Officially becoming a secular liberal person

[EyanKhan]

No what you said was aql is only used by shia and is a no no in sunni...It is a no no in Saudi maybe because they like their clones who all think alike! And differences will make people think for themselves and realize that they are doing something stupid...this is the same with Iran in some sense...everyone is a zombie and following 1 thing without realizing if it is good or bad because that is all they are fed....

It is not accepted worldwide by sunnis except Shias not just the Saudis. It is the very differences in Sharia from small to big that could lead to conflict within the state!

 

[MM_Haider]

Shariah if the not different Mr you want to abuse Islam and Shariah by using indirect terms like Mullah its your choice but those who love Islam and want to be with RASOOL SAW have chosen Shariah and will keep choosing Shariah and enemies of RASOOL SAW choose secularism and other kinds of kufr

Zarvan, even if you want or don't want, you, yourself and the world you live in is a gift of secularism. If there were no secular countries in the world (who keep religion and state affairs separate) then non secular countries would have gone bankrupt. All non secular countries are dependent on secular countries. Democracy, human rights, constitutional and gender equality are the undeniable facts today which are essential to survive in today's world and you don;t have option to live without it.

This is secularism which doesn't let Muslims boycott the medicine and weapons as manufactured by secular countries and they have to stop at boycotting only chocolates from Denmark.

Secularism is not against religion. Rather this is the only school of thought which gives religious freedom.

So you are hypocrite if you reap the benefits of secularism and even then against it!

 

[Dubious]

Nope you see this is where the flexibility meets a crossroads , According to Sunnis an injunction not mentioned in the Quran or Sunnah has to be decided by Ijma or Qiyas ,

and how exactly do you think that these scholars do ijma or qiyas? obviously they read and think...if they cant think then ALLAH shouldnt have given human beings a brain coz it is not allowed to be used!

It is not accepted worldwide by sunnis except Shias not just the Saudis. It is the very differences in Sharia from small to big that could lead to conflict within the state!

If you are saying it is not accepted by Pakistan and Saudi I can accept but dont bring world wide just because some Mullah in India or Pakistan has declared so! They are Mullahs and that is all it is...to know the reality do your own research! I stopped listening to Mullahs when some bastard in Egypt started passing ridiculous fatwahs on women!

 

[Zarvan]

my question is no where in the Quran nor in the Sunnah was a child (boy) molested..no punishment is given...hence aql is necessary it is said in the Quran do justice but fear ALLAH (if Aql is not allowed then why say you are allowed to do justice but remember ALLAH is watching) because you are allowed to think and implement a punishment based on experience and pulling a number of jurisdictions and then passing a law or changing one....it is all allowed because Islam is for all of universe and until judgement day


We have surrogate mothers, artificial insemination, test tube babies...tell me which hadith mentions any of this?

Mr they all fall in category of Fasad Fil araz and rape with weather female child punishment is death all these matters were dealt in life of Sahabas Mr please first at least go and read Quran and Sunnah and Hadees and Islamic History

 

[EyanKhan]

If you are saying it is not accepted by Pakistan and Saudi I can accept but dont bring world wide just because some Mullah in India or Pakistan has declared so! They are Mullahs and that is all it is...to know the reality do your own research! I stopped listening to Mullahs when some bastard in Egypt started passing ridiculous fatwahs on women!

I am talking about scholars world wide and famous historical ones as well . If you ever have time please do read about the Abbasid empire and the causes of its decline . You'll find some very interesting points in there!

 

[Spring Onion]

hey guys just take a look at this thread



Vatican asked India for a religious undertaking: India refused says CBI Director


hopefully you will see what i am trying to point out

 

[Hyperion]

Welcome to the light my friend. I always knew you had some grey matter in you. Cheers!

Now, we have to do the impossible and show the path of light to a real fundo..... Zarvi..... mein aaa raha hoon'!

i have always supported a conservative islamic pakistan, but recent events and experiences in my life have changed my mind quite a bit. from here on i am official a liberal Pakistani and will always advocate for a secular democratic Pakistan.
i would like to apologize to some of the secular members on here for anything i might have said to them to make them mad or angry.

 

[Ammar65]

secularism to me = complete separation of masjid and state.
democracy= people choose a government of their choice.


always accepted diversity now i just don't want religion mixed in with politics, if it gets mixed then the other faiths won't be given full rights.


idk about zarvan. lol he is just crazy man.
people like zarvan just make me sick man, he so brian washed he doesn't even realize it.
I'm a muslim but if anybody insults my faith or something its not my job to defend it by attacking people, i will try reasoning with people if they don't understand i will simply ignore them.

Hmmm mr. I got ur point , do tell us abt ur experiences being a liberal in a liberal state, "pakistan"

 

[shuntmaster]

Mr we see and decide things in light of Quran and Sunnah if we don't find things in Quran and Sunnah we judge in light of Quran and Sunnah

Quran is believed to contain all knowledge that mankind will ever need...

