Obama Cancels Summit With Putin

[Tanja]

The amount of extremists here is too damn high

 

[flamer84]

This is just political theater of Obama's own doing. Barack Obama is an aberration in American politics. No country is immune.

In the immediate aftermath of his Presidency, there will be no shortage of accolades heaped upon him by starry eyed fawning admirers, from the ordinary people to the media elites who skewed their jobs for him. But once that love fest dies, and usually they do pretty quickly, objective historians will take over and will deliver a scathing review of his failure as a President. It started already.

The Amateur: Edward Klein: 9781621570905: Amazon.com: Books

Klein gave an excellent comparative analysis of Obama to past Presidents, including Kennedy who bumbled early but learned quickly to the good hearted but also bumbling Carter, and Obama rated lower than both. Granted, Klein is one of many and Obama will have his own cadre of professional pundits and historians who will give different opinions of his Presidency. But what both sides cannot deny are the facts, or accounts, of crucial events that inevitably compelled all Presidents to act and/or react. The politically streetwise ones generally were proactive and aggressive. Obama is not that type. He prides himself on being an intellectual, perhaps too much of an intellectual for the Presidency but that someone has to do the job, and that arrogance, as amply recorded by others and explained by Klein, made Obama a passive and reactive President, vulnerable to exploitation by the likes of Putin.

The Obama administration is a basket full of crazy but they're dragging the US down with them.
Their latest "magnificent ideea",now they're gonna tell people where should they live and next to whome:

Obama administration using housing department to compel diversity in neighborhoods | Fox News

 

[Alienware]

I love it when you guys think you are civilized and others are savages, despite the fact that your countries have the darkest histories, have fought the majority of wars in history and are responsible for death and suffering of hundreds of millions of people in past century.
If being civilized means something like that, we people prefer to stay uncivilized.

But the West is the civilized world. Why do you think I (and millions of other Chinese, East Asians etc) move to the USA/Europe to study and work? Why is English the #1 language in the world? Why is American/British music and film thee most popular? Why is China and other emerging countries increasingly adopting Western culture?

Lets not be hypocritical!

In Iran women are abused in the name of Islam, young girls forced to marry old men. That is not civilized is it?

 

[Prechko]

But the West is the civilized world. Why do you think I (and millions of other Chinese, East Asians etc) move to the USA/Europe to study and work? Why is English the #1 language in the world? Why is American/British music and film thee most popular? Why is China and other emerging countries increasingly adopting Western culture?

Lets not be hypocritical!

In Iran women are abused in the name of Islam, young girls forced to marry old men. That is not civilized is it?

It`s true that modern world was created by Western (Colonial) powers for about last five centuries , but that doesn`t mean China or Iran is not "civilized" becuase they are not in the club , longevity of these civilizations/countries surpasses anything in Europe. The last remnant of antic world in Europe died in AD 1453 , China still stands as it was 2000 years ago.

 

[flamer84]

It`s true that modern world was created by Western (Colonial) powers for about last five centuries , but that doesn`t mean China or Iran is not "civilized" becuase they are not in the club , longevity of these civilizations/countries surpasses anything in Europe. The last remnant of antic world in Europe died in AD 1453 , China still stands as it was 2000 years ago.

The western world is build on greco-roman concepts.And yes you're more civilised when you have genuine democracies and your own citizens have far more rights than the individualis in CCP.Russia or Iran,and that's a fact no matter how much pain it causes the trolls that they live at the mercy of their "eternal benevolent leaders" who treat their people as sheep with no rights.We're not perfect but still far way in comparison with those countries.

 

[vostok]

But the West is the civilized world. Why do you think I (and millions of other Chinese, East Asians etc) move to the USA/Europe to study and work? Why is English the #1 language in the world? Why is American/British music and film thee most popular? Why is China and other emerging countries increasingly adopting Western culture?

Lets not be hypocritical!

In Iran women are abused in the name of Islam, young girls forced to marry old men. That is not civilized is it?

in the fifth century barbarians became stronger then Rome and destroyed it. Does this mean that the barbarians - are more civilized than the Romans?
Power - not a sign of civilization. The modern West has lost the moral compass. And its strength and dominance
is based on over-exploatation of Africa, Asia and South America.

 

[Serpentine]

But the West is the civilized world. Why do you think I (and millions of other Chinese, East Asians etc) move to the USA/Europe to study and work? Why is English the #1 language in the world? Why is American/British music and film thee most popular? Why is China and other emerging countries increasingly adopting Western culture?

Lets not be hypocritical!

