Nuclear war between US, Russia would leave 5 billion dead from hunger, study says

[MH.Yang]

Hiroshima and Nagasaki are not a complete destruction. Nor were Japan completely destroyed, nor the world was completely destroyed. It is NOT the same case if we are talking about Global Thermonuclear War, if Russia or China have a nuclear exchange, the ENTIRE world is going to be razed. Not just 2 cities. You can still produce stuff in parts that were affected back in Nagasaki and Hiroshima, like in Tokyo but who can produce stuff when the entire world is destroyed? All the farm field were burned and irradiated, and all the livestock on the surface of the earth killed?

Just because Japan can build back Nagasaki and Hiroshima after they dropped 2 50kt bombs on it does not mean the world can build back after US and Russia both unloaded 1000 Megaton of nuclear material on it........


This is a hypothetical situation on what happened after a nuclear war between US and Russia. I personally don't think Ukrainian war will develop into a nuclear war. I have said it many times.



Dude, did you study biology at all? Humans need a balance diet of multiple nutrients in order to sustain Sustagen. That include, Carbohydrate, Protein, Mineral (such as Zinc and Vitamin), Fats, Fibre and etc, does cyanobacteria have Carbohydrate? Does cyanobacteria have Protein? (probably it does) Does cyanobacteria have Fat? Does cyanobacteria have Fibre?

If not, then you will suffer from something called Malnutrition, and that is fatal unless you regain the balance of that diet.

Don't ask dumb question please, we can eat grass, does that mean we can sustain life just by eating grass?

I mentioned Hiroshima and Nagasaki just to prove that the radiation residues of nuclear weapons are not as terrible as nuclear power station accidents. At least the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki have not left their homes, nor have there been major radiation accidents. After the nuclear war, the time for the earth to repair itself was not as long as we thought.

Many large Chinese enterprises have underground warehouses and underground factories. After the nuclear war, China should be able to retain most of its industrial nodes. This should be able to restore the scientific, technological and industrial level of mankind in a relatively short time.

Cyanobacteria can be used in aquaculture, and we can raise animals to provide other nutrients.

China has more than 50% of global grain reserves. According to the normal grain consumption rate of 1.4 billion people in China, it can be used for two years. According to the food consumption rate of 1.4 billion people in India (the annual food consumption in India is less than 30% of that in China), it can be used for 7 years. If we have only 500 million survivors after the nuclear war, we can use it for 20 years.

China hoards over half the world's grain, pushing up global prices

Testy ties with U.S. and Australia could be prodding China to boost food reserves

asia.nikkei.com

 

[jhungary]

I mentioned Hiroshima and Nagasaki just to prove that the radiation residues of nuclear weapons are not as terrible as nuclear power station accidents. At least the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki have not left their homes, nor have there been major radiation accidents. After the nuclear war, the time for the earth to repair itself was not as long as we thought.

First of all, there will still be a conventional war after the nuclear exchange, just because you go nuclear, that does not mean the war stop immediately over. Many military analyses believe the war will continue as both the government and the original reason for war continue to exist until either the civilian population overthrow any of the government or its descent into anarchism

Second, as I said before Hiroshima and Nagasaki are not comparable into a global nuclear warfare, you are comparing a 50kilo ton bomb dropped in 1945 to a post 2000 multi-megaton drop. Also, if US and Russia start a nuclear war, that will not be an airdrop airburst only like the US did with the sole purpose of letting Japan know the power instead of trying to go for total annihilation. If US and Russia started nuclear exchange, it will be a mixture of Ground Brust, Air Burst and EMP attack and also Atmospheric attack, the destruction WILL BE COMPLEHENSIVE, this would cover a large range of issue that did not present itself in both Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Many large Chinese enterprises have underground warehouses and underground factories. After the nuclear war, China should be able to retain most of its industrial nodes. This should be able to restore the scientific, technological and industrial level of mankind in a relatively short time.

It just wouldn't, and you are very naive to think so.

Because unless you can put the entire material base underground, most important of all, you don't have energy source underground, power station are going to be destroyed, and all the circuitries will also be destroyed by EMP. are you suggesting you use manpower (like one of those bike chain power) to power the machinery? How about communication network? How about infrastructure, where are all the source material come from? And where is all the product going?

You will need to have a backup city underneath an actual city to do that, Underground bunker can be big, but they cannot be that big. And even if you can be that big, there are limited space for material storage as well, you can't have an unlimited size underground bunker, that's just not going to happen. Eventually, it will run out of material.

