What's new

Of Pakistan, Terrorism, and Confusion

As paranoid as Pakistan is about India,,,I just dont see any reason practical or other wise that India wants to defeat, destablize or destroy Pakistan...first Pakistan is no threat to India,, India has 4 times the resources of Pakistan military and otherwise. So really Pakistan is no real threat...Pakistan is like a dog chaseing a car even if it caught India, it would not know what to do with it...
India would be out of their mind to try an occupie Pakistan its a good place to allow all the Muslim religious crazies to go..and what would India want with 150 million more backward muslims..I can think of lot more reasons India would not want Pakistan,, or Pakistan defeated or destablized, like India needs to do any thing to destablize Pakistan any more then it is....and in this room its allways the Pakistanis talking about war, seldom if ever people from India...
 
.
do you mind revealing your true identity please? I am really confused...

As paranoid as Pakistan is about India,,,I just dont see any reason practical or other wise that India wants to defeat, destablize or destroy Pakistan...first Pakistan is no threat to India,, India has 4 times the resources of Pakistan military and otherwise. So really Pakistan is no real threat...Pakistan is like a dog chaseing a car even if it caught India, it would not know what to do with it...
India would be out of their mind to try an occupie Pakistan its a good place to allow all the Muslim religious crazies to go..and what would India want with 150 million more backward muslims..I can think of lot more reasons India would not want Pakistan,, or Pakistan defeated or destablized, like India needs to do any thing to destablize Pakistan any more then it is....and in this room its allways the Pakistanis talking about war, seldom if ever people from India...
 
.
This article has been posted at least twice and discussed quite a bit.
 
.
What about all the conspiracy theories in the West against Pakistan? Who does that hurt or help?
 
. .
Please list few of them.

- Mullah Omar is in Quetta
- Mullah Omar is in Karachi
- Mullah Omar is in South Waziristan
- Osama bin Laden is in Bajaur
- Osama bin Laden is in Waziristan
- Attacks on the US are planned in Pakistan (no credible evidence has been presented of this, we are asked to rely on secret "intelligence reports". Though this may be true).
- Pakistan is not doing enough in the war (laughable).
- If the US loses the war in Afghanistan (highly likely), Pakistan is to blame.
- India is an "ally" in the War on Terror.
- Indians believe it is in their interest to help Pakistan fight terrorism (laughable, if we are to go by what I have seen on this forum).

We could go all day...

Mods, please close or merge this thread.
 
.
- Mullah Omar is in Quetta
- Mullah Omar is in Karachi
- Mullah Omar is in South Waziristan
- Osama bin Laden is in Bajaur
- Osama bin Laden is in Waziristan
- Attacks on the US are planned in Pakistan (no credible evidence has been presented of this, we are asked to rely on secret "intelligence reports". Though this may be true).
- Pakistan is not doing enough in the war (laughable).
- If the US loses the war in Afghanistan (highly likely), Pakistan is to blame.
- India is an "ally" in the War on Terror.
- Indians believe it is in their interest to help Pakistan fight terrorism (laughable, if we are to go by what I have seen on this forum).

We could go all day...

Mods, please close or merge this thread.

ahahahah :rofl::rofl::rofl: 101% RIGHT!
 
.
Daily Times

The Taliban Apologists

Obituaries are not quite my cup of tea. And frankly I have no emotional strength left to write one either. But what do you do when every day a violent incident claims several precious lives and you find yourself absolutely helpless? I have even tried to take refuge in humour and literature.

Death, undoubtedly, has a dark humour about it. The way we mortals just die despite our cosmic claims of centrality, the rituals of our departure and our burial to reprocess what remains of us all must appear funny to a neutral species, perhaps of an alien kind. No other species, after all, claims to attach so much importance to an individual life and yet contributes so enormously to its untimely demise. I even tried to write my own humorous obituary. But dear readers, the sheer frustration and helplessness keeps mounting every minute, nay every second.

Every other day someone calls to remind me who just died in another terror attack — an old friend, a distant relative, friend of a friend or a relative. The pace at which people are dying makes me wonder, will this country still be populated after a few years? And I have no answers. I have known some of the brightest souls die in the recent terror assaults. As a consequence I have been losing faith in religion, political governments, democracy and perhaps finally humanity.

