (8) But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give! (9)

-

6:2:-He it is Who hath created you from clay, and hath decreed a term for you. A term is fixed with Him. Yet still ye doubt

-

15:26:- We created man from sounding (potter's) clay, from mud moulded into shape;

-

18:37:- His companion said to him, in the course of the argument with him: "Dost thou deny Him Who created thee out of dust then out of a drop (of seed), then fashioned thee into a man?

-

55:14:- He created man of sounding clay (like the potter's),

-

=

=

=



Embryological stages described in a non-technical layman terminology:-

At " leech-like" stage details of embryo is NOT visible to naked eye, it's ONLY the size of a pin-head, a microscope & staining techniques r needed to see the details. Which were NOT there 1400+years ago. Even by 8th week when organogenesis is complete, fetus is just 1.5 cm.

---

71:14:-Seeing that it is He that has created you in diverse stages?

---

40:67:- It is He Who has created you from dust, then from a drop, then from a leech-like (fetus); then does He get you out (into the light) as a child: then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old― though of you there are some who die before;― and lets you reach a Term appointed: in order that ye may learn WISDOM.

---

23.12-14 We created the human being from a product of wet earth; (12)

Then, We placed it as a nutfah (fertilized egg) in a safe (deep) lodging; (13)

Then, We created the nutfah into an alaqa (leech-like fetus).

Then, We created the alaqa into mudghah (a little lump, like a chewed substance).

Then, We created the mudghah into bones. (cartilage bones starts to form in week-5, ossification starts in week-6)

Then, We clothed the bones with flesh. (Muscle start to condense aroun6 bones in week-7)

Then, We produced it (the human being) as another creation.

So blessed be God, the Best of creators! (14)

---

82:7-8:- Who created thee, then fashioned, then proportioned thee.(7) Into whatsoever form He will, He casteth thee. (8)



(Earliest conception looks nothing like human; then it takes human form & then some appendages/viscera grow bigger & some grow shorter i.e proportioned.)

---

7:11:- It is We who created you and gave you shape;

---

---

---

Embryological location of origin of gonads (Testes & Ovaries):-



http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/11445837/img/Anonymous/Q.86-5---7.jpg

.

In picture below the whitish colored Testes DESCENDING(Proceeds from) after it's formation in chest region (between ribs & spine)



http://www.netterimages.com/images/vpv/000/000/005/5106-0550x0475.jpg



Testes on 8 weeks>>>11 weeks>>>4 lunar months>>>8 lunar months...





Though Mesonephros originates in embryos chest region, this photo shows testes little below ribcage bcoz, as baby's abdomen grows long, a rope (Gubernaculum) attached to testes doesn't grow so it pulls testes down & testes ends up in abdomen region. Process of baby's growth continues while that rope stays the same length..... so testes keeps coming down & down until it ends up in scrotum.





Ovaries go through same descend but stop their journey inside pelvis

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Embryological development of limbs (Upper & Lower):-

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http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/11445981/img/Anonymous/Quran.23.14.jpg

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Medscape: Medscape Access



I quote:-

"

The limb bud continues to grow outward from the ventral wall, and at day 32 it develops a somewhat flattened, paddle-shaped hand plate (8-mm crown-to-rump length). During the fifth week, differentiating mesenchymal cells condense in a proximal-to-distal fashion to form blastemas, which eventually develop into cartilaginous models of, ultimately, the bones of the upper extremity. At this time, nerve ingrowth from the rami of the spinal cord also occurs proximally. By day 41, the mesenchyme condenses within the hand plate to delineate digital rays, beginning with the border rays. During the sixth week, hyaline cartilage models of the proximal bones of the extremity are formed.

In the seventh week, the upper extremity continues outgrowth and rotates 90° so that the elbows project posteriorly and the developing hands lie on the anterior thorax. At this time, the cartilaginous models of the proximal bones are undergoing ossification at ossification centers within the diaphysis of each model. Mesenchymal cells derived from the dermomyotome condense within connective tissue (mesenchymal) scaffolds to form 2 common muscle masses. They are immediately penetrated by the spinal nerves. These dorsal and ventral common muscle masses split later to form the muscles of the extensor and flexor compartments, respectively.

"

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Re-making of a thing already should be easier than making it first time:-

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21:47:We shall set up scales of justice for the day of Judgment, so that not a soul will be dealt with unjustly in the least. And if there be the weight of a mustard seed(of good or bad deed), We will bring it (to account): and enough are We to take account.

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50:15:-Were We then weary with the first Creation, that they should be in confused doubt about a new Creation? (resurrection).