And moreover, that is if you have a functioning government left to begin with, most likely once a nuclear war happened. Government will collapse because of lack of communication, and that mean people are going to try to do some Game of Throne shit if not directly descent into anarchy.

Cyanobacteria can be used in aquaculture, and we can raise animals to provide other nutrients.

Growth on what land? With irradiated water source and contaminated soil, the moment you plant anything on a irradiated land, that thing is going to die, that is if you did not die from exposure in the first place, anything that eat or drink the contaminated overgrowth or water WILL dies. And that's including you.

And then it will take time to growth stuff, at the meantime what are you surviving on?

China has more than 50% of global grain reserves. According to the normal grain consumption rate of 1.4 billion people in China, it can be used for two years. According to the food consumption rate of 1.4 billion people in India (the annual food consumption in India is less than 30% of that in China), it can be used for 7 years. If we have only 500 million survivors after the nuclear war, we can use it for 20 years.

China hoards over half the world's grain, pushing up global prices

Testy ties with U.S. and Australia could be prodding China to boost food reserves

asia.nikkei.com

You do know the half of Plutonium is 80 years, right? And the Half Life of Uranium is 11,200 years. 20 years is nothing and the entire world will still be inhospitable because the radiation did not even half and when we talk about a combine Ground and Air Burst, you are talking about radiation level 100-500 times greater than when Chernobyl exploded. You can ask the Russian who just camp there in March how sick they were when they come back, and that happened almost 40 years ago.

Also, you can't store all grain reserve underground, if you do, your shelter will not have space for people, sure you will have 50 years of grain reserve but no one to eat it because they all died as they can't get into those shelter.

Dude, you really do know nothing about nuclear and nuclear war, I mean, you are literally beyond naive on the topic, did China have any sort of CERN training offer to their citizens? And if you don't (And I will say you don't because you are quite obvious know jack shit about nuclear war) then your country is not properly prepared for it. Which put doubt in your "Level" of preparation. All you are saying (or thinking) is absurd.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Well, I guess at least it solves the global overpopulation problem.

 

[MH.Yang]

First of all, there will still be a conventional war after the nuclear exchange, just because you go nuclear, that does not mean the war stop immediately over. Many military analyses believe the war will continue as both the government and the original reason for war continue to exist until either the civilian population overthrow any of the government or its descent into anarchism

Second, as I said before Hiroshima and Nagasaki are not comparable into a global nuclear warfare, you are comparing a 50kilo ton bomb dropped in 1945 to a post 2000 multi-megaton drop. Also, if US and Russia start a nuclear war, that will not be an airdrop airburst only like the US did with the sole purpose of letting Japan know the power instead of trying to go for total annihilation. If US and Russia started nuclear exchange, it will be a mixture of Ground Brust, Air Burst and EMP attack and also Atmospheric attack, the destruction WILL BE COMPLEHENSIVE, this would cover a large range of issue that did not present itself in both Hiroshima and Nagasaki.



It just wouldn't, and you are very naive to think so.

Because unless you can put the entire material base underground, most important of all, you don't have energy source underground, power station are going to be destroyed, and all the circuitries will also be destroyed by EMP. are you suggesting you use manpower (like one of those bike chain power) to power the machinery? How about communication network? How about infrastructure, where are all the source material come from? And where is all the product going?

You will need to have a backup city underneath an actual city to do that, Underground bunker can be big, but they cannot be that big. And even if you can be that big, there are limited space for material storage as well, you can't have an unlimited size underground bunker, that's just not going to happen. Eventually, it will run out of material.

And moreover, that is if you have a functioning government left to begin with, most likely once a nuclear war happened. Government will collapse because of lack of communication, and that mean people are going to try to do some Game of Throne shit if not directly descent into anarchy.


Growth on what land? With irradiated water source and contaminated soil, the moment you plant anything on a irradiated land, that thing is going to die, that is if you did not die from exposure in the first place, anything that eat or drink the contaminated overgrowth or water WILL dies. And that's including you.

And then it will take time to growth stuff, at the meantime what are you surviving on?


You do know the half of Plutonium is 80 years, right? And the Half Life of Uranium is 11,200 years. 20 years is nothing and the entire world will still be inhospitable because the radiation did not even half and when we talk about a combine Ground and Air Burst, you are talking about radiation level 100-500 times greater than when Chernobyl exploded. You can ask the Russian who just camp there in March how sick they were when they come back, and that happened almost 40 years ago.

Also, you can't store all grain reserve underground, if you do, your shelter will not have space for people, sure you will have 50 years of grain reserve but no one to eat it because they all died as they can't get into those shelter.