My recent and perhaps the most critical loss of faith is caused by the insensitivity of those who want to rationalise our sufferings. Every day someone comes on television to either claim that the Taliban are good, or else this all would not have happened had we managed to stop the drone attacks. Likewise, some Platos go back to the very inception of the war on terror and question our decision to join it. “This is not our war and has never been,” they declaim with foam flying out of their mouths. Then there is the lot that concedes that it might have become our war and yet wants to spend almost the entire precious time dwelling upon the mistakes of the past.

As a viewer, a reader and as a citizen I have absolutely no tolerance left for the Taliban or their apologists. I do not care what the term actually means. All I know is that it is now being used by a host of politically-driven terror outfits and they all are bad in my humble opinion. And here for the first and perhaps the last time dear readers, I want to warn you of the techniques of their apologists and how they wreak havoc with your lives, since it is your precious lives that the terrorists are after.

Firstly and most importantly there are those who want you to believe that the Taliban are either doing the right thing or have the right idea about things. No gainsaying that this class is under pressure and gradually losing its appeal, but such elements are still out there. Otherwise what would you say to a print journalist who shows the gall of coming on television and citing the Quran unceasingly with the footage of a girl being lashed in Swat by the Taliban? Identifying this lot is critical because they often take refuge with you and me in the lawyers’ movement, the criticism of the NRO, and umpteen other such things, but in their heart of hearts, they want every secular government replaced by a horde of Taliban sympathisers. Such folks also try to remind you that there was no violence in the country before Pakistan sent its forces into its own tribal territories. What they do not want you to know is that cancer of all sorts stays dormant till the time you identify it and start attacking it with the right medication.

But fortunately for us, this tactic might be losing scope thanks to the callousness of the Taliban and other fanatics. Its place has been taken by the ones who want you to remain perpetually confused. This class wants you to believe in the most difficult and flimsy conspiracy theories ever conceived. Such people might have tried in the past to claim that the Taliban want to kill everyone in revenge, but today they see Blackwater, Xe or even the CIA in every suicide attack perpetrated in this country. This tale is crafted to keep you in a perpetual state of denial and to benefit from your ignorance by pressuring the government to call off the campaigns against the terrorists in the tribal areas. I cannot deny for a moment that Blackwater or Xe and even the CIA might be present in the country for security reasons. Our western peers of course consider it a war-affected area and countless foreigners have died here, so is it not natural for them to bring their security along? But even if there is any shoddy activity going on I have never seen one confession from such groups, whereas the Taliban had the cheek to call the Parade Lane Mosque, Masjid-e-Zarrar, after claiming responsibility for the outrage. You can stay in denial and by doing so help the terrorists to corner you like beasts of prey or you can shun such obfuscation and identify the real culprits.

Some readers and viewers have even mailed me some snapshots of the alleged terrorists’ dead bodies, which they claim were uncircumcised. By sending these pictures they imply that the Indians are working as the Taliban. Folks, if anything, I lack the temperament to study the graphic pictures of the dead terrorists and divine the nature of their circumcision from such gory scenes. And even if I could, it would hardly pass as prima facie evidence for this is not how you can tell anyone’s nationality. If India or other such groups are supporting the Taliban they must have left a money trail behind. With any luck evidence will be seized and a case built. However, thus far I have seen no such proof. Also the proponents of this school of thought can at least not deny that the Taliban are up to something.

But somehow Punjabi nationalism has also crept into the entire debate. We citizens of Punjab have proven more gullible in the past in buying the jihadi set of rationalisations. Since Osama and the Taliban were known to have shown more tolerance toward the Muslim Leagues based in Punjab, and make no mistake the province is inundated with the supporters of the Leagues, we find so many people resorting to generalisations like “no Muslim can attack a mosque” or “war can solve nothing” or “a Muslim army should not be fighting Muslims”. But guess what? This brand of Muslims not only attacks mosques but also takes pleasure in acknowledging it.

Let us face it. Our country is under attack from people who believe in the perversion of our faith. This gang of thugs is so reductionist in its worldview that it now considers the citizens of this country as its enemies. Our forces are fighting these enemies of civilisation, sacrificing their lives in the process, and seem to have struck some raw nerve of the terrorists recently. That is why the terror attacks are getting more desperate. That is also why the erstwhile critics of Pakistan in the western media are now reporting that al Qaeda is fleeing from the region. That way lies the solution of cleansing the country of such rogue elements. We must not waver and should stand with our forces as they reclaim our country from the terrorists. And for perhaps the first time dear readers, I implore you to boycott the apologists of the terrorists when they appear in the media, when they walk in your streets, or come to meet you. This we should do in the love of our dear ones who have so untimely departed.
 