In Iran women are abused in the name of Islam, young girls forced to marry old men. That is not civilized is it?

I don't care why you migrated to U.S dear, to make more money?

This 'civilized' world has blood of millions on its hands, they may be civilized for a portion of their people, no denying, but for the countries who are not in the 'exclusive civilized club', they are Fascists with inhumane policies.

And your last sentence shows how much false information you manged to absorb while living in 'civilized world'. No woman in Iran is 'forced' to marry to anyone, let alone old men, you have mistaken Iran to some of your other 'ally' states. Don't believe anything you read in 'civilized media' .

And your fellow Chinese countrymen should be proud of your stance, by selling out 5,000 years old Chinese civilization only because you have migrated to a western country.

 

[Prechko]

The western world is build on greco-roman concepts.And yes you're more civilised when you have genuine democracies and your own citizens have far more rights than the individualis in CCP.Russia or Iran,and that's a fact no matter how much pain it causes the trolls that they live at the mercy of their "eternal benevolent leaders" who treat their people as sheep with no rights.We're not perfect but still far way in comparison with those countries.

And the West has today genuine democracy? With exception of few places , no. I always remember my Western educated professor "What is the best invention in history? Democracy , because you think you decide about anything and you don`t" . We all know this to be kinda a true.

Those Greco-Roman concepts came to Western Europe via Arab scholars , like the Averroes. Paris and London were small dirty villages compared to Baghdad 1000 years ago , today is quite different story , so things change over time. There should be no arrogant approach towards others and be under illusion of some God-given supremacy for eternity , that is a mistake.

 

[flamer84]

And the West has today genuine democracy? With exception of few places , no. I always remember my Western educated professor "What is the best invention in history? Democracy , because you think you decide about anything and you don`t" . We all know this to be kinda a true.

Those Greco-Roman concepts came to Western Europe via Arab scholars , like the Averroes. Paris and London were small dirty villages compared to Baghdad 1000 years ago , today is quite different story , so things change over time. There should be no arrogant approach towards others and be under illusion of some God-given supremacy for eternity , that is a mistake.

Mostly they came through the Byzantine Empire,pls research before stating something.
I've said that the western world is not perfect but what do you want...to live under a Putin style dictator who promptly ships any opposition to jail,under a mullah regime who tells how you should behave to please God,or a one party state like China??...No thanks dude,you,voscko and the others go for it but it's not for me,i prefere to stay in this "illusion".

 

[Prechko]

Mostly they came through the Byzantine Empire,pls research before stating something.
I've said that the western world is not perfect but what do you want...to live under a Putin style dictator who promptly ships any opposition to jail,under a mullah regime who tells how you should behave to please God,or a one party state like China??...No thanks dude,you,voscko and the others go for it but it's not for me,i prefere to stay in this "illusion".

I did my research long time ago , if you did the the same thing you would know who Averroes is and his importance for European history. Byzantine scholars were also important but no one is close to Ibn Rushd of Cordoba.

6 million people (out of 35 million , Iran population in 1979) came to put new regime in power , who are we to judge them.

Putin is not a dictator , autocratic yes. You have a lot of opposition in Russia and only few of them are in jail. Would you like vote for a guy that says two months before bankruptcy in 1998 that everything is fine with finances of the country? I think not , so most of Russians think the same, the guy i`m talking about is Boris Nemtsov , so called leader of opposition. Opposition sucks and it`s not Putin fault.

 

[flamer84]

I did my research long time ago , if you did the the same thing you would know who Averroes is and his importance for European history. Byzantine scholars were also important but no one is close to Ibn Rushd of Cordoba.

6 million people (out of 35 million , Iran population in 1979) came to put new regime in power , who are we to judge them.

Putin is not a dictator , autocratic yes. You have a lot of opposition in Russia and only few of them are in jail. Would you like vote for a guy that says two months before bankruptcy in 1998 that everything is fine with finances of the country? I think not , so most of Russians think the same, the guy i`m talking about is Boris Nemtsov , so called leader of opposition. Opposition sucks and it`s not Putin fault.

So basically you're telling me that Averroe is the reason of the Renaissance? One guy,altough an exceptional one? You must be bonkers,and from what i know he was a secular.I was not judging anyone but i like our system better and for all your worthless blaberring you can't proove that those countries have anything that i should admire when it comes to how they are ruled in fact quite the opposite,which makes the West "more civilised".It's the truth,deal with it.

 

[SirHatesALot]

Thanks for proving my point, Indian.

Superior Chinese have spoken.

