OBL was in contact with members of Pakistan's spy agency: Report

[Najam Khan]

This cable has no sound statement, its entirely based on people's views. I assume, i suspect, i think...and the world here is believing in such loose talk...impressive!

To all, Indians accepting this Wiki leaks cable as a 'Word of God'..mark my words, next time when they will twist the direction of their guns...i hope you would accept that too

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Once again, Wikileaks 'revelations' just happen to suit American foreign policy objectives.

the contents of the "leak" are

email exchanges between the Americans about "suspicions" about "middle ranking Pal Military" and a retried ISI Director (not named but you know who) having links with OBL or knowing his whereabouts.

there is no evidence but the same suspicion and rhetoric that has been been leaking in CNN, Fox news and the web since the time of the invasion.

a similar story broke out few months back and i said back then that same leaks will continue to come again and agian with a bit of touching and facelift.

just like the "fresh" evidence against Iran is still based on a laptop the Americans got hold of about 8 or 10 years ago and base the information in it as an evidence of Iranian quest for Nuclear weapons.


watch this space, the similar "compelling " evidence will come out about 8 or 10 months time.
which will be yet again the same accusations and allegations. what you see everyday on the Western media.


I guess we must merge all these threads about these leaks and proofs into one sticky so that we can go through the evolution fo these so called proofs in one place.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

you Indians believe everything Uncle Sam tells you these days? Great going.

I have read the contents of the "leak"


the claim was made in emails allegedly from US-based security think tank Stratfor, which were published by the whistleblowing website WikiLeaks.

Stratfor warned ahead of publication it would make no comment on whether the emails were authentic or inaccurate.

The Pakistani government and military have denied knowing Bin Laden’s whereabouts. The Al Qaeda chief was killed in Abbottabad in May last year in a covert operation by US special forces.

One email from a senior Stratfor employee to colleagues says: “Mid to senior level ISI and Pak Mil with one retired Pak Mil General that had knowledge of the OBL arrangements and safe house.”

The messages go on to say that the names and specific ranks of these generals were unknown to the writer, but adds that US intelligence may have that information. The emails allege that as many as 12 officials may have known, but says it is unclear exactly what position they may have had or even if they were retired personnel.

now enjoy this bit.. from daily telegraph with no risk of sympathy towards Pakistan

Some of the emails being published "may be forged or altered to include inaccuracies; some may be authentic," the company statement said.
"We will not validate either. Nor will we explain the thinking that went into them. Having had our property stolen, we will not be victimised twice by submitting to questioning about them," the statement said.

pretty much sums it all up. And in case the Indians have missed the obvious.

these are the emails of American Think thanks where they are theorizing "the constant and frequent" contact of OBL with retired ISI chief Hamid Gul (not named) who has been retired long time ago. and some middle ranking Pak Military officers, which again is absurd because, they are constantly changed and posted out after a maximum of 2 years. and they have no say about who is going to replace them. so such secret is hard to keep without the approval and direction from the top. but which brings another question that will be asked by the same "middle ranking" officers that why are we fighting and suffering losses in WoT if we are to keep this shiekh hidden with us?

 

[Developereo]

I guess we much merge all these threads about these leaks and proofs into one sticky so that we can go through the evolution fo these so called proofs in one place.

There is another "leak" claiming that Israeli commandos with Kurdish help (Kurdish??) have already destroyed Iranian nuclear sites.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...ans-nuke-plans-wikileaked-stratfor-mails.html

“I think this is a diversion. The Israelis already destroyed all the Iranian nuclear infrastructure on the ground weeks ago,” one intelligence official wrote in an email dated November 14, 2011. “The current ‘let’s bomb Iran’ campaign was ordered by the EU leaders to divert the public attention from their at home financial problems."

It seems the CIA agents are on vacation and high school interns are writing their propaganda pieces now.

 

[SMC]

So again, can anyone comment on why are we taking internal emails seriously? I mean if that's the case, we may as well have believed that Iraq had WMDs. I haven't come across any significant proof against Pakistan or ISI.

The paranoia against ISI seems to be reaching new heights. The funny thing is these guys (Americans and Bharatis) call other paranoid. Yet look how paranoid they are about ISI - the spy agency of a country much smaller than them.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

So again, can anyone comment on why are we taking internal emails seriously? I mean if that's the case, we may as well have believed that Iraq had WMDs. I haven't come across any significant proof against Pakistan or ISI.

