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Of Pakistan, Terrorism, and Confusion

To Fundamentalist
We cannot discuss this as Mod said..
If you wanna talk we can talk by PM or you can start a new thread saying Theology...

If you want to...

I would like to know more about....

Regards
 
To Fundamentalist
We cannot discuss this as Mod said..
If you wanna talk we can talk by PM or you can start a new thread saying Theology...

If you want to...

I would like to know more about....

Regards

Appreciate you intrest in Islam ,who want to know more about islam Allah SWT give him more knowledge and tofeeq to practice islam.

I shall soon start new threads on different topics of islam , taqdeer,Iman, shariah law, Islam and sectarianism,islam and terrorism,jehad,dawat tableeg etc

Regards,
 
Wednesday, November 18, 2009
I cannot get the image of the young wounded soldier lying helplessly in the CMH out of my mind. His thin bullet-riddled body was covered with bandages, and his face was sad. He was 21 years old, my son's age, and when I prayed for his recovery he asked me to pray for Pakistan. 'Pakistan hai to hum hain'. Another young soldier said that the nation was not being told the truth. The casualties were far more than those being reported. His grievance? That precious lives were being sacrificed in a war which most political leaders said was not theirs. Not a single government representative has ever bothered to visit the troops to boost their morale.

I fail to understand that if my countrymen and women are being massacred, if my children are being killed and maimed, if my soldiers are coming home in coffins, then how is it not my war? Who are the people in the videos, cutting the throats of innocent citizens? Who was spewing poison in the FM broadcasts in Swat? Who is training young impressionable minds to blow themselves up in the name of God? Who challenged the writ of the state after the peace deal? Is Hakimullah an American, or was Baitullah a Jew, or is Fazlullah an Indian? And does it make any difference whether they are or not? For the mother who weeps over the ravaged body of her child, does the identity of the culprit matter? Were Mir Jafar or Brutus outsiders? Is it the name Taliban which is causing the problem? Are we really that stupid and naïve to fall for that argument?

I request those who are confused about whose war this is to visit the bullet-riddled soldiers, the three-year-old daughter of Pervez Masih, the recently widowed Nasreen bibi in Lal Kurti, the hospitals in Peshawar where injured children scream in agony, and the graveyards where families have buried the pieces of their loved ones. These are the victims of a split second of madness. Does it matter what these murderers call themselves? Whoever they are, and whoever is behind them, they are traitors and enemies of Pakistan and Islam. Unless we recognise the enemy within, we will end up in history books as a nation that once was.

Ghazala Minallah

Islamabad
 
Nadeem Piracha

Islamabad, November 18: Famous anti-India TV personality, Zion Hamid, was caught yesterday watching Shakuntali, a popular Indian TV soap opera. The discovery was made by one of his fans who Hamid thought was his milkman.

When Hamid opened his door, the fan heard and saw the TV in the background where episode No. 5, 904 of Shakuntali was running. Talking to this reporter, the fan said that he first thought it was a conspiracy, but after noticing the genuine red cap of Hamid, he was astonished.

Shaken, the fan, 23-year-old Abdul Karim, said: ‘I couldn’t believe it! What would Muhammad Bin Qasim think when he gets to hear about this?’

When told by this reporter that Qasim died hundreds of years ago, the fan accused him and his newspaper for working for Blackwater.

‘What you think you fool Mossad, CIA, Raw agent Qasim alive in our minds, hearts and lungs so oh you shut up!’ he added.

Talking to the media after the episode, Hamid accepted that he sometimes watches Indian soaps and that even though he is of the opinion that Hindus are paleed (dirty), there is no harm in watching them on TV because they can’t touch you and can’t cast their shadow over you.

He added that he also watches Indian soaps to decode the hidden plots of the Hindus to destroy Pakistan and Islam.

‘It was by decoding the dialogue of one such Indian TV soap that I was able to discover that the Mumbai attacks were actually planned and executed by Raw and Mossad,’ he explained.

He also said that he predicted the 9/11 attacks as a Zionist conspiracy back in 1996 by watching Dil Walay Dullaniya Lay Jain Gey on his VCD player over and over again.

‘It’s all there,’ he claimed. ‘And the songs aren’t all that bad either.’

Hamid was surrounded by a vocal group of fans at the press conference.

One Barkat Ali told the reporters: ‘What this happening? Attacking great man Zion, oh so brilliant genius zindabad, zindabad you kafir Western conspiracy US agent traitors fool, fool, fool!’