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17:49-51:- They say: "What! when we are reduced to bones and dust, should we really be raised up (to be) a new creation?" (49) Say: "(Nay!) be ye stones or iron, (50) "Or created matter which, in your minds, is hardest (to be raised up)--(yet shall ye be raised up)!" Then will they say: "Who will cause us to return?" Say: "He Who created you first!" Then will they wag their heads towards thee, and say "When will that be?" Say "May be it will be quite soon! (51)

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13:39-41:- Thy duty is to make (the Message) reach them: it is Our part to call them to account. (40) See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders?(receding continents!!!)

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21:44:see they not that we gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders?

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Current sea level rise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Rise in sea level can

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Continental U.S. glaciers receding at alarming rate - CBS News

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Arctic sea ice shrinks to smallest extent ever recorded | Environment | guardian.co.uk

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Biology books even to date teach some lies; following picture was in my biology book, & is in books all over the world. This is a fake drawing by Ernst Haeckel proven to be a fraud more than a century ago (first time in 1874) but for some reason they liked to keep this fraud in books to brain-wash students. Top row is fake pictures by Haeckel & bottom row is what they actually look like at that particular stage.

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http://truedino.com/embryo2.jpg



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17:49-51:- They say: "What! when we are reduced to bones and dust, should we really be raised up (to be) a new creation?" (49) Say: "(Nay!) be ye stones or iron, (50) "Or created matter which, in your minds, is hardest (to be raised up)--(yet shall ye be raised up)!" Then will they say: "Who will cause us to return?" Say: "He Who created you first!" Then will they wag their heads towards thee, and say "When will that be?" Say "May be it will be quite soon! (51)

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14:19:- Beholdest thou not that Allah hath created the heavens and the earth with a purpose? If He willed He would make you pass away and bring a creation new.

I've seen a lot of oxymoronic posts here,But never seen anything of this scale.Alas,Creationists never fail to amuse me.:lol:
 
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Do you knew that blind evolution is more like a sieve when it is used as a base for discussion

Theory of evolution is a thoery where more concrete evidence is needed to establish it as a fact..... whereas the counter to theory of evolution is the angry guy in the sky, adam and eve non-sense.

your pick chief

That in fact applies to CreatorLessevolutionists. There isn't an iota of proof that proves transformation from one being to another. Homology is NO proof. Ford, Honda, Toyota all have homologous structures & all are designed. Various aeroplanes have homologies & all are created.

If Homology was proof of spontaneous-CreatorLess-evolution, then fork must have evolved from spoon, spork being intermediary.
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http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12184234/img/Anonymous/Evolution-ofFork.jpg
Evolution-ofFork.jpg

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http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260312/img/Anonymous/Fork-Evolution.jpg
Fork-Evolution.jpg

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http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260319/img/Anonymous/Devolution.jpg
Devolution.jpg

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http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260329/img/Anonymous/Devolution2.jpg
Devolution2.jpg

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http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260335/img/Anonymous/Devolution3.jpg
Devolution3.jpg

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http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260366/img/Anonymous/Atheism.jpg
Atheism.jpg

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If CreatorLess-Spontaneous-evolution & natural selection were true, then there won't be any fried chicken...

http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/224523_422149884511372_1051024222_n.jpg
224523_422149884511372_1051024222_n.jpg



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Q:52:35-36: Were they created of nothing, or were they the creators (of themselves)? (35) Or did they create the skies and the earth? Rather they are not certain. (36)

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When some one talks of "Evolution" they actually mean "Spontaneous Evolution", "Creator-Less Evolution" through series of "random chance" processes; helped by "Natural Selection". This is NOT supported by ANY evidence discovered so far. If evolution(spontaneous) was true, there must have been thousands of minute changes observed; say between monkey-like alleged ancestors & humans. All we see is SUDDEN emergence of difference species without any evidence of thousands of gradual transformations. The best they could come up with was resemblances from species to species; which is basically saying that fork evolved from spoon bcoz they resemble. And we know it is NOT true. Both were designed & resemblances only means that they have similar use. Different tea-cups in my cupboard have resemblances too, again bcoz of similar use. Same with boats all designed to sail on water; hence the resemblances in shape. Airplanes ALL built to fly in air; hence ALL have wings & rudder. All these resemblances were chosen by designers bcoz they served the purpose the best. Other thing evolutionists talk of are DNA changes;; established science tells us that DNA only deteriorates under natural conditions.That's the reason increasing maternal age is associated with rise in birth defects in babies, like Down's syndrome.