The paranoia against ISI seems to be reaching new heights. The funny thing is these guys (Americans and Bharatis) call other paranoid. Yet look how paranoid they are about ISI - the spy agency of a country much smaller than them.

internal emails can be serious if they go beyond the rhetoric of Fox news and an Internet Armchair Career BullShiityer.

if they really contain the substance like actual names of people with examples and instances without any ambiguity of the timeline then yes that can be useful.
otherwise these emails as as good as the PMs between the two trolls planning to spam a thread

I have gone through the so called leak of the think thank email

who is suspecting that there maybe people in Pakistani establishment who would have had contacts with OBL, one doesnt need to be an American think thank for that, many Pakistanis suspect that, I suspect that too, but there is nothing presented so far that I can use to grab our leadership by the collar and ask them why they put us through this WoT hell if we were to shelter that coward?

the think thank also admits that he doesnt know anyone, he cant name any one and doesn't have more informaiton and then suggests that "maybe" CIA will have more information on that possibility of the link.

Ok put that absurdity aside, the other contradictory point is the "constant" and "regular" contact with the Pakistani authorities, this is the guy who severed his ties with his former guests who are still giving their lives for him and he severed his ties with his own organisation and was virtually cut off from the decision making. yet he is foolish enough to stay in constant with some middle ranking Pak Army officer who would have just returned from WoT front and seen his fellow soldiers die at the hands of terrorists and then expects that the officer will keep quiet about it? although he might again be sent back to the front to loose his life?

ok a derogatory comment here would be that Pak Military officer doesn't value his life because he is a fanatic Muslim and all Muslims hate life so he doesn't care as long as he gets killed. ... but then what about the secrecy? how this can play out seamlessly and no one in the army blows the whistle or unintentionally says it to someone?

I was hoping that something will come out of the "treasure trove" that the Americans took away in OBL raid but the best that came out to implicate Pakistan was that "there maybe some Middle ranking officers who know OBL whereabouts" this might sell to civilian public that doest have the knowledge of how military works but not to someone who knows that the military personal are rotated constantly and in many cases they dont know who they are replacing or who is going to replace them so they cant take anyone in confidence to keep OBL a secret.

---------- Post added at 06:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:18 PM ----------

what does logic says?-

Any picture?- Any video of his body?-

why ev1 are silent over basic facts- proof of his death?-

For Indians its genetic problem to believe every thing white masters say- so i am not surprised-

lets leave that discussion aside, that will remain a mystery. the popular opinion says he was found and killed and thats the end of that and I go with that too.

what we are talking about is the PMs of American think tanks like any web forum here

 

[Abingdonboy]

Shock horror. So unexpected. No precedent at all, oh wait:

US: Pakistan's Spy Agency Is al-Qaeda Supporter - ISI's association with terror group used as an excuse to detain people

NATO report implies Pakistan's ISI supports al Qaeda as well - Threat Matrix

Reports: Pakistan Supports Taliban In Afghanistan : NPR


US report says Pakistan backing Taliban - FT.com


BBC News - Claim Pakistan 'supports Taliban'

Pakistan intelligence agency elements must stop support for Taliban, al-Qaeda: US - Telegraph


Osama killing confirms Pak-al Qaeda link - Pakistan News - IBNLive

Taliban, Al-Qaeda Sanctuaries in Pakistan: GMIC

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Everyone Please stay on the topic

which is about the supposed leaks and what compelling evidence they provide to confirm that OBL indeed was in constant contact with Pakistan Military.

linking 5 or 10 links of different sites with same allegations is not going to make the actual news anymore authentic.

read the contents of the leak too and decide if anything new is being said? and if the words like may have, suggestion, suspicion and unknown have any chance to be presented and accepted in a court?



And finally please refrain from posting and commenting if OBL was in the house during or before the raid because that drags the discussion off the topic.

 

[Windjammer]

you Indians believe everything Uncle Sam tells you these days? Great going.

Yea, small things amuse little minds, alas as always, they are condemned to be left with a wry smile.
On topic, Army has ridiculed the report as "kite flying".


