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Numbers of New Tanks in army

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The Pakistan army has planned for 2000 Talha APCs by 2010 and 300 Al khalid and 350 Al Zarar tanks for 2007.
This is according to figures from another pakistan defence based website.

Does anyone know if the APC and tank production is on track?
 
Regarding Al Khalid Tanks, how many countries have bought them or are interested in them.
 
The website is ******************** which I used to view quite regularly as they had news updates but they've fallen behind on that.

The numbers are from the army sections inventory and the talha page.
 
since we r talking tanks some interesting info on MBT-2000/AL-Khalid...


Type 90 / MBT-2000 Main Battle Tank
MBT-2000 main battle tank (Source: Chinese Internet) Variants

Type 90-II
MBT-2000
Al-Khalid

Third-Generation MBT Programme
ZTZ98 (Type 98)
ZTZ99 (Type 99)

Last updated: 11 February 2008

The Type 90-II is a third-generation main battle tank (MBT) designed and developed by the China North Vehicle Research Institute (also known as 201 Institute) in Beijing and the Inner-Mongolia First Machinery Group Corporation (also known as (617 Factory) in Baotou, Inner Mongolia for the export market. A further improved model known as MBT-2000 was marketed by NORINCO to the foreign customers in the late 1990s. The tank is built by Pakistan under license as the Al-Khalid.

The Type 90-II first revealed in 1992 featured a welded turret, a 125mm smoothbore gun with a Russian 2A46’s autoloader, and a 1,200hp diesel engine. The tank was also much heavier than previous Chinese-made MBTs, suggesting a transformation of design principles in the Chinese tanks. The tank received extensive field testing but did not enter production due to lack of interest from either domestic or foreign customers.


The Type 90-II main battle tank introduced in 1992 (Source: Chinese Internet)

201 Institute and 617 Factory continued to improve the Type 90-II by incorporating the tank with a foreign-made engine with better performance and reliability. Initially the French 1,500hp diesel V series engine was considered, but the project (known as Type 90-IIA) was later cancelled due to France joining the arms embargo imposed on Pakistan for its nuclear testing in 1998. A second design powered by a Ukrainian-made 6TD 1,200hp engine later led to the introduction of the Type 90-IIM in 2000. During the 2001 Abu Dhabi Defence Exhibition, the tank was first revealed by NORINCO under its export name MBT2000. The tank has been produced in Pakistan as the Al-Khalid MBT since November 2001.


The Type 90-IIM main battle tank powered by an Ukrainian engine (Source: Chinese Internet)

The Type 90-II is not a totally new design with around 45% of its components coming from current designs. This can be broken down as follows: 10% from the Type 59, 15% from the Type 69, and 20% from the Type 85/88C; the remaining 55% being new components.

The layout of the Type 90-II is conventional, driver's compartment at the front, fighting compartment/turret in the centre, and power pack in the rear. The complete powerpack assembly can be removed in around 30 minutes and in field conditions. Suspension is of the conventional torsion bar type and there are six rubber-tyred roadwheels on each side, the drive sprocket at the rear.

The turret and hull are of all-welded steel armour construction. A layer of composite armour has been added to the front arc and maximum thickness is estimated to be around 600mm on the turret front, and around 450mm on the glacis plate. The armour package is of modular design, enabling damaged sections to be replaced or upgrades installed throughout service life. Explosive reactive armour (ERA) can be fitted if required.

Improved Variant

In 2007, a Chinese magazine revealed a new “enhanced third-generation MBT”, which was believed to be a further improved variant of the MBT-2000. The tank features front arrow-shaped add-on armour modules on the turret, a roof-mounted 14.5mm antiaircraft machine gun similar to the QJG02, and a slightly shorter hull possibly due to the engine being placed latitudinally instead of longitudinally. No further information has been released.

Weapons

Main armament consists of a fully-stabilised 125mm auto-fed smoothbore gun capable of firing various types of ammunition including high explosive, high explosive fragmentation and APFSDS. 39 rounds are carried. The gun may also be capable of firing the Russian 9M119 Refleks (NATO codename: AT-11 Sniper) anti-tank guided missile or its Chinese copy.

Both commander and gunner have roof-mounted stabilised sights fitted with either day/image intensification or day/thermal channels, a laser rangefinder and an auto tracker facility. A computerised fire control system is also fitted as standard.

Second armament includes a 7.62mm co-axial machine gun and a 12.7mm air defence machine gun mounted on the commander's cupola.

Protection

The hull and turret are protected by composite armour plating. The Type 90-II was the first Chinese tank developed from the start with a 'systems approach', that is, it was intended to have components replaced and upgraded. The new turret design contains composite armour in the frontal arc that is designed to be exchangeable when better armour becomes available. Two sets of six-barrel smoke/HE grenade launchers are mounted on the turret sides.

Propulsion

At least four diesel powerpack options have been tested on the Type 90-II/Al Khalid MBT, including two supplied by the Perkins Engine Company and each comprising of a CV-12 Condor diesel of 1,200hp (as fitted in the Challenger 1 and 2), coupled to a French SESM ESM 500 automatic transmission (as installed in the Leclerc).

The Pakistan-manufactured Al Khalid MBT is reported to be fitted with a Ukraine built 6TD diesel (as fitted in the T-80UD). Claimed to be the most compact MBT diesel engines in the world, the 6TD series are two-stroke, liquid cooled and supercharged with horizontal cylinders and opposed pistons. At its current battle weight of 46t, the engine gives the Al Khalid MBT a 26hp/t power-to-weight ratio and a max speed of 72km/h.