Another, Sharmeen Khan, a 25-year-old university student added: ‘What this nonsense of democracy because it only Hindu, American, Zionist, Papua New Guinnean plot to destroy beloved Pakistian zindabad, zindabad, zindabad!’

Kamran Ghani, a seven-month-old toddler also addressed the press conference. He said, ‘Goo goo gagagaga goo goo … burp!’

The fans then lifted Hamid on their shoulders and carried him to a nearby McDonald’s outlet where they all chanted slogans like ‘Amreeka ki ghulami namazoor’ over a couple of Big Macs, large Cokes and a romantic song sung by Wali Azmat called, ‘I hate Jews Yea, Yea, Yea,’ a song from Azmat’s forthcoming album, ‘Zionists ate my Homework.’

The album is dedicated to all the Taliban who died in American drone attacks. When asked why didn’t he also dedicate the album to all those who’ve died from Taliban’s suicide attacks, Azmat said, that there were no suicide bomb attacks in Pakistan and that all those people we see slaughtered and dismembered on our TV screens actually died from dengue fever. When asked how he can prove this, he said that one should watch the third season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

‘It’s all there,’ he claimed. ‘And the chicks aren’t all that bad either.’

Meanwhile in Lahore, Tehrik-e-Imran chief, Insaaf-e-Khan lauded Zion Hamid’s efforts for decoding vital truths about Hindu conspiracies from Indian soap operas.

Talking to a group of rabid rightwing columnists at his residence, the great Khan said that Pakistan was in great danger from all kinds of plots being hatched by its enemies, especially Asif Zardari Bhutto Zardari Bhutto, Bilawal Zardari Bhutto Zardari, and the ghost of late Benazir Bhutto.

‘This government is sucking the blood of poor Pakistanis,’ he told the rabid rightwing communists all of whom then started to sing the national anthem in unison.

‘This government has sold Pakistan’s strategic and political interests to America!’ Khan added, to which the rabid rightwing columnists started burning George Washington and Abraham Lincoln’s effigies.

Praising the columnists’ bravery, Khan promised them to meet again after he returned from New York where he will undergo a cheekbone operation.

The columnists informed him that they too will be in New York for sightseeing, except for one, who got up and started burning Henry Truman’s effigy. He was the one who failed to secure an American visa.

Khan termed this to be racial discrimination and a CIA conspiracy.

Later in the day, the issue was discussed on a famous TV talk show on a local news channel.

Participating in the show were the incensed columnist, a rabid rightwing reporter, a PPP Minster, and a woman in a burqa.

‘This is an outrage!’ said the reporter. ‘Blackwater is behind this,’ he announced.

When asked how he knew, he picked up a Class One children’s nursery rhymes book and claimed: ‘It’s all here. And the rhymes aren’t all that bad either.’

The PPP Minister, Rehman Malika Zardari Bhutto Zardari, promised that his government will look into the issue, to which the reporter landed a swift punch on Malika’s face.

When Malika’s bodyguards tried to stop the reporter, the talk show’s host accused the government of curbing the freedom of the press.

‘This is an outrage!’ he said. ‘I implore the Army to intervene, overthrow this incompetent government and impose martial law!’

Mr. Malika apologised and started to land punches on his own face saying that the government too believed in the freedom of the press.

This made the reporter very happy who asked Malika to raid book stores and confiscate all secular literature because solutions to Pakistan’s problems lie in jihadi literature.

‘It’s all there!’ he claimed. ‘And the topics aren’t all that bad either.’

Turning to the woman in a burqa, the show’s host asked if she agreed.

‘The real problem lies in women wearing jeans,’ she said.

The host asked her to elaborate, to which she said: ‘The real problem is in women wearing jeans.’

‘Yes, but can you please elaborate?’ asked the host.

‘The real problem lies in women wearing jeans!’ she said again.

‘Please elaborate,’ the host insisted.

‘But that’s all I was asked to say,’ she said.

‘By whom?’ inquired the host.

‘By you!’ she said.

‘This is an outrage!’ said Mr. Malika, and in response, the host punched him and proceeded to burn an American flag. He burned half of it and announced that the other half will be burnt later because he had to catch a flight.

‘To where?’ asked Mr. Malika.

‘California,’ said the host. ‘I have to attend my son’s graduation ceremony.’

Nadeem F. Paracha is a cultural critic and senior columnist for Dawn Newspaper and Dawn.com.
 
