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NSG EXPANSION: A SURPRISING TWIST

Trade relations are not based on different alignments. Look at China/India trade...are they buddies? What about US/China trade? Certainly they oppose each other. So ur argument there falls flat. As for aid...US gives humanitarian aid to a ton of countries even if there's nothing to gain from it. India got so much humanitarian aid bcuz India had one of the biggest populations living below the poverty line. India was not always aligned with the West that is just a plain lie.

On foreign aid and partnerships
First India had no Soviet military bases.
Second you do not get $60 billion in economic aid from USA. humanitarian aid is in response to disasters. it is few million here or there.
Third India had excellent relationship with key American allies like UK and France. India's relationship with USA was never bad.

On Trade
USA and China are buddies at an economic level. Geopolitical disagreements do not change that. They need each other. India and China is a different story because we are competitors.

And again with the impeccable record...did u forget what NSG was created for? Or r u gonna again say "India's record is impeccable compared to Pak"...the problem with that argument is that's not how NSG evaluates a country's bid. Additionally Pak is not asking for that waiver. It's simple...India got that waiver bcuz of all the reasons I mentioned and its for those same reasons that western countries want India to have NSG membership.

NSG was created in response to Indian nuclear test. It was also meant to stop others who follow in India's path.
Pakistan is not asking the waiver because you cannot get one. Unless you change your foreign policies you cannot get 5 votes for your waiver.

Moreover if Pak was in the NSG then China(other NSG members wouldn't have much to gain) can do more business in Pak in terms of nuclear energy and it would no longer need to find loopholes as it did earlier.

China support for Pakistan is to derail or slow down Indian membership. It has nothing to do with Pakistan.
 
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You are confusing a decision to stop where we are with a failure to achieve objectives. Our threat - our nuclear threat, in those days - was China. There was, and is, no reason to build thermonuclear devices as a deterrent to China, and that is why we have well-functioning IRBMs. That is all we need.

@Chinese-Dragon

Please watch your wording.

An individual member made a claim; say what you like about that claim, please leave India out of it.
What's the problem ?
He said "Indian Lies Again", a singular Indian, unless such lies are so common that you immediately construe him as referring to majority of Indians.
He is not the only Indian, as we have witnessed many Indians making such false claims even after being debunked repeatedly.
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What's the problem ?
He said "Indian Lies Again", a singular Indian, unless such lies are so common that you immediately construe him as referring to majority of Indians.
He is not the only Indian, as we have witnessed many Indians making such false claims even after being debunked repeatedly.
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That depends on your interpretation. I will not accept ALL Indians being called liars, even if you claim, with no evidence whatsoever, that you have witnessed many Indians making false claims. It was not a single Indian, leave alone a singular Indian, in case you understand the difference.
 
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On foreign aid and partnerships
First India had no Soviet military bases.
Second you do not get $60 billion in economic aid from USA. humanitarian aid is in response to disasters. it is few million here or there.
Third India had excellent relationship with key American allies like UK and France. India's relationship with USA was never bad.
International Aid Becomes Foreign Policy
Building on the success of the Marshall Plan, President Harry S. Truman proposed an international development assistance program in 1949. The 1950 Point Four Program focused on two goals:
  • Creating markets for the United States by reducing poverty and increasing production in developing countries
  • Diminishing the threat of communism by helping countries prosper under capitalism
International Aid in the 1960s: An Agency is Born
In 1961, President Kennedy signed the Foreign Assistance Act into law and created USAID by executive order. Once USAID got to work, international development assistance opportunities grew tremendously. The time during the Kennedy and Johnson administrations became known as the “decade of development.”

International Aid in the 1970s: A Shift to Basic Human Needs
In the 1970s, the USAID began to shift its focus away from technical and capital assistance programs. Instead, U.S. development assistance stressed a “basic human needs” approach, which focused on:
  • Food and nutrition
  • Population planning
  • Health
  • Education
  • Human resources development
Read above...this is taken directly from the US aid website. This is my last post regarding the matter of US Economic Aid to India...after this u can still hold whatever opinion u like...but the fact of the matter is that India has one of the biggest population living below poverty line and as per the US policy, India received economic aid irrespective of geopolitical alignment.

On Trade
USA and China are buddies at an economic level. Geopolitical disagreements do not change that. They need each other. India and China is a different story because we are competitors.

Read that part u just said...the part that's colored red...now read below from ur previous post that I also colored red and see how u just defeated ur own logic.
"If India was aligned with Russia how come India is in the top five recipients of US economic aid. You won't find any other Russian client states in there. While India-US relationship oscillated India had extremely cordial relationships with France and UK. During the cold war USA was the largest or 2nd largest trading partner. The truth is that India has been aligned with the West on issues that count for a very long time."

...so at least we r in agreement now that trade relations are not always reflective of geopolitical alignment...and that any two nations can still be the biggest trade partners and yet not be aligned.

NSG was created in response to Indian nuclear test. It was also meant to stop others who follow in India's path.
NSG was created bcuz India misused civilian nuclear tech for its nuclear weapons program...and in order to prevent that from happening again NSG was created.

Pakistan is not asking the waiver because you cannot get one. Unless you change your foreign policies you cannot get 5 votes for your waiver.
That is ur opinion not at all based in reality...just mere speculation. The reality is that Pak didn't ask for the waiver nor has any real interest in joining the NSG...and most importantly Pak has nothing to gain from NSG. This recent sudden interest is only in light of India's bid for NSG membership. Pak doesn't want India to join bcuz India could block Pak in the future if Pak ever decided to apply.

China support for Pakistan is to derail or slow down Indian membership. It has nothing to do with Pakistan.
China's support for Pak is to derail Indian attempt and make sure if India gets in then Pak gets in too. Here the goals of China/Pak are aligned. Pak doesn't want India to get in bcuz that could prevent Pak from getting in at some later point and China mainly doesn't want India to get in...but if it does then China wants Pak in too(a close ally).
 
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That depends on your interpretation. I will not accept ALL Indians being called liars, even if you claim, with no evidence whatsoever, that you have witnessed many Indians making false claims. It was not a single Indian, leave alone a singular Indian, in case you understand the difference.
That's my interpretation, a single Indian in this case.
Obviously you interpret it as otherwise because you are frequently exposed to Indians lying.
Indians lying about "36% of NASA are Indians" even made it to the Indian Parliament by a Minister no less.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...e-Indians-Govt-survey/articleshow/2853178.cms
36% of scientists at NASA are Indians: Govt survey
The figures of Indian successes were given to the Rajya Sabha on Monday by D Purandeshwari, minister of state for HRD, in defence of the country's higher education system and the state of research.
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That's my interpretation, a single Indian in this case.