Dude, you really do know nothing about nuclear and nuclear war, I mean, you are literally beyond naive on the topic, did China have any sort of CERN training offer to their citizens? And if you don't (And I will say you don't because you are quite obvious know jack shit about nuclear war) then your country is not properly prepared for it. Which put doubt in your "Level" of preparation. All you are saying (or thinking) is absurd.

First of all, the half-life of most radioactive materials is 50 years, which is only common knowledge in middle schools.

The radiation pollution caused by nuclear explosions will reach a relatively safe level in a few years or decades, rather than decades. The pollution of nuclear explosion is not equal to the half-life of nuclear material.

Radioactive Fallout From Nuclear Weapons Testing | US EPA

After a nuclear explosion, debris and soil can mix with radionuclides. This mixture is sent up into the air and then falls back to Earth. It is called fallout and it typically contains hundreds of different radionuclides.

www.epa.gov

I think you have greatly underestimated the scale of China's asylum project. This is a national 100 year project that began in 1969 and can accommodate 200 million people. This is the video of SCMP reporter visiting the Asylum Project in Jinan, Shandong Province. Jinan is only a third tier city, and the video only visits the civil facilities at the top level of the refuge project, not the closed lower level and factory traffic. But this part alone can accommodate 200000 people. China only needs to link the asylum projects in various cities through Railways (maybe there are already railways. I have only visited the factory area, but not other closed areas, so I can not determine whether there are Railways). This is enough to ensure the integrity of the government's rights after the nuclear war.

 

[jhungary]

First of all, the half-life of most radioactive materials is 50 years, which is only common knowledge in middle schools.

I want to know which high school you went to.......

Plutonium 239 half-life is 24,200 years, while Plutonium 238 is 87 years, Uranium 235 have a half life of 24,110 years and Uranium 239 have a half-life of 4.47 billions years

that's according to CDC, which itself according to American institution of Chemist.

CDC Radiation Emergencies | Radioisotope Brief: Plutonium-239 (Pu-239)

Information on terrorism and public health. Provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

www.cdc.gov

CDC Radiation Emergencies | Radioisotope Brief: Uranium-235 (U-235) and Uranium-238 (U-238

Information on terrorism and public health. Provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

www.cdc.gov

I don't know about your high school, but my high school teach me that value, and not 50 years

The radiation pollution caused by nuclear explosions will reach a relatively safe level in a few years or decades, rather than decades. The pollution of nuclear explosion is not equal to the half-life of nuclear material.

Radioactive Fallout From Nuclear Weapons Testing | US EPA

After a nuclear explosion, debris and soil can mix with radionuclides. This mixture is sent up into the air and then falls back to Earth. It is called fallout and it typically contains hundreds of different radionuclides.

www.epa.gov

you do know the EPA article did not say what you said at all, and it was for weapon testing back in 1950s in New Mexico, we are talking about a global nuclear war......

I think you have greatly underestimated the scale of China's asylum project. This is a national 100 year project that began in 1969 and can accommodate 200 million people. This is the video of SCMP reporter visiting the Asylum Project in Jinan, Shandong Province. Jinan is only a third tier city, and the video only visits the civil facilities at the top level of the refuge project, not the closed lower level and factory traffic. But this part alone can accommodate 200000 people. China only needs to link the asylum projects in various cities through Railways (maybe there are already railways. I have only visited the factory area, but not other closed areas, so I can not determine whether there are Railways). This is enough to ensure the integrity of the government's rights after the nuclear war.

lol, and you are seriously underestimated the scale of nuclear destruction.

First of all, human cannot live in a bunker for a continue period. You will not only need food and water (both of which comes with limited stocks and you cannot regenerate them in bunker) you also need air, sunlight and also movement. All of which are also limited in underground bunker.

Secondly, you are talking about surviving the bomb, when I always say is how do you survive afterward. It's easy to survive the bomb, but with all ground communication cut, most likely police and military either dead or abandoning their post. How do you keep law and order applies in your local bunker? Are there going to be armed guard, if so, what make them stay in line? If not, how do you control people?

Thirdly, bunker, regardless how big it is, have limited space, which mean resource is going to run out, I am not interested in talking about your time in bunker eating spam and drinking bottled water for a living, what I said is afterward when your can of spam eventually runs out and your water supplies depleted. How are you going to sustain life afterward? Feeding 200,000 people for a year is not a small task, again, you cannot farm or raise animal in bunker, which mean you need to be able to find food source, water source probably immediately after the bomb, how would you do that? Otherwise, you are going to be left to fend off on your own.