Specifications

Crew: 3
Weight: 48t
Engine: Ukraine built 6TD 1,200hp liquid cooled diesel
Transmission: Mechanical, planetary
Track: Metallic with RMSh, with rubber-tyred road wheels
Suspension: Torsion bar
Radio: Receive/transmit, telephone
Dimension: Length: 10.07m; Height: 2.40m; Width: 3.50m
Ground Pressure: 26hp/t
Cruising Range: 450km
Speed: Max road 65km/h; max off-road 45km/h
Fording Depths: 5m with snorkel
Main Gun: Indigenous 125mm smoothbore, 39 rounds
Rate of Fire: 8 rounds/min (autoloader), 1~2 r/min (manual load)
Auxiliary Weapon: One coaxial 7.62mm machine gun; one 12.7mm air-defence machine gun
Fire Control: Laser rangefinder input, onboard computer, wind sensor, and control panel
 
AL-Khalid 2, any credible info on this gem.,.....we all await!
 
The Pakistan army has planned for 2000 Talha APCs by 2010 and 300 Al khalid and 350 Al Zarar tanks for 2007.
This is according to figures from another pakistan defence based website.

Does anyone know if the APC and tank production is on track?

Why is pakistan still building Al-Zarrar and not replacing them with Al-Khalid?
Why not consider selling old tanks to poor nations and inducting new Al-Khalids instead?
 
For now the numbers are around 300 Al Khalid, 300 T-84, 300 Al Zarrar, 300 T-85IIAP & the rest are T-59. Apparently focus is now on the Al Khalid-1 - a 4th generation tank that will enter production in 2011 for 300-350 tanks. It is possible that more Al Khalid-1 MBTs will be procured by 2019 rather than focus on AK and T-84 right now.
 
Last i heard that Al-Khalid-1 is only an upgrade (better engine, modifications) and they had started the production of that standard a few years ago.
 
I am still baffled by the amount of money spent by both Pakistan and India on tanks.

Granted I'm not very well versed with tank warfare (haven't got to those books on my reading list yet)... but it seems to me that the era of MBT led ground warfare which was initiated during WWII, perfected during the cold war stratagem, and a major component of the Indo/Pak wars of 65 and 71 has pretty much ended.

With the recent experiences of the US armed forces in Afghanistan and Iraq, it is clear that lighter, faster and more agile mechanized units using IFVs like the M2 Bradleys with only occasional tank support while being more reliant upon guided air support is probably the way to go.

In fact, conventional wars are far more determined by air space domination in this day and age. Even if one side decides to swarm in with tanks, they have to make sure that the airspace is completely in their control, if not, those tanks will be turned into scrap metal by the opposing air force (especially if they have an arsenal of dedicated CAS aircrafts).

Now I'm not saying that tanks are completely obsolete or that they should be jettisoned from the inventories of armies altogether; but there certainly doesn't seem to be the need for thousands of tanks if their operational capacity has been reduced to such a great extent by modern aviation warfare.
 
Last i heard that Al-Khalid-1 is only an upgrade (better engine, modifications) and they had started the production of that standard a few years ago.
According to Sabre on PakDef who went to the HIT complex, the AK-1 will enter production in 2011 and is supposed to be superior than the Chinese ZTZ-99. Now if HIT is setting the bars that high, then the AK-1 will have to be a 4th generation tank...and would have be a pretty radical upgrade.
 
I am still baffled by the amount of money spent by both Pakistan and India on tanks.

Granted I'm not very well versed with tank warfare (haven't got to those books on my reading list yet)... but it seems to me that the era of MBT led ground warfare which was initiated during WWII, perfected during the cold war stratagem, and a major component of the Indo/Pak wars of 65 and 71 has pretty much ended.

With the recent experiences of the US armed forces in Afghanistan and Iraq, it is clear that lighter, faster and more agile mechanized units using IFVs like the M2 Bradleys with only occasional tank support while being more reliant upon guided air support is probably the way to go.

In fact, conventional wars are far more determined by air space domination in this day and age. Even if one side decides to swarm in with tanks, they have to make sure that the airspace is completely in their control, if not, those tanks will be turned into scrap metal by the opposing air force (especially if they have an arsenal of dedicated CAS aircrafts).

Now I'm not saying that tanks are completely obsolete or that they should be jettisoned from the inventories of armies altogether; but there certainly doesn't seem to be the need for thousands of tanks if their operational capacity has been reduced to such a great extent by modern aviation warfare.

dont forget the ATGW systems available to smash these hulks. PA has equipped itself sufficiently (esp along the lower LoC) to thwart any pincer movement which the IA may initiate.
tank formations are still useful for a quick armoured thrust followed by infantry to capture enemy land.
tanks i believe were still used in the gulf wars to push back infantry.
 
One also has to account for the fact that given similar air capabilities for two opposing sides, the deciding battles may end up being reduced to land based combat.

There was an interesting account I read a while back that talked about where future air warfare was heading if two opposing sides had comparable ECM's, AWACS, BVRAMM's etc. The argument made was that in a situation like that, with each side able to counter the others EW capabilities, Air Combat may end up getting reduced to "dog fights" and short range missiles. I'll see if I can find it again.
 
There was an interesting account I read a while back that talked about where future air warfare was heading if two opposing sides had comparable ECM's, AWACS, BVRAMM's etc. The argument made was that in a situation like that, with each side able to counter the others EW capabilities, Air Combat may end up getting reduced to "dog fights" and short range missiles. I'll see if I can find it again.
if that is so, then that would be perfect for PAF. PAF has the best dogfighting capabilities in the world. however, our EW capabilities aren't where they should be right now. i hope PAF manages to procure AESA radar on all its fighters on order.
 

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