ONLY "controlled" manipulation of DNA results in improved & added features. Like insulin gene added to bacterial DNA to make it produce insulin for diabetes patients. This is done in "controlled" way by scientists. Similarly evolution if happened was a "CONTROLLED" evolution, NOT a spontaneous one.



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1430+ years ago this book was written down. It describes event in the lines of Big-Bang theory & evolutionary concept of life-forms starting in water.

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Quran:21:30:- Do not the Unbelievers see that the SKIES AND THE EARTH WERE JOINED TOGETHER as one unit, before We parted them? (***Big Bang Theory***) We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (***just like evolution teaches that life & early beings started in water then later came to land***)

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51:47:-With the power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of Space.(other translation reads “expanding universe”)

http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/lockers/users/f/felder/public/kenny/papers/cosmo.html

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Q:79.30 . And the Earth, after that, He made it egg-shaped.

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Q:39.5:He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His laws of physics He invented), each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power― He Who forgives again and again?

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Q:24:45:-And God has created every animal from water(***As evolutionary theory says life started in water bodies***)...



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Why aren't we told EVERYTHING in detail??? Bcoz that would nullify the very purpose of creation of mankind. We've been tasked to "DISCOVER"; put the intellect we`re given to some use to discover CREATOR thru His creation. appreciate Him, recognize Him, & His exalted stature. And give Him due respect.

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Quran:29:19-20:-Do they not see how God begins the Creation, then repeats it? That is easy for God (to do). Say: "Travel through the Earth and see how He began the Creation.

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14:19:God hath created the heavens and the earth with a purpose?

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40:67:- It is He Who has created you from dust, then from a drop, then from a leech-like (fetus); then does He get you out (into the light) as a child: then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old― though of you there are some who die before;― and lets you reach a Term appointed: in order that ye may learn WISDOM.



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Human are NOT the end point of the CONTROLLED-evolutionary process; rather a separate creation. Asexual reproduction in lower beings would have continued for it's simplicity if spontaneous-evolution was true. Emergence of 2 genders is contrary to Natural Selection bcoz nature would have eliminated any being that evolved WITHOUT ability to beget. So all males would have been dropped out :) Also presence of variety of races & languages goes against spontaneous-evolution:-

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30:21:-Among His Signs is this that He created you from dust; and then Behold ye are men scattered (far and wide)! (20) And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put affection between you; verily in that are Signs for those who reflect (ponder).

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30:22:- And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colours: verily in that are Signs for men of knowledge.

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35:11:- God created you from dust, then from a little fluid, then He made you pairs (the male and female). No female beareth or bringeth forth but He has knowledge of it. And no-one groweth old who groweth old, nor is aught lessened of his life, but it is recorded in a Book, Lo! that is easy for God.

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32:7-9:-He Who has made everything which He has created most Good. He began the creation of man with clay (7) And made his progeny from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised: (8) But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give! (9)

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6:2:-He it is Who hath created you from clay, and hath decreed a term for you. A term is fixed with Him. Yet still ye doubt

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15:26:- We created man from sounding (potter's) clay, from mud moulded into shape;

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18:37:- His companion said to him, in the course of the argument with him: "Dost thou deny Him Who created thee out of dust then out of a drop (of seed), then fashioned thee into a man?

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55:14:- He created man of sounding clay (like the potter's),

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Embryological stages described in a non-technical layman terminology:-

At " leech-like" stage details of embryo is NOT visible to naked eye, it's ONLY the size of a pin-head, a microscope & staining techniques r needed to see the details. Which were NOT there 1400+years ago. Even by 8th week when organogenesis is complete, fetus is just 1.5 cm.

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71:14:-Seeing that it is He that has created you in diverse stages?

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40:67:- It is He Who has created you from dust, then from a drop, then from a leech-like (fetus); then does He get you out (into the light) as a child: then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old― though of you there are some who die before;― and lets you reach a Term appointed: in order that ye may learn WISDOM.

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23.12-14 We created the human being from a product of wet earth; (12)

Then, We placed it as a nutfah (fertilized egg) in a safe (deep) lodging; (13)

Then, We created the nutfah into an alaqa (leech-like fetus).

Then, We created the alaqa into mudghah (a little lump, like a chewed substance).

Then, We created the mudghah into bones. (cartilage bones starts to form in week-5, ossification starts in week-6)

Then, We clothed the bones with flesh. (Muscle start to condense aroun6 bones in week-7)

Then, We produced it (the human being) as another creation.

So blessed be God, the Best of creators! (14)

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82:7-8:- Who created thee, then fashioned, then proportioned thee.(7) Into whatsoever form He will, He casteth thee. (8)



(Earliest conception looks nothing like human; then it takes human form & then some appendages/viscera grow bigger & some grow shorter i.e proportioned.)