As I said, you have a completely naive picture on how you can survive a nuclear war, again, at a sense, I don't ever think CERN were taught to Chinese, you have a very dissolution way of thinking everything is going to work after, but is it? And will it?

 

[MH.Yang]

I want to know which high school you went to.......

Plutonium 239 half-life is 24,200 years, while Plutonium 238 is 87 years, Uranium 235 have a half life of 24,110 years and Uranium 239 have a half-life of 4.47 billions years

that's according to CDC, which itself according to American institution of Chemist.

CDC Radiation Emergencies | Radioisotope Brief: Plutonium-239 (Pu-239)

Information on terrorism and public health. Provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

www.cdc.gov

CDC Radiation Emergencies | Radioisotope Brief: Uranium-235 (U-235) and Uranium-238 (U-238

Information on terrorism and public health. Provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

www.cdc.gov

I don't know about your high school, but my high school teach me that value, and not 50 years



you do know the EPA article did not say what you said at all, and it was for weapon testing back in 1950s in New Mexico, we are talking about a global nuclear war......



lol, and you are seriously underestimated the scale of nuclear destruction.

First of all, human cannot live in a bunker for a continue period. You will not only need food and water (both of which comes with limited stocks and you cannot regenerate them in bunker) you also need air, sunlight and also movement. All of which are also limited in underground bunker.

Secondly, you are talking about surviving the bomb, when I always say is how do you survive afterward. It's easy to survive the bomb, but with all ground communication cut, most likely police and military either dead or abandoning their post. How do you keep law and order applies in your local bunker? Are there going to be armed guard, if so, what make them stay in line? If not, how do you control people?

Thirdly, bunker, regardless how big it is, have limited space, which mean resource is going to run out, I am not interested in talking about your time in bunker eating spam and drinking bottled water for a living, what I said is afterward when your can of spam eventually runs out and your water supplies depleted. How are you going to sustain life afterward? Feeding 200,000 people for a year is not a small task, again, you cannot farm or raise animal in bunker, which mean you need to be able to find food source, water source probably immediately after the bomb, how would you do that? Otherwise, you are going to be left to fend off on your own.

As I said, you have a completely naive picture on how you can survive a nuclear war, again, at a sense, I don't ever think CERN were taught to Chinese, you have a very dissolution way of thinking everything is going to work after, but is it? And will it?

What I'm talking about is that the half-life of most radioactive materials is about 50 years. You should be able to understand what "most" means.

Of course, specific analysis shows that the half-life of some radioactive materials is only 10 seconds, and some are as long as billions of years.

Mankind has 14000 nuclear weapons now, which cannot cover all parts of the earth. It can't even cover all cities. Therefore, we do not need to transfer all production underground. Russians, in particular, do not even need underground facilities.

The pollution time of nuclear explosion is not equal to the half-life of nuclear material. It has just been 40 years since the end of human ground nuclear explosion experiments, and no nuclear material remains can be detected at these sites now.

Radioactive Fallout From Nuclear Weapons Testing | US EPA

After a nuclear explosion, debris and soil can mix with radionuclides. This mixture is sent up into the air and then falls back to Earth. It is called fallout and it typically contains hundreds of different radionuclides.

www.epa.gov

 

[jhungary]

What I'm talking about is that the half-life of most radioactive materials is about 50 years. You should be able to understand what "most" means.

Of course, specific analysis shows that the half-life of some radioactive materials is only 10 seconds, and some are as long as billions of years.

Mankind has 14000 nuclear weapons now, which cannot cover all parts of the earth. It can't even cover all cities. Therefore, we do not need to transfer all production underground. Russians, in particular, do not even need underground facilities.

The pollution time of nuclear explosion is not equal to the half-life of nuclear material. It has just been 40 years since the end of human ground nuclear explosion experiments, and no nuclear material remains can be detected at these sites now.

Radioactive Fallout From Nuclear Weapons Testing | US EPA

After a nuclear explosion, debris and soil can mix with radionuclides. This mixture is sent up into the air and then falls back to Earth. It is called fallout and it typically contains hundreds of different radionuclides.

www.epa.gov

View attachment 873380

Dude, if and when a nuclear bomb or missile detonated, the first thing it detonate is the fuel rod, either U235 or Pu238. The explosion did not make those fuel goes away (like vaporized consider the boiling point for Uranium is 4000+C and Plutonium at 3200+ C) which mean those fissile material will be carry on by the wind and explosion and scatter around an area, the more fuel rod exploded the more the concentration of those residual on earth, and when you are talking about 1000+ mega ton event, there are more than enough those U235 and Pu238 to pollute the entire earth, making it toxic.

