NSG meet on India's membership inconclusive, to be taken up in next plenary in Seoul

[dray]

There is no such thing as principle in international diplomacy. It is always about benefits. Maybe a seat for China in MTCR in exchange of India's NSG membership can be worked out?

Yes, that's a possibility, but it is the same 'carrot & stick' approach, only difference is that you are talking about carrot and I am talking about stick. So far we have given China a lot without bargaining or getting anything in return, we have supported their annexation of Tibet (by betraying Tibetans rather), we have supported them in UN, and now we are giving them billions of dollars of business even in non-essential goods, and all the while they are arming Pakistan in return. We are supposed to acknowledge One China, and they will issue stapled visas to some of our people. So why not close the flow of Chinese imports a bit, and use that as a bargaining chip, especially when they are wondering what to do with the excess capacity in their manufacturing units?

 

[OrionHunter]

Though the US was strongly pushing India's case and most member countries supported it, it was China which opposed it arguing that the NSG should not relax specific criteria for new applicants.

One of the biggest proliferators in nuclear technology is China. And they have the gumption to block India's entry into the NSG! Jeeez!

 

[dray]

A daily newspaper today carried out a story and mentioned the same thing. I'm not sure if Chinese opposition has much to do with NSG accommodating Pakistan rather than asking India for something in return for the support. South China Sea is one area where China wants India not only to stop whatever activities it is doing but also stop supporting the nations which have dispute in the region.
Similarly China may be looking for some trade concessions (removal of anti dumping duties etc) with India.
The leadership in China surely knows these facets that when it comes to Business and Trade, India is a significant nation and ultimately it is in interest of the two nations to remain in sync with each other.
In this context, i wrote my previous reply that if it is a case of negotiations, let our government talk to Chinese counterparts on the same and not blow the issue out of proportion. I'm sure China will see this point!


Depends on how much of a threat China sees Vietnam as.
In my reply to @Rain Man , i mentioned that Chinese opposition to this whole issue could be more than that of accommodating Pakistan and might have something to do exclusively with Sino Indian relations including trade issues. Our leadership therefore needs to talk to Chinese government directly and see what they really want and what we can accept. In this diplomatic bargain, it will always be a case of accepting a few demands here and there, but for both India and China, it is important that they keep long terms relations in focus.
as for NSG, India already enjoys almost all benefits to member states (as far as nuclear commerce is concerned), so a membership here will only increase India's say in policy formation. But an opposition here with India may do China more harm as this isn't the only issue between the nations.
Lets see how things pan out in next few months, but clearly neither of the two countries would want this issue to impact long term relationships.

Please check my above post in reply to Jaunty, the fact that the trade deficit China enjoy with us is itself a 'benefit' that may not remain 'permanent' should be made a bargaining chip. If we give away all our cards already, then what will we do for many more future negotiations for more important things? Our growing relations with Vietnam is something that can only be pitched against their relation with Pakistan, not for a NSG membership.

 

[Kal Muah]

Please check my above post in reply to Jaunty, the fact that the trade deficit China enjoy with us is itself a 'benefit' that may not remain 'permanent' should be made a bargaining chip. If we give away all our cards already, then what will we do for many more future negotiations for more important things? Our growing relations with Vietnam is something that can only be pitched against their relation with Pakistan, not for a NSG membership.

Trade is one thing where India can bargain with China the most. With a slowing economy of China, India can provide a huge market to boost their economic growth. China will gain nothing making enemy out of India.

 

[Indian009]

Different experts in debate on Rajya Sabha Tv channel were optimistic about the membership of NSG. However my personal view is "We will get seat only if USA persuade all others." Presently the way things are going USA has not shown direct interest but working behind the doors.

USA actully want China to Veto it !!!!!
That's why they are not aggressive.

China's veto will benefit USA a lot

 

[dray]

Trade is one thing where India can bargain with China the most. With a slowing economy of China, India can provide a huge market to boost their economic growth. China will gain nothing making enemy out of India.

Yes, and we have barely leveraged all the benefits we are already giving to China, I think it's time to leverage what we have already given them for nothing for smaller things like NSG membership, and consider any further benefits/acceptance of their demands for more important issues.

Btw @anant_s I believe our relations with China will remain confrontational for a very long term, we should accept this reality and mould ourselves into a hard-bargaining mode (between two rivals bordering enmity) instead of keeping any hope for 'winning their hearts/trust', 'developing friendship', etc. They see us as their prime contender in this region in the long term, and they will continue to do everything to throw roadblocks in our way to progress, and put us in trouble wherever they see an opportunity. That's why we need to attach a cost to their actions.

 

[mehboobkz]

One of the biggest proliferators in nuclear technology is China. And they have the gumption to block India's entry into the NSG! Jeeez!

Power flows through a shiny sword.
China is the tower of power.
It can afford to flex its muscles unlike others.

 

[dray]

Power flows through a shiny sword.
China is the tower of power.
It can afford to flex its muscles unlike others.

Consider a shiny new correct flag in your profile.

 

[Soulspeek]

Seeing the posts of some chinese bootlickers here is so hilarious. They seem to be more patriotic chinese than Chinese themselves.

Almost every other thread we see them wagging their tail and rolling on the ground at the mere mention of China. Nowhere else you would find a more willing slave than these people.

Not even an iota of shame!

 

[Kim Philby]

@mehboobkz

One question. What is your thought if India gets into NSG? Happy or Sad?

 

[mehboobkz]

@mehboobkz

One question. What is your thought if India gets into NSG? Happy or Sad?

It is good, if India got inducted into NSG.

 

[Kim Philby]

It is good, if India got inducted into NSG.

You gave a diplomatic reply just like politicians!! Still no happy or Sad?

 

[dadeechi]

You gave a diplomatic reply just like politicians!! Still no happy or Sad?

I would be very happy if both India and Pakistan could get in.

Pakistan ke bina kya mazaa?

 

[temporary12345]

Consider a shiny new correct flag in your profile.

If he is manavjivan of Twitter (This mehbkooz is running a promotional campaign for that Twiter handle + Writing style of both is same. So very high probability that both are same), he is a usual seditious muslim, probably Indian, and a gargantuan attention whøre. It is better to ignore him ,as during my brief stay on this forum, every-time he has posted something, it has turned out to be worse than sadakchaap crap you hear from rickshawalas. No logic. No finesse. No comedy. Nothing ,except hate filled drivel.