Army rubbishes report of contacts between ISI, Bin Laden

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Army has strongly rejected a disclosure by whistle-blowing website WikiLeaks that indicated that al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden was in routine contact with several officials of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) while hiding in his Abbottabad compound.
The claim was made by US intelligence analysis firm Stratfor in emails published by WikiLeaks. The website has so far published 200 emails of the firm and will publish around five million emails on Monday.
The firm provides an analysis of world affairs to major corporations, military officials and government agencies and was once likened by an American business magazine to a ‘shadow CIA’.
Straftfor was shown the information papers collected from Bin Laden’s compound after the US special forces raid on May 2, 2011, which resulted in the al Qaeda chief’s death, said one of the emails.
The email, from a Stratfor analyst, suggested that up to 12 ISI officials knew of Bin Laden’s high-walled three-storey compound in Abbottabad.
The email did not name the officials involved, but added that the US could use the information as a bargaining chip in post-raid negotiations with Islamabad, which had rebuked Washington after being embarrassed by the unilateral covert operation.
One email from a senior Stratfor employee to colleagues stated: “Mid to senior level ISI and Pak Mil with one retired Pak Mil general that had knowledge of the OBL arrangements and safe house.”
The email went on to say that the names and specific ranks of these generals were unknown to the writer, but added that the US intelligence may have that information.
According to the BBC, the information was allegedly obtained from material taken from the compound last May, according to the email exchange, which took place in the weeks after the al Qaeda chief’s death.
It is unclear if the information was passed on to the Pakistani government but the employee is quoted as saying “I would not pass the info to the GOP [government of Pakistan], because we can’t trust them,” according to the BBC.
Rebuttal
The army, however, was quick to rebut the claim, terming it “rubbish”. In the past, the Pakistani government and military have avoided making public comments on WikiLeaks. However, the severity of the latest allegations appears to have compelled the military to react.
“Its rubbish and tantamount to kite flying; much farther from the truth,” Director General Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) Major General Athar Abbas told The Express Tribune on Tuesday.
CEO of Stratfor George Friedman also questioned the authenticity of the ‘stolen’ emails.“Today WikiLeaks is publishing the emails that were stolen in December. This is a deplorable, unfortunate − and illegal − breach of privacy,” Friedman said in a statement.

WikiLeaks: Army rubbishes report of contacts between ISI, Bin Laden – The Express Tribune

 

[Irfan Baloch]

waste of time really.

responding to the private messages of an American think thank gave it more credence than they are worth.
the highlight of the leak is that the think tank "thinks" that CIA "might" have information of a "possible" link of OBL with the Pakistani military.


wow... just the right food for the brain dead farts. it is getting boring to be honest now. I will check with admin if such threads in the future should be banned from PDF?
until CIA produces the "get well soon card signed by Kynai to Osama" along with a box of viagra from Zardari

Yea, small things amuse little minds, alas as always, they are condemned to be left with a wry smile.
On topic, Army has ridiculed the report as "kite flying".


Army rubbishes report of contacts between ISI, Bin Laden

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Army has strongly rejected a disclosure by whistle-blowing website WikiLeaks that indicated that al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden was in routine contact with several officials of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) while hiding in his Abbottabad compound.
The claim was made by US intelligence analysis firm Stratfor in emails published by WikiLeaks. The website has so far published 200 emails of the firm and will publish around five million emails on Monday.
The firm provides an analysis of world affairs to major corporations, military officials and government agencies and was once likened by an American business magazine to a ‘shadow CIA’.
Straftfor was shown the information papers collected from Bin Laden’s compound after the US special forces raid on May 2, 2011, which resulted in the al Qaeda chief’s death, said one of the emails.
The email, from a Stratfor analyst, suggested that up to 12 ISI officials knew of Bin Laden’s high-walled three-storey compound in Abbottabad.
The email did not name the officials involved, but added that the US could use the information as a bargaining chip in post-raid negotiations with Islamabad, which had rebuked Washington after being embarrassed by the unilateral covert operation.
One email from a senior Stratfor employee to colleagues stated: “Mid to senior level ISI and Pak Mil with one retired Pak Mil general that had knowledge of the OBL arrangements and safe house.”
The email went on to say that the names and specific ranks of these generals were unknown to the writer, but added that the US intelligence may have that information.
According to the BBC, the information was allegedly obtained from material taken from the compound last May, according to the email exchange, which took place in the weeks after the al Qaeda chief’s death.
It is unclear if the information was passed on to the Pakistani government but the employee is quoted as saying “I would not pass the info to the GOP [government of Pakistan], because we can’t trust them,” according to the BBC.
Rebuttal
The army, however, was quick to rebut the claim, terming it “rubbish”. In the past, the Pakistani government and military have avoided making public comments on WikiLeaks. However, the severity of the latest allegations appears to have compelled the military to react.
“Its rubbish and tantamount to kite flying; much farther from the truth,” Director General Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) Major General Athar Abbas told The Express Tribune on Tuesday.
CEO of Stratfor George Friedman also questioned the authenticity of the ‘stolen’ emails.“Today WikiLeaks is publishing the emails that were stolen in December. This is a deplorable, unfortunate − and illegal − breach of privacy,” Friedman said in a statement.