 

[Prechko]

So basically you're telling me that Averroe is the reason of the Renaissance? One guy,altough an exceptional one? You must be bonkers,and from what i know he was a secular.I was not judging anyone but i like our system better and for all your worthless blaberring you can't proove that those countries have anything that i should admire when it comes to how they are ruled.

Averroes made a translation and explanation of Aristotle works and ideas , he was known in the West as "The Translator". You should really try to read about the guy and then draw some conclusions.

Be realistic , do you really think that average guy in Moscow or Tehran have reasons to admire your country Romania and also my country. Like you dont`t see anything positive in them they think the same about us.

 

[flamer84]

Averroes made a translation and explanation of Aristotle works and ideas , he was known in the West as "The Translator". You should really try to read about the guy and then draw some conclusions.

Be realistic , do you really think that average guy in Moscow or Tehran have reasons to admire your country Romania and also my country. Like you dont`t see anything positive in them they think the same about us.

You might try to understand that i don't have anything against the average guy in Teheran or Moscow but i don't think that their political system is a civilised one and yes the average guy in Teheran or in Moscow should wish to have a political system like Romania or Croatia for is much better than theirs with all its flaws,and i know that there are flaws.
Also,i'm not disputing that Cairo,Baghdad,Cordoba were centers of knowledge in the middle ages while Europe was struggling under the Dark Ages but the Renaissance is a conclusion of many factors including ideeas from the back then more illuminated middle east+ invention of printing,age of navigation,looting of Constantinople in the 13th century,fall of Constantinople in 1453,reduction of Church power etc.

 

[Desert Fox]

A lot of people died but 60 million is simply an exaggeration , you often hear about GULAG , but death rate did not exceeded 1,6 million people by all accounts.

These are my sources:

Dyadkin, I.G. (Demograficheskaya statistika neyestestvennoy smertnosti v SSSR 1918-1956 ): 56 to 62 million "unnatural deaths" for the USSR overall, with 34 to 49 million under Stalin.

Davies, Norman (Europe A History, 1998): c. 50 million killed 1924-53, excluding WW2 war losses. This would divide (more or less) into 33M pre-war and 17M after 1939.

Twentieth Century Atlas - Death Tolls

The sources that put it lower than 60-50 million didn't/don't have access to declassified Soviet records. The 60,000,000 is a slight exaggeration but due to the number of mass graves discovered and those that are yet to be discovered as well as previous records the number has been either 50 or 60 million total deaths in the Soviet Union.

Also i don`t know where did you learn about "5 million Soviet POW" killed as traitors , this is simply rubbish. Soviet POW were killed en masse by Nazis and it is well documented. And also with the exception of Stalingrad POW most of German POW returned alive to their homes unlike other way around....

Those Red Army POW's died as a result of Stalin's policy of branding anyone who surrendered to the Germans as a "traitor". That was Stalin's grim Order No. 270 of August 16, 1941.

Hitler proposed to the Soviets a fair deal; if the Soviets treat captured Axis troops in accordance with Geneva convention (of which the Soviet Union was not a signatory to) he would would give the same rights to Red Army POW's in German camps. Stalin declined this proposal stating that "the Soviet Union has now POW's, only traitors".

Here is what Russian historian Nickolai Tolstoy states in his book The Secret Betrayal:

"Hitler himself urged Red Cross inspection of [German] camps [holding Soviet prisoners of war]. But an appeal to Stalin for prisoners' postal services received a reply that clinched the matter: 'There are no Soviet prisoners of war. The Soviet soldier fights on till death. If he chooses to become a prisoner, he is automatically excluded from the Russian community. We are not interested in a postal service only for Germans'."

Stalin's War Against His Own Troops

What British Historian Robert Conquest explains in his book Stalin: Breaker of Nations:

"When the Germans approached the Soviets, through Sweden, to negotiate observance of the provisions of the Geneva Convention on prisoners of war, Stalin refused. The Soviet soldiers in German hands were thus unprotected even in theory. Millions of them died in captivity, through malnutrition or maltreatment. If Stalin had adhered to the convention (to which the USSR had not been a party) would the Germans have behaved better? To judge by their treatment of other 'Slav submen' POWs (like the Poles, even surrendering after the [1944] Warsaw Rising), the answer seems to be yes. (Stalin's own behavior to [Polish] prisoners captured by the Red Army had already been demonstrated at Katyn and elsewhere [where they were shot]."

Read more here:

Stalin's War Against His Own Troops

While communism indeed sucks and turn out to be major failure , things should not be blown out of proportion.

I'm merely stating numbers from authoritative sources. These people actually spent the time and effort to uncover these facts.