Obama says Palestine must be based in 1967 borders

[ephone]

1967 border is the last possibility to return to peace. U.N. has never recognized Israel's invasion and take-over since then.

Isn't Israel's refusal due to its worry about its safety? Well, how about U.S., NATO or even U.N. guarantee Israel's safety so that no Arab countries would ever think about invading Israel? In addition, U.N. can set up observation posts to monitor the peace after that. The observation force can come from U.S., NATO countries as well as arab countries nearby. As far as for Hamas, of course, it need officially recognize the official existence of Israel. If not, we should not blame Israel for not having the talk. The two major parties in Palestinian join force and they should both recognize the existence of Israel so as to have peace talk. Otherwise, there is nothing to talk about.

In case, there are still more attacks from the current west bank and gaza side, U.N. can authorize attacks back against those terrorists there, joint-special force to hunt down those terrorists as well. If Palestinian government will be found to have any support over those terrorists against Israel, I will support final annexation of those territory once for all. If that happens, Palestinians would have nobody but themselves to blame. Palestinians could try to set up their own country on Mars afterwards if possible since the chapter for them on earth is closed.

PM Netanyahu is the problem, he continues to refuse to compromise he even invoked (in the Press Conference at the White House today with Pres. Obama) the suffering if Jews in the 1940's in regards to the two-state solution, which I thought was a classical but pathetic attempt to attract sympathy...

He was very defiant and stated Israel can't go back to the 1967 border because that would displace many Jews, well how many Palestinians have been displaced? Don't leave Netanyahu to answer that one. Netanyahu also expanded the Israeli settlements into West Bank, strong violation. In essence PM Netanyahu doesn't believe in negotiation nor peace with Palestinian, he and his party benefit from status quo as it is the status quo that helped him get elected...

Pres. Obama should be more forceful with Israel and there should be consequences. EU, China, US, Muslim Countries (many), other countries and most importantly Palestinian faction support this plan.

 

[Meengla]

@ephone,
My God you are so predictable! You have swallowed the Israeli line fully. For Israel's position there are not many takers left in this world and yet you repeat the same bull which the Megaphone/Hasbara brigade spews out. It also helps me understand your posts about Pakistan and China.

 

[iPakMan]

1967 border is the last possibility to return to peace. U.N. has never recognized Israel's invasion and take-over since then.

Isn't Israel's refusal due to its worry about its safety? Well, how about U.S., NATO or even U.N. guarantee Israel's safety so that no Arab countries would ever think about invading Israel? In addition, U.N. can set up observation posts to monitor the peace after that. The observation force can come from U.S., NATO countries as well as arab countries nearby. As far as for Hamas, of course, it need officially recognize the official existence of Israel. If not, we should not blame Israel for not having the talk. The two major parties in Palestinian join force and they should both recognize the existence of Israel so as to have peace talk. Otherwise, there is nothing to talk about.

In case, there are still more attacks from the current west bank and gaza side, U.N. can authorize attacks back against those terrorists there, joint-special force to hunt down those terrorists as well. If Palestinian government will be found to have any support over those terrorists against Israel, I will support final annexation of those territory once for all. If that happens, Palestinians would have nobody but themselves to blame. Palestinians could try to set up their own country on Mars afterwards if possible since the chapter for them on earth is closed.

Calling the UN anti-Israel would be a very large understatement. NATO is pathetically weak, UNIFIL can`t even stop smuggling of weapons to Lebanon.
There are only 3 global great powers currently: USA, Russia and China. One is on our side, the other is on the Arab side and the third is only taking care of herself and herself only(China).
No country can guarantee the safety of Israel but Israel. There is a saying in Israel it goes like this "Im ein ani li, mi li?" Which means "If a person doesn`t take care of himself, who will?", it is up to Israel alone to take care of herself. And Israel will take care of herself, no matter what the world thinks we should do.

 

[ephone]

What exactly do you want anyway??? You want to erase Israel like that Iran crazy president???

@ephone,
My God you are so predictable! You have swallowed the Israeli line fully. For Israel's position there are not many takers left in this world and yet you repeat the same bull which the Megaphone/Hasbara brigade spews out. It also helps me understand your posts about Pakistan and China.

 

[ephone]

Well, if nobody wants to sit down to talk about peace, nothing can be done. If that is the case, no side need complain any further. You both got guns and you can pretty much kill each other as usual.

Nobody is sincere about peace and no side is realistic about what can be done to achieve peace. Terrorist activities will continue and bloody retaliation will ensue. The vicious circle will continue and you both will have more to bury each day.

The sorry part is that none of the two sides can enjoy a better life and both will go down together. Not like U.S., Russia and China which have the 2nd strike capability due to their technology capabilities as well as their geographical environment and size, Israel has the first one but not the 2nd one.