WikiLeaks: Army rubbishes report of contacts between ISI, Bin Laden – The Express Tribune

 

[killerx]

i head of new paksitasn isi cacme in top in agences around the world even better them cia raw no mach but how could they not know of osam living near an air base and the attack was near an army base pak armay did not have a single stringer or azan in the
base

 

[Windjammer]

The email, from a Stratfor analyst, suggested that up to 12 ISI officials knew of Bin Laden’s high-walled three-storey compound in Abbottabad.

“Mid to senior level ISI and Pak Mil with one retired Pak Mil general that had knowledge of the OBL arrangements and safe house.

Man, how conveniently this guy shoots in the dark.....what the hell, i say take your pick.

 

[surya kiran]

1. Stratfor is a private entity
2. Its a bunch of employees acting and discussing like journalists. Any newspaper in the world, would have the same kind of discussions between the editor and its reporter on the ground.
3. If it was 'authentic' and original content it would not be lying around on email servers on the internet.
4. If it was serious intelligence from an 'intelligence source' the source/hacker would have been in Guatnamo bay by now counting why he is still alive.
5. Anybody with a little bit of knowledge of South Asian affairs would have discussed the same things in the mail.
6. Now we know why GoI wants access to BB servers.
7. US humint did research for almost 2 yrs before they got a lock on OBL. Safe assumption, that, by now they would know who he was in contact with. No need for Stratfor for the same.

Just my 2 bits after reading the mail exchange.

Cheers!

 

[Irfan Baloch]

1. Stratfor is a private entity
2. Its a bunch of employees acting and discussing like journalists. Any newspaper in the world, would have the same kind of discussions between the editor and its reporter on the ground.
3. If it was 'authentic' and original content it would not be lying around on email servers on the internet.
4. If it was serious intelligence from an 'intelligence source' the source/hacker would have been in Guatnamo bay by now counting why he is still alive.
5. Anybody with a little bit of knowledge of South Asian affairs would have discussed the same things in the mail.
6. Now we know why GoI wants access to BB servers.
7. US humint did research for almost 2 yrs before they got a lock on OBL. Safe assumption, that, by now they would know who he was in contact with. No need for Stratfor for the same.

Just my 2 bits after reading the mail exchange.

Cheers!

I cant agree more on this

the thing is we talk much more like that here in the forum. and the only difference here is the leaked material is (sorry for repeating yet again) like a discussion that is being done as a PM (private message or an email) and what does it have? assumptions, and maybes and thats all there is, nothing more.

now almost all top and well respected (readers discretion) Western media outlets, both electronic and print ones are putting up this story on the front page (the same allegations and Maybe's) and our simpleton and naive internet, cable and dish user has his little brain overwhelmed with the amount of repeated transmissions of the same thing over and over again. the usual anchors and analysts are gathering up and bringing up the same story again. (the content still ambiguous and unadmittable according to law of evidence)

so this constant barrage on the viewer is like a brain washing and bringing his brain to a point where the difference between evidence and accusation is blurred.

re your point 3, how can this (leak) be any serious when the author states the inability to put a name or number of the alleged military men looking after Osama and then assumes that since CIA might have known about OBL- Pak Military connection SO its safe to assume that Osama had constant links with the Pak military, a kind of circular logic where an assumption and an allegation is used as a bases to prove each other.


And of course accept my thanks for analysing the story on its own merit and not making a judgement based on the fact that it implicates Pakistan

(Pakistanis are much more interested in knowing the truth that the rest of the world about how OBL was able to live in Abotabad & if there was really any active support from Pakistani establishment). but what we wont accept is the same old accusation yet again and being forced to accept it as a proof because 5 or 10 western media sites are quoting this story.