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7:11:- It is We who created you and gave you shape;

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Embryological location of origin of gonads (Testes & Ovaries):-



http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/11445837/img/Anonymous/Q.86-5---7.jpg

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In picture below the whitish colored Testes DESCENDING(Proceeds from) after it's formation in chest region (between ribs & spine)



http://www.netterimages.com/images/vpv/000/000/005/5106-0550x0475.jpg



Testes on 8 weeks>>>11 weeks>>>4 lunar months>>>8 lunar months...





Though Mesonephros originates in embryos chest region, this photo shows testes little below ribcage bcoz, as baby's abdomen grows long, a rope (Gubernaculum) attached to testes doesn't grow so it pulls testes down & testes ends up in abdomen region. Process of baby's growth continues while that rope stays the same length..... so testes keeps coming down & down until it ends up in scrotum.





Ovaries go through same descend but stop their journey inside pelvis

---

---

Embryological development of limbs (Upper & Lower):-

.

http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/11445981/img/Anonymous/Quran.23.14.jpg

.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1287982-overview



I quote:-

"

The limb bud continues to grow outward from the ventral wall, and at day 32 it develops a somewhat flattened, paddle-shaped hand plate (8-mm crown-to-rump length). During the fifth week, differentiating mesenchymal cells condense in a proximal-to-distal fashion to form blastemas, which eventually develop into cartilaginous models of, ultimately, the bones of the upper extremity. At this time, nerve ingrowth from the rami of the spinal cord also occurs proximally. By day 41, the mesenchyme condenses within the hand plate to delineate digital rays, beginning with the border rays. During the sixth week, hyaline cartilage models of the proximal bones of the extremity are formed.



In the seventh week, the upper extremity continues outgrowth and rotates 90° so that the elbows project posteriorly and the developing hands lie on the anterior thorax. At this time, the cartilaginous models of the proximal bones are undergoing ossification at ossification centers within the diaphysis of each model. Mesenchymal cells derived from the dermomyotome condense within connective tissue (mesenchymal) scaffolds to form 2 common muscle masses. They are immediately penetrated by the spinal nerves. These dorsal and ventral common muscle masses split later to form the muscles of the extensor and flexor compartments, respectively.

"

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Re-making of a thing already should be easier than making it first time:-

-

21:47:We shall set up scales of justice for the day of Judgment, so that not a soul will be dealt with unjustly in the least. And if there be the weight of a mustard seed(of good or bad deed), We will bring it (to account): and enough are We to take account.

-

50:15:-Were We then weary with the first Creation, that they should be in confused doubt about a new Creation? (resurrection).

-

17:49-51:- They say: "What! when we are reduced to bones and dust, should we really be raised up (to be) a new creation?" (49) Say: "(Nay!) be ye stones or iron, (50) "Or created matter which, in your minds, is hardest (to be raised up)--(yet shall ye be raised up)!" Then will they say: "Who will cause us to return?" Say: "He Who created you first!" Then will they wag their heads towards thee, and say "When will that be?" Say "May be it will be quite soon! (51)

-

13:39-41:- Thy duty is to make (the Message) reach them: it is Our part to call them to account. (40) See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders?(receding continents!!!)

-

21:44:see they not that we gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders?

.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise

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http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/01/rise-in-sea-level-cant-be-stopped-scientists-say

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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57495243/continental-u.s-glaciers-receding-at-alarming-rate/

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/sep/14/arctic-sea-ice-smallest-extent?intcmp=239



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Biology books even to date teach some lies; following picture was in my biology book, & is in books all over the world. This is a fake drawing by Ernst Haeckel proven to be a fraud more than a century ago (first time in 1874) but for some reason they liked to keep this fraud in books to brain-wash students. Top row is fake pictures by Haeckel & bottom row is what they actually look like at that particular stage.

.

http://truedino.com/embryo2.jpg



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17:49-51:- They say: "What! when we are reduced to bones and dust, should we really be raised up (to be) a new creation?" (49) Say: "(Nay!) be ye stones or iron, (50) "Or created matter which, in your minds, is hardest (to be raised up)--(yet shall ye be raised up)!" Then will they say: "Who will cause us to return?" Say: "He Who created you first!" Then will they wag their heads towards thee, and say "When will that be?" Say "May be it will be quite soon! (51)

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14:19:- Beholdest thou not that Allah hath created the heavens and the earth with a purpose? If He willed He would make you pass away and bring a creation new.

Two Simple questions
How old is earth.

Who created the creator.
 
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