Just like you cannot prevent terrorist activities 100% in any time, would Israel be able to stop terrorists from getting WMD? Would you stop them from ever being used against you?

Calling the UN anti-Israel would be a very large understatement. NATO is pathetically weak, UNIFIL can`t even stop smuggling of weapons to Lebanon.
There are only 3 global great powers currently: USA, Russia and China. One is on our side, the other is on the Arab side and the third is only taking care of herself and herself only(China).
No country can guarantee the safety of Israel but Israel. There is a saying in Israel it goes like this "Im ein ani li, mi li?" Which means "If a person doesn`t take care of himself, who will?", it is up to Israel alone to take care of herself. And Israel will take care of herself, no matter what the world thinks we should do.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

A key factor in Israeli intransigence is the fact that America invariably gives Israel whatever it wants, whether money, military supplies or political support at the UN. The impression given by Israeli actions and inactions is that Israel doesn't really care much about what other countries think of it. The atrocities committed by Israeli troops and security forces are well documented and beyond dispute. Indeed, there are Israelis who are horribly embarrassed by the excesses of their country s coercive apparatus. However the Israeli peaceniks seem to be a small minority. Most Israelis seem to be proud of Israel's ability to defy the world's wishes for peace. There seems to be little real thought by most Israelis about a future of peaceful coexistence with Arab neighbours.

American foreign policy for the Mid East is controlled by Israel through AIPAC. Israel has repeatedly defied American wishes. It makes little sense that Israel, a small country with a population 1% of that of America could dominate US government policy. Yet Israel continues to throw her nose up and get her way it. It is as if Israel were already America's 51st state, except that if that were the case, US federal authorities would have to investigate the many reports of Israeli abuses of authority in how Palestinians are treated. Naturally Israel relishes its independent approach, because that gives it maximum freedom to do as it pleases, including the ability to ignore UN resolutions and international law.

 

[ephone]

The reality is that whether both sides can seek peace based on 1967 border.

Obama has said he supports this notion. What about Palestinian side?

Israel side does not like it. However, if Palestinian side also does not like it. Then there will be nothing at all.

A key factor in Israeli intransigence is the fact that America invariably gives Israel whatever it wants, whether money, military supplies or political support at the UN. The impression given by Israeli actions and inactions is that Israel doesn't really care much about what other countries think of it. The atrocities committed by Israeli troops and security forces are well documented and beyond dispute. Indeed, there are Israelis who are horribly embarrassed by the excesses of their country s coercive apparatus. However the Israeli peaceniks seem to be a small minority. Most Israelis seem to be proud of Israel's ability to defy the world's wishes for peace. There seems to be little real thought by most Israelis about a future of peaceful coexistence with Arab neighbours.

American foreign policy for the Mid East is controlled by Israel through AIPAC. Israel has repeatedly defied American wishes. It makes little sense that Israel, a small country with a population 1% of that of America could dominate US government policy. Yet Israel continues to throw her nose up and get her way it. It is as if Israel were already America's 51st state, except that if that were the case, US federal authorities would have to investigate the many reports of Israeli abuses of authority in how Palestinians are treated. Naturally Israel relishes its independent approach, because that gives it maximum freedom to do as it pleases, including the ability to ignore UN resolutions and international law.

 

[iPakMan]

The reality is that whether both sides can seek peace based on 1967 border.

Obama has said he supports this notion. What about Palestinian side?

Israel side does not like it. However, if Palestinian side also does not like it. Then there will be nothing at all.

What many don`t understand ephone, is that the Arabs do not want peace. They say they want a country of their own but they never said that that was their ultimate goal. Half of the Palestinians believe Israel belongs to them and that they should never stop until they have it all, how can we have peace with people that openly say they want to wipe out Israel from the map?
The only way to achieve peace is to find a partner that wants it and doesn`t half want it. Which means a partner who will stop the incitement against Israel and teach tolerance and not hatred, that isn`t Abu Mazen nor is it Hamas.
You only need to look one post above you to see the mindset of the Palestinians, they honestly believe they are the right ones in this conflict.

 

[ovarel]

how can we have peace with people that openly say they want to wipe out Israel from the map?

they have plenty reasons to get mad at you..

you are talking about finding a partner who teach tolerance..you guys are disgusting,always blaming the opposite,do you ever know whats the meaning of tolerance?you are the most radicalized and freak people in the ME ,yet you are disgustingly blaming others..here is your tolerance:

 

[iPakMan]

they have plenty reasons to get mad at you..

you are talking about finding a partner who teach tolerance..you guys are disgusting,always blaming the opposite,do you ever know whats the meaning of tolerance?you are the most radicalized and freak people in the ME ,yet you are disgustingly blaming others..here is your tolerance:

Again, another example here. I won`t say anything against the Turks because i know a lot of them are good people and unlike you.