What you are talking about is atmospheric radiation (Or fallout, which is in your own reference), basically is what we called Alpha, Beta, and Gamma radiation, that is giving out after the nuclear chain reaction when the neutron shot thru the Uranium and Plutonium creating Caesium, Iodine and some other isotope I can't remember on top of my head, which is the reaction that make all these energy from nuclear fission. That is a different thing. That only happen with the initial explosion and only hang out on the atmosphere for a limited time afterward they are going to be dissipated.

What we are talking about is not surviving when the bomb detonated, I am talking about the aftermath, when the nuclear fuel from the resulting explosion dissipated in the earth and that thing is the thing that hang on around decades, that is the reason why the earth around Chernobyl exclusion zone is still toxic and is unhabitable, but people can go visit even the reactor because the atmospheric radiation has been dissipated long ago, but that does not mean you can farm in Chernobyl or safely consume the water from the tableland, because the fuel contamination on the surrounding area are high when they shoot the entire reactor 4 core into the air.,

Again, from the sound of it, you know jack shit about nuclear fission or explosion, I will be safe to venture that you have never had any CBRN training or and CERN briefing. If you don't then you should not be talking about how well China prepared for nuclear war because you obviously do not know what's going on.......At least go watch HBO's Chernobyl before you comment.....

 

[Viet]

What I'm talking about is that the half-life of most radioactive materials is about 50 years. You should be able to understand what "most" means.

Of course, specific analysis shows that the half-life of some radioactive materials is only 10 seconds, and some are as long as billions of years.

Mankind has 14000 nuclear weapons now, which cannot cover all parts of the earth. It can't even cover all cities. Therefore, we do not need to transfer all production underground. Russians, in particular, do not even need underground facilities.

The pollution time of nuclear explosion is not equal to the half-life of nuclear material. It has just been 40 years since the end of human ground nuclear explosion experiments, and no nuclear material remains can be detected at these sites now.

Radioactive Fallout From Nuclear Weapons Testing | US EPA

After a nuclear explosion, debris and soil can mix with radionuclides. This mixture is sent up into the air and then falls back to Earth. It is called fallout and it typically contains hundreds of different radionuclides.

www.epa.gov

View attachment 873380

Dinosaurs died off along with all species by a single meteor hit. To kill off humans you don’t need to nuke every city, just few places. What you need is to cross a certain threshold.
Millions chinese might survive on supplies in bunkers. However it’s just a matter of time until foods, waters, fresh air run out.

 

[casual]

First of all, they did. TOS-1 has been used almost EVERYWHERE in this battlefield, I don't know where you have been in the last 6 months, it has been so widely used, Ukraine even able to capture 3 or 5 system and use it on the Russian themselves.

Second, TOS-1 can't deal much damage than Thermonuclear Warhead. It's damage radius is not far enough to create any sort of a problem, otherwise Russian would already be in Kyiv by now if Thermobaric Warhead is that useful. Because every defence position would have been destroyed by it.

And finally, I don't know how small you think Ukraine is. It's literally impossible to "Annihilate" Ukraine with Thermobaric Weapon alone, if you have maybe 500000 of those system, probably. Ukraine is the size of Texas, it IS the third biggest country in Europe behind Russia and France.

Russia has done everything they can conventionally, any expansion would have to come from either general mobilisation or further thin out Russian border security, Russian-Chinese border is virtually empty of Russian Troop, any draw into the war would most likely have to come in from Russian Southern Border. If you had followed this war, you would know Russia held back nothing, maybe beside the use of their Air Force.

Russian bombers have so far refrained from laying waste to Ukrainian cities.

 

[jhungary]

Russian bombers have so far refrained from laying waste to Ukrainian cities.

Well, then what is the excuse of the Russian Fighter?

Russian bomber can't fly not because they have mercy, it's because they don't have Air Superiority and the bomber will simply be shot down if they fly. It would be made mincemeat for even S-300.

 

[James David]

Well, I guess at least it solves the global overpopulation problem.

Well we know who's the most populous country at the moment don't we?

 

[BHAN85]

We know what would vote this guy in the poll of this thread

World faces most dangerous decade since WW2 - Putin

Russia's president says the West is unable to stay in charge, but is "desperately trying" to cling on.

www.bbc.com