.
^^^ Excellent article IMO - points to the root of the problem - some people refusing to accept that Pakistanis or 'Muslims' could be committing these heinous acts, instead of getting bogged down in the 'blaming India/US is a conspiracy theory'.

We need to focus on making more and more people understand that regardless of who might be bankrolling these terrorist acts, the people being bankrolled and massacring innocents are largely Pakistanis and 'Muslims'.
 
.
Today if you decide to kill your brother and Mr X provides you weapon and money who is at fault. It is the reasoning that makes you believe that you brother is your enemy that made you do this. You believed in this reasoning because your religious teacher made you believe this by misrepresenting religion. The core fault lies with your teacher who indoctrinated you and the government who turned blind eye on his classes( knowing fully well and party to it). The weapon seller is just taking advantage of situation but without your brother and his teacher he cannot do anything. Since brother is part of your home, fix the home.
 
.
DAWN Editorial

The story of five young men who made their way from Washington D.C. to Sargodha ostensibly in search of extremist indoctrination and possibly terrorist training is deeply unsettling.

Let’s drop the pretence of this being a purely law-enforcement issue: the latest incident is yet more evidence that Pakistan has become a magnet for those inspired by a millenarian doctrine that preaches hate and seeks to wreak devastation in the name of religion. Worse yet, there is no sign that the state is working to shut down this infrastructure of hate-mongering and religious indoctrination — meaning that almost inevitably aspiring foreign terrorists will meet real terrorists here and be able to carry out a terrorist plot somewhere. What then? Let us not fool ourselves, another 9/11, 7/7, Madrid train bombing or Mumbai-style attack and Pakistan will find itself in a corner, friendless and the focus of the world in a very negative way.

In the days after 9/11, according to a now-legendary apocryphal story, the Americans threatened to bomb Pakistan back into the Stone Ages. Nine years later, with international suspicions of Pakistan’s ‘problematic-ness’ buttressed by fact, the reaction to an attack in the US today that is linked to this country is something no Pakistani could want to see.

Looking at the world from inside Pakistan, it may not be clear just how poorly this country is viewed elsewhere. But there are frequent clues for those willing to connect the dots. For example, a BBC report has claimed that ‘Pakistanis are more likely to be turned down for visas to visit the UK than any other nationals.’ We have written previously about the injustices in the UK visa process for Pakistanis and those factors certainly have played a part in the 41 per cent rejection rate for family-visa applicants from Pakistan. But without a doubt, it is also the alarm over Pakistanis with links to or contacts with extremist groups and individuals who may be trying to enter the UK that has driven up the rejection rate for visa applicants.

Let us also be clear that shutting down the jihad and terrorism infrastructure in Pakistan is not just about helping the outside world. Clearly, any responsible nation has duties towards other nations. But the fact is, the biggest victim of terrorism so far has been Pakistan itself. Thousands upon thousands of people have been killed inside the country, with no end in sight. Spurring the killers is the same terrorist infrastructure that some foreign nationals are in search of. So we need to defeat that infrastructure and we need to defeat it primarily for our own sake.
 
.
DAWN Editorial
Let us also be clear that shutting down the jihad and terrorism infrastructure in Pakistan is not just about helping the outside world. Clearly, any responsible nation has duties towards other nations. But the fact is, the biggest victim of terrorism so far has been Pakistan itself. Thousands upon thousands of people have been killed inside the country, with no end in sight. Spurring the killers is the same terrorist infrastructure that some foreign nationals are in search of. So we need to defeat that infrastructure and we need to defeat it primarily for our own sake.

Lets gets one thing straight. You can't have it both ways. Pak can't use jihadists for state policy and yet hope it can escape its consequences. All the LeT, JUD JeM have to eliminated for your own sake. In any case these jihadists will never be able to drive India out of kashmir. Time to re-evaluate priorities.
 
.
I think Jihadi's serve multiple purposes. (and they come cheap)

1) Fight Indians for Kashmir (and because we are kafirs)
2) Avenge 1971 and rule India again (because eventually Muslims will dominate the world)
3) Pull Indians down off of their "Economic Horse" (recent phenomena)
4) Stop Indian Muslims from getting "Kafiraized" and bring them back to true "Islam" (good 15% of the "umma")

I guess it started out with number 1 and then number 2 got focus after 1971 and now number 3 has the spotlight (Mumbai is case in point). Next in line is number 4 and the most dangerous of all.