 

[ovarel]

Again, another example here. I won`t say anything against the Turks because i know a lot of them are good people and unlike you.

good people unlike me?now i have been an evil person because of criticising israel..axis of evil

you can say anything you want regarding Turks and Turkey..just keep in mind that things you said about Turkey wouldnt change the facts about israel.

 

[ephone]

The pre-condition for Palestinian side is to recognize Israel's right of existence. If it does not do so, it should not blame anyone for not helping them to start peace talk. It seems that Palestinian Authority recognizes that but Hamas does not. However, it seems that even Hamas has softened its standpoint and both Palestinian groups have reconciled. If Hamas also decides to recognize Israel's right of existence, I think Israel need make adjustment as well.

The other pre-condition for Israel side is to recognize the necessity of division of Jerusalem and stop the settlement so that peace talk can start. Israel refusal to discuss Jerusalem is an absolute obstacle to peace talk just like Hamas' refusal to recognize Israel.

We have the consider the the geopolitical reality as well as its past links. After ottoman empire collapsed, countries in mid-east were formed based on belief as well as its tribal affiliations. Considering its dominating Muslim population, naturally there would NOT be any possibility to have another country set up based on different belief from Islam. Israel may say there was not a country then at the land where Israel and Palestinian stayed 70 or 80 years ago and those land were controlled by the British. Well, India was fully controlled by the British and some territories of China was partially controlled by British as well. However, it does not prevent those territories to return to its lawful owners. That is why I said if history played out naturally, those territories would either belong to an newly established Muslim country or belong to a neighboring Muslim country set up already.

Israel was already benefiting from U.K. and U.S. intervention and finally get a piece of land to set up its own country. Resentment from Muslim for this matter is indeed understandable. That is why conflicts there have never stopped. About Jerusalem, Israel first took over half of them and took over the other half by invasion in 1967, U.N. has never recognized that and has issued resolutions again and again for Israel to give it back.

Even though Israel ignored U.N. resolutions in the past due to U.S.'s support, now it is time for Israel decide whether it really wants peace or just wants to set up those impossible obstacle to make peace talk unable to start.

Well, if Israel indeed believe it is so militarily powerful and with the support of U.S., there is no need to talk peace with Palestinian. However, I have to say that god-given land cliché really does not play well to most outsiders even including your allies. There won't be any possibility of peace within that region. Palestinian side won't consider any peace talk without division of Jerusalem. The bloodshed will definitely continue.

The odd to have a major disaster there, , e.g. disaster from WMD, is higher and higher with time go by.

Honestly, I am only talking about it from outsider point of view. I am not having anti-semitism or anti-islam.

What many don`t understand ephone, is that the Arabs do not want peace. They say they want a country of their own but they never said that that was their ultimate goal. Half of the Palestinians believe Israel belongs to them and that they should never stop until they have it all, how can we have peace with people that openly say they want to wipe out Israel from the map?
The only way to achieve peace is to find a partner that wants it and doesn`t half want it. Which means a partner who will stop the incitement against Israel and teach tolerance and not hatred, that isn`t Abu Mazen nor is it Hamas.
You only need to look one post above you to see the mindset of the Palestinians, they honestly believe they are the right ones in this conflict.

 

[iPakMan]

The pre-condition for Palestinian side is to recognize Israel's right of existence. If it does not do so, it should not blame anyone for not helping them to start peace talk. It seems that Palestinian Authority recognizes that but Hamas does not. However, it seems that even Hamas has softened its standpoint and both Palestinian groups have reconciled. If Hamas also decides to recognize Israel's right of existence, I think Israel need make adjustment as well.

The other pre-condition for Israel side is to recognize the necessity of division of Jerusalem and stop the settlement so that peace talk can start. Israel refusal to discuss Jerusalem is an absolute obstacle to peace talk just like Hamas' refusal to recognize Israel.

We have the consider the the geopolitical reality as well as its past links. After ottoman empire collapsed, countries in mid-east were formed based on belief as well as its tribal affiliations. Considering its dominating Muslim population, naturally there would NOT be any possibility to have another country set up based on different belief from Islam. Israel may say there was not a country then at the land where Israel and Palestinian stayed 70 or 80 years ago and those land were controlled by the British. Well, India was fully controlled by the British and some territories of China was partially controlled by British as well. However, it does not prevent those territories to return to its lawful owners. That is why I said if history played out naturally, those territories would either belong to an newly established Muslim country or belong to a neighboring Muslim country set up already.