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the confusion in my opinion arises from the fact that the pakistanis en large and the TTP essentially follow the same philosophy, that of Islam.
being a good muslim, following the teachings of the mohammed and the quran, defending their ideology from the non-muslims and their stooges who want to corrupt and destroy it.

the difference is that while the pakistani viewpoint is moderate and more accommodating, the TTP viewpoint is not.

this is a case of moderates and extremists fighting it out.
whenever this happens, the moderates have very few options if they have to prevail.

they can not fight the extremists on the basis of ideology as in condemning the extremist ideology they are condemning their own. the only option left is to restructure their ideology and distance themselves from the extremist ideology.

the TTP wants to apply sharia law all over pakistan. which proud muslim will say that following sharia is wrong? so since following sharia is right and TTP is ensuring that sharia is followed, it must be doing the right thing. why should we fight someone doing the right thing?

this is an example of a problem which i believe is at the core of the confusion in pakistan minds.

in order to make sense of the world many blame india and US and the jews. they are the traditional bad guys. so the bad things that are being done must be their doing.

the above argument clearly separates the sharia enforcing TTP from the bad things that are happening.

i am not defending TTP, what they are doing is clearly wrong. i am just presenting what a not too well informed person might be thinking when faced with the dilemma that the existence and actions of TTP create for her.



the argument about TTP being good guys can infact be stretched to the following

the TTP wants to apply sharia law all over pakistan. which proud muslim will say
that following sharia is wrong? so since following sharia is right and TTP is ensuring that sharia is followed, it must be doing the right thing. why should we fight someone doing the right thing? the GoP wants to stop the TTP from enforcing the sharia. this means GoP doesnt want the sharia to be enforced. that means GoP is against islam. We need to defend islam. this means we should fight the GoP.
 
^^^ I don't necessarily see any confusion.

There is a legitimate reason to suspect Indian involvement in terrorism in Pakistan given India's past history in supporting terrorism against Pakistan (East Pakistan), the circumstantial evidence on display publicly as well as the GoP, Pak Military and Musharraf's statements about evidence that is not public.

Therefore Indian support for terrorism in Pakistan cannot be ruled out, just as some see nothing but Arabs crawling all over the place.

But as I have repeatedly said, who Pakistanis blame as being behind the Taliban and AQ is irrelevant - what is important is that they recognize that these groups need to be neutralized, regardless of who is supporting them.
 
Therefore Indian support for terrorism in Pakistan cannot be ruled out, just as some see nothing but Arabs crawling all over the place.

But as I have repeatedly said, who Pakistanis blame as being behind the Taliban and AQ is irrelevant - what is important is that they recognize that these groups need to be neutralized, regardless of who is supporting them.

Its fair to highlight indian involvement if the focus on such involvement is backed by credible info.

From what I've read, heard and seen to-date, I believe the Salafi Jihad Network is the primary (but not necessarily the only) sponsor of the TTP terrorists and their ilk. But thats just my opinion. :)

People are free to draw their own conclusions and can try to convince others of their viewpoint.

More importantly, while all groups like TTP obviously need to be neutralized, it is crucial we understand who is supporting the terrorist thugs. That is the only way we can effectively counter the master plotters behind the foot soldiers.

And to this end, dispassionately understanding the extent of behind the scenes terrorist support provided by the various suspects (Salafi Jihadis, India etc.) helps us develop a more targeted and calibrated anti-terrorist response.
 
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I agree with the first comment - indian involvement should not be ignored so long as the focus on india is not driven by hysterical conspiracy theories.

While all groups like TTP obviously need to be neutralized, it is also important to understand who is supporting them and to what extent. That is the only way we can intelligently counter the masterminds behind the foot soldiers.

And to this end, dispassionately understanding the extent of behind the scenes terrorist support provided by the various suspects (Salafi Jihadis, India etc.) helps us develop a more effective and calibrated anti-terrorist response.

TS,

I have nothing against exploring the ideological roots of this evil mindset, it is essential in countering terrorism long term.

But it also appears to me that in ridiculing those Pakistanis who suspect an 'Indian hand', some commentators are pushing a political agenda, which may be counterproductive in the immediate fight since it'll sow confusion. Ridiculing someones opinion or being dismissive of it is usually not a good way to get them to change it, and many of these commentators may end up pushing Pakistanis away from the more important message they have of 'fighting the immediate threat at home'.

I think both issues can be approached simultaneously.
 
TS,

I have nothing against exploring the ideological roots of this evil mindset, it is essential in countering terrorism long term.

I think both issues can be approached simultaneously.

I agree - both issues can be addressed at the same time.

One more point - highlighting the Salafi threat has short-term benefits as well in terms of countering or disrupting the funding, planning and indoctrination activities of the Salafi Jihad Network and its local stooges.
 