Lets gets one thing straight. You can't have it both ways. Pak can't use jihadists for state policy and yet hope it can escape its consequences. All the LeT, JUD JeM have to eliminated for your own sake. In any case these jihadists will never be able to drive India out of kashmir. Time to re-evaluate priorities.
 
Last edited:
.
Daily Times Editorial

Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani may be forgiven for what appeared to be a Freudian slip or wishful thinking when he said that the military offensive in South Waziristan was almost over. That may be the hidden desire of many people in Pakistan, but the facts on the ground belie that hope. Of course, the prime minister attempted to correct the inadvertent impression he created earlier by stating that a military operation was in the offing in Orakzai Agency. Read together, the two statements reflect the complexity of the fight against the Taliban. Earlier in Swat/Malakand and now in South Waziristan, while the military has succeeded by first ‘emptying the sea’, i.e. forcing people to flee the theatre of operations to save life and limb, and then being able to bring to bear its superior firepower against any one remaining, presumed to be a militant, the fact that the leadership in both Swat/Malakand and South Waziristan appears to have escaped to relative safety indicates the nature of the present struggle. Guerrillas will preserve themselves by moving away in the face of overwhelming force, in order to live to fight another day. Thereby they are simply following the guerrilla precept of using space, time and will against a superior enemy to grind down his capability and will to fight. The temptation to declare premature ‘victory’ therefore should be tinged with the caution that this is going to be a protracted war and it would benefit the effort if the people are made aware of this aspect of the matter so as not to be disillusioned by a seemingly endless conflict. The prime minister reflected that perception by pointing out that no timeline could be given for an end to any offensive.

The military’s operations have been steadily widening to other agencies from South Waziristan. Actions against militants are ongoing or being planned in the following agencies: Kurram, Khyber, Bajaur, Mohmand, and in the Lower Dir area. This is an indication that the militants, to escape the military’s onslaught, are dispersing to other agencies and carrying out attacks in those areas, partly to divert the main thrust of the military’s offensive by forcing a dispersal of troops, partly to keep the impression of a live and active movement intact. The pressures on the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan have been revealed by Interior Minister Rehman Malik’s statement that Hakeemullah Mehsud, the successor to slain Baitullah Mehsud and current leader of the Tehreek, has been suing for peace and sent four offers of talks, all of which have been rejected by the authorities. Wisdom has clearly dawned on the latter that this talk about talks is merely a diversionary tactic to gain time, regroup, and take the offensive again against the state’s forces. After Swat and the outcome of the previous ‘peace’ agreements between the militants and the authorities, little room is left for illusions about the militants’ aims or their intransigence in wanting to impose their deviant interpretation of Islam on Pakistan’s Muslims.

Despite the mounting toll of Taliban casualties and the increasing seizures of weapons, ammunition and equipment, it is best to shun illusions of an early or easy victory over a very determined foe driven by the blinkers of an ideology that brooks no opposition. If the ‘jannat’ (paradise) captured the other day is anything to go by, the modern day Hashashin are amongst us, brainwashing children to become suicide bombers in a dubious, barbaric cause. Pakistan must stay the course if we are to see the back of this malignancy. *
 
.
DAWN

Clear and Present Danger
Gul Imtiaz

Belief in conspiracy theories focusing on Pakistan is not only new, it is on the increase judging by the content of public blogs and TV talk shows.

One comes across a staggering number of people who are unwilling to look inward, instead placing all the blame on any combination of the CIA, the Federal Reserve, Mossad, RAW, the US, etc.

One natural reaction to this is to dismiss conspiracy theories as a folly present in every society. Still, in developed countries conspiracy theorists and their subscribers remain at the fringe.

In Pakistan’s context, conspiracy theories are on a different scale with different implications. Going by blogs, television and anecdotal conversations with educated and illiterate people, I would surmise we are talking about a frighteningly large proportion of the mainstream. Indeed, it is common to blame the Hindus and Jews for Pakistan’s security problems; the US, Blackwater and CIA for suicide attacks. And there is a total absence of introspection.