Israel was already benefiting from U.K. and U.S. intervention and finally get a piece of land to set up its own country. Resentment from Muslim for this matter is indeed understandable. That is why conflicts there have never stopped. About Jerusalem, Israel first took over half of them and took over the other half by invasion in 1967, U.N. has never recognized that and has issued resolutions again and again for Israel to give it back.

Even though Israel ignored U.N. resolutions in the past due to U.S.'s support, now it is time for Israel decide whether it really wants peace or just wants to set up those impossible obstacle to make peace talk unable to start.

Well, if Israel indeed believe it is so militarily powerful and with the support of U.S., there is no need to talk peace with Palestinian. However, I have to say that god-given land cliché really does not play well to most outsiders even including your allies. There won't be any possibility of peace within that region. Palestinian side won't consider any peace talk without division of Jerusalem. The bloodshed will definitely continue.

The odd to have a major disaster there, , e.g. disaster from WMD, is higher and higher with time go by.

Honestly, I am only talking about it from outsider point of view. I am not having anti-semitism or anti-islam.

I don`t believe you are an antisemitic or anti-muslim. You are entitled to your oppinion but allow me to correct you on one part. Israel was attacked by Arab countries multiple times before 67 and again during 67.
In May 1967, Nasser received false reports from the Soviet Union that Israel was massing on the Syrian border[18]. Nasser began massing his troops in the Sinai Peninsula on Israel's border (May 16), expelled the UNEF force from Gaza and Sinai (May 19) and took up UNEF positions at Sharm el-Sheikh, overlooking the Straits of Tiran.[19][20] Israel reiterated declarations made in 1957 that any closure of the Straits would be considered an act of war, or justification for war.[21][22] Nasser declared the Straits closed to Israeli shipping on May 22–23. On May 30, Jordan and Egypt signed a defense pact. The following day, at Jordan's invitation, the Iraqi army began deploying troops and armored units in Jordan.[23] They were later reinforced by an Egyptian contingent. On June 1, Israel formed a National Unity Government by widening its cabinet, and on June 4 the decision was made to go to war. The next morning, Israel launched Operation Focus, a large-scale surprise air strike that was the opening of the Six-Day War.

They had land during 67` but didn`t want any sort of state for the Palestinians, they lost it to Israel, and since then tried to make "Palestine".

 

[Pak_Sher]

Obama is a lot weaker than the Jewish Lobbies in the US, they have threatened him to sqeeze his fund raisings from jewish donors in the US, but it is OK to discuss it on PDF.

 

[ephone]

Well, there is nothing need to be corrected since I have never denied those conflicts between you two.

Arabs attacked Israel since they believe that is their land and U.K. stole that and gave to Jews. They wanted it back.

Israel believed that is god-given land so that it is theirs as well.

About who started the war first in 1967, well both sides can argue for days, or even years. One can say the other side initiated the threat first, while the other side can say you opened fire first.

If winner told the loser of the war to fxxk-off and get them off once for all, there won't be any problems or issues need to be discussed. The problem is that, whether you call them Arabs or Palestinians, they have lived there for hundreds of years or more than one thousand years. They were the land owners then for centuries while you indeed are not. They have nowhere to go. You have to learn to co-exist no matter how hard you have fought each other, or how much hatred you have against each other. Well, someone mentioned that Jews bought a lot of lands from Arabs then. Foreigner investors can buy the whole Manhattan, it does not change the fact that it is still part of U.S.

You have to find a way to minimize the negative and maximize the positive. Otherwise, except more bloodshed, anything better can turn out miraculously?
Indeed Arabs has lost the wars and Israel won them and grabbed more lands.

I don`t believe you are an antisemitic or anti-muslim. You are entitled to your oppinion but allow me to correct you on one part. Israel was attacked by Arab countries multiple times before 67 and again during 67.
In May 1967, Nasser received false reports from the Soviet Union that Israel was massing on the Syrian border[18]. Nasser began massing his troops in the Sinai Peninsula on Israel's border (May 16), expelled the UNEF force from Gaza and Sinai (May 19) and took up UNEF positions at Sharm el-Sheikh, overlooking the Straits of Tiran.[19][20] Israel reiterated declarations made in 1957 that any closure of the Straits would be considered an act of war, or justification for war.[21][22] Nasser declared the Straits closed to Israeli shipping on May 22–23. On May 30, Jordan and Egypt signed a defense pact. The following day, at Jordan's invitation, the Iraqi army began deploying troops and armored units in Jordan.[23] They were later reinforced by an Egyptian contingent. On June 1, Israel formed a National Unity Government by widening its cabinet, and on June 4 the decision was made to go to war. The next morning, Israel launched Operation Focus, a large-scale surprise air strike that was the opening of the Six-Day War.

They had land during 67` but didn`t want any sort of state for the Palestinians, they lost it to Israel, and since then tried to make "Palestine".