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There is a legitimate reason to suspect Indian involvement in terrorism in Pakistan given India's past history in supporting terrorism against Pakistan (East Pakistan), the circumstantial evidence on display publicly as well as the GoP, Pak Military and Musharraf's statements about evidence that is not public.

Therefore Indian support for terrorism in Pakistan cannot be ruled out, just as some see nothing but Arabs crawling all over the place.

But as I have repeatedly said, who Pakistanis blame as being behind the Taliban and AQ is irrelevant - what is important is that they recognize that these groups need to be neutralized, regardless of who is supporting them.

i accept that as long as the pakistani public identifies the TTP to be the bad guys its a good thing.

but the reason is just as important. even if indians and israelis and americans were supporting the TTP, the logic about not fighting someone trying to enforce the sharia still holds.

also in case the above mentioned are not involved(which has a decent probability) or not closely involved(high probablity), the efforts of the pakisani public will be misdirected. now they will look at the root cause to be outside pakistan and will try to fight it there. however the root cause will still be the ideology that TTP and pakistanis share.

you can not beat such an organization unless u beat its ideology. in this case by concentrating on external forces u ignore the ideology. the ideology will have supporters in the muslim world and they will provide TTP or one of its clones with weapons and funds and recruits. with that the TTP will live on and stay a pain in the a** for pakistan.

even if u beat the TTP the ideology will throw up another similar organization. u will end up fighting one organization after another as long as u dont fight the ideology. all your efforts in fighting the TTP will be in vain.
 
i accept that as long as the pakistani public identifies the TTP to be the bad guys its a good thing.

but the reason is just as important. even if indians and israelis and americans were supporting the TTP, the logic about not fighting someone trying to enforce the sharia still holds.

also in case the above mentioned are not involved(which has a decent probability) or not closely involved(high probablity), the efforts of the pakisani public will be misdirected. now they will look at the root cause to be outside pakistan and will try to fight it there. however the root cause will still be the ideology that TTP and pakistanis share.

you can not beat such an organization unless u beat its ideology. in this case by concentrating on external forces u ignore the ideology. the ideology will have supporters in the muslim world and they will provide TTP or one of its clones with weapons and funds and recruits. with that the TTP will live on and stay a pain in the a** for pakistan.

even if u beat the TTP the ideology will throw up another similar organization. u will end up fighting one organization after another as long as u dont fight the ideology. all your efforts in fighting the TTP will be in vain.

That is why the arguments must focus on all possibilities - as I said, the discussion on support from the Arab nations must not stop, nor should the discussion on the ideological roots of terrorism in Pakistan stop. But at the same time it would be naive to dismiss the possibility of Indian involvement as well.

My argument is that all of the above can take place simultaneously - India does not have to get some sort of 'Holy Cow' status in this debate.
 
Sir: With reference to the letter ‘Lame duck Taliban’ (Daily Times, November 19, 2009), Asad Khan is absolutely right when he says: “The Taliban are cowards who attack women and children in suicide attacks but are afraid of fighting the Pakistan military.” In fact, all terrorists are cowards as their main targets are unarmed people who are helpless.

This is why the Taliban have been bombing Peshawar daily. The slaughter of ordinary Pakistanis can only be stopped if the people rise up against the Taliban, eschewing their rabid anti-Americanism. They must realise that the Taliban are a far greater threat to the people of Pakistan and Afghanistan than any ‘enemy’ country.
MAHMOOD ELAHI
Ottawa, Canada
 
Sir: With reference to the letter ‘Lame duck Taliban’ (Daily Times, November 19, 2009), Asad Khan is absolutely right when he says: “The Taliban are cowards who attack women and children in suicide attacks but are afraid of fighting the Pakistan military.” In fact, all terrorists are cowards as their main targets are unarmed people who are helpless.

This is why the Taliban have been bombing Peshawar daily. The slaughter of ordinary Pakistanis can only be stopped if the people rise up against the Taliban, eschewing their rabid anti-Americanism. They must realise that the Taliban are a far greater threat to the people of Pakistan and Afghanistan than any ‘enemy’ country.
MAHMOOD ELAHI
Ottawa, Canada

Talaban are bombing ???? Which Talaban ?????? AT or TTP ?????

Western media supported by zoinists regimes and neo cons is playing big propoganda game to defame talaban were once gaining role model in Islamic world during their rule with out any foriegn aid they sucessfully run the country which was challenge to capitalisim and uni polar US agenda.

TTP was created by Mosad and Indian nexus to damage the image of Afghan Talaban .
 

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