Why is the problem on such a large scale in Pakistan considering there are parallel demagogues in other countries? Why is the Pakistani public more susceptible than its western counterparts?

The answer can only be based on common sense since studies on the issue do not exist. The country is underdeveloped, lacks a decent social and physical infrastructure, its people don’t have access to economic or educational opportunities. Living in a war theatre, they face food and water insecurity and see themselves as victims.

Victims of whom, though? Not of themselves, no not even in part, but of the perfect villain (the US, Israel, India…), they are told by our local demagogues. And the reason? Pakistan is a Muslim country, and all the villains are waging a war against Islam. These conditions make for a fertile ground for the breeding and dissemination of conspiracy theories.

Once the black and white of it has been established, and the foreign culprits, states and agencies identified and accepted as the villains, any cooperation by the government with the evil forces is seen in the same light. This extends to fighting terrorism. Well-known proponents of conspiracy theories are continuously reducing complex geopolitical issues the country is in the middle of to simply a matter of Islam vs the West (also Israel and India). And on this canvas depicting the epic battle between Islam and the West/Zionism, our political and military leadership is being painted as ‘agents’ of CIA and the US.

The implications are grave. The common man is being prevented from seeing homegrown jihadism as a fundamental part of the problem. A housewife recently phoned in to a popular television programme on a day that a suicide bomber killed scores and, piously expressing her grief without condemning the act, said, ‘but first tell me who is behind all this?’ This attitude is typical.

As the spectre of imminent doom (the Taliban’s entry into Buner) receded some months ago, thanks to the current government and the armed forces undertaking to decisively push back the extremist insurgency, people started to lapse into their dimly lit comfort zone of conspiracy theories. Why? Because neither have the enabling conditions changed, nor have the leaders and proponents of conspiracy theories been confronted.

Demagogues like Dr Israr Ahmed and Zaid Hamid are playing the game unchecked and unchallenged. The political and military leadership, including President Asif Zardari, Interior Minister Rehman Malik and army chief Gen Parvez Kayani, is being painted as a traitor for fighting militancy. The implication is that by pitting the public against these symbols of the state, and the state’s battle with militancy, conspiracy theorists are turning the public against the state itself.

This is not the Pakistan of yesterday when great games were played and deals struck behind the public’s back, when the media was largely gagged and underdeveloped and, therefore, public opinion did not matter. If a war had to be fought, it was fought, and only sold as a jihad later on to the unknowing public, as Gen Ziaul Haq did in Afghanistan in the 1980s.

Today public opinion matters, as was evident in the case of Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry’s reinstatement, the demise of the National Reconciliation Ordinance, the repeal of governor’s rule in Punjab and the current reshuffle of some members of the federal cabinet. For this reason, the implications of conspiracy theories pitting the public against the state on a wide scale are grave.

In the media, there are two parallel universes operating, seemingly unaware of the existence of the other. That section of the media and analysts that carries on a rational debate on issues completely ignores conspiracy theorists. The other section, made up of specific anchors, columnists and programmes, carries on with these theories as if a rational world does not exist.

There are rare exceptions, for example Dawn columnist Nadeem Paracha’s solid response to Zaid Hamid’s theories, or Fasi Zaka’s excellent pieces on the subject about a year ago. But sadly, their words would have only reached the already converted.

The widespread culture of conspiracy theories, increasingly taking on an anti state complexion, is the ticking time bomb of today. It cannot be ignored. The two parallel universes of the Pakistani media must collide, and it is the rationalist section that must catalyse the confrontation — it is not in the interest of the other to do so.

It is imperative that space is reclaimed from conspiracy theorists, for the security of the state is threatened by it. Conspiracy theories are a clear, present and internal danger and the media must take direct action. For only the media and rational elements within civil society, be they defence analysts, politicians, lawyers, retired or serving servicemen, retired judges, cabinet ministers or ambassadors, can fight it. Such credible rationalists from civil society must be invited by the media to help fight this monster. This is an enemy that the security agencies cannot fight off.

Elements in our political leadership, like Punjab Law Minister Rana Sanaullah of the PML-N and Senior Minister NWFP Bashir Ahmed Bilour of the ANP, would also do well not to fan the ‘blame India’ trend for the sake of political expediency. Unfortunately, India is an easy target as it provides a ready excuse for security lapses, absolving to an extent the provincial and federal governments of the responsibility to ‘do more’.
 
.
Back
Top Bottom