 

[Zarvan]

Zarvan, even if you want or don't want, you, yourself and the world you live in is a gift of secularism. If there were no secular countries in the world (who keep religion and state affairs separate) then non secular countries would have gone bankrupt. All non secular countries are dependent on secular countries. Democracy, human rights, constitutional and gender equality are the undeniable facts today which are essential to survive in today's world and you don;t have option to live without it.

This is secularism which doesn't let Muslims boycott the medicine and weapons as manufactured by secular countries and they have to stop at boycotting only chocolates from Denmark.

Secularism is not against religion. Rather this is the only school of thought which gives religious freedom.

So you are hypocrite if you reap the benefits of secularism and even then against it!

Stop coming up with hilariously pathetic theories of yours what so called secularism has given is crap and shit

 

[Dubious]

Mr they all fall in category of Fasad Fil araz and rape with weather female child punishment is death all these matters were dealt in life of Sahabas Mr please first at least go and read Quran and Sunnah and Hadees and Islamic History

janaab....you should read the Quran and understand how Islam is not about murdering only....and then see the Prophet Sirah that he never called anyone Kafir...Only ALLAH can say that in the Quran...are you ALLAH? if not then stop your BS of labeling people! Read the Quran it says no compulsion in religion meaning no forcing ...

Read the Quran it says dont use foul language, dont hurt people and if people dont like to be called kafir then quit it!

Read the Quran it says dont sell your religion...so stop introducing new things like this is not allowed that is allowed...

Read the Quran and see how women are not oppressed....

Read the Quran and see it doesnt say you are above anyone or better than anyone...

See the prophet and learn how to respect women: Prophet's wife Khadijah was a business woman! Prophet's aunty was a warrior on the battle field! Aisha was a scholar who memorized hadith, his other wives were a slavewoman who was freed nevertheless was a born slave, a Jewish woman...converted later but he never forced her! She converted on her own will...

 

[Zarvan]

janaab....you should read the Quran and understand how Islam is not about murdering only....and then see the Prophet Sirah that he never called anyone Kafir...Only ALLAH can say that in the Quran...are you ALLAH? if not then stop your BS of labeling people! Read the Quran it says no compulsion in religion meaning no forcing ...

Read the Quran it says dont use foul language, dont hurt people and if people dont like to be called kafir then quit it!

Read the Quran it says dont sell your religion...so stop introducing new things like this is not allowed that is allowed...

Read the Quran and see how women are not oppressed....

Read the Quran and see it doesnt say you are above anyone or better than anyone...

See the prophet and learn how to respect women: Prophet's wife Khadijah was a business woman! Prophet's aunty was a warrior on the battle field! Aisha was a scholar who memorized hadith, his other wives were a slavewoman who was freed nevertheless was a born slave, a Jewish woman...converted later but he never forced her! She converted on her own will...

I read Quran almost on daily bases so stop telling Me you seriously need to study Islam first know my views before talking you are assuming some things and talking crap again and again so keep talking crap

 

[Dubious]

I am talking about scholars world wide and famous historical ones as well . If you ever have time please do read about the Abbasid empire and the causes of its decline . You'll find some very interesting points in there!

I prefer reading about sahaba rather than people who did something caused the decline of the empire and called themselves scholars! Abassid empire was good and mighty but it was all built up of what was already built! It only went to worse with people doing more sin and find ways to justify it prob that is why some scholars banned aql coz it can also be misused but I am also talking about scholars rather than backstreet mullahs!

Aql is necessary when a new case comes upon us and in todays world crimes are more heinous then they ever were!

I read Quran almost on daily bases so stop telling Me you seriously need to study Islam first know my views before talking you are assuming some things and talking crap again and again so keep talking crap

Mind your language...You read Quran everyday in Arabic? Do you bother reading the translation, the historical context or even the reason such an ayat was revealed? do you notice that some ayats were for that time only and some are commands for life? If no, do that first! Before maligning my beautiful religion and asking others to read the Quran is a quick way to escape answering for your own hate spreading! I have thanked your posts many a time but lately you have really gone off tangent in annoying people!

 

[EyanKhan]

Abassid empire was good and mighty but it was all built up of what was already built! It only went to worse with people doing more sin and find ways to justify it prob that is why some scholars banned aql coz it can also be misused but I am also talking about scholars rather than backstreet mullahs!

If you've never read about it how do you know? It shows us a picture of a society which in peace times got slowly divided along religious lines because everyone preferred their own version.

 

[Armstrong]

Welcome to the light my friend. I always knew you had some grey matter in you. Cheers!

Now, we have to do the impossible and show the path of light to a real fundo..... Zarvi..... mein aaa raha hoon'!

What about me ? I'm not a Secular or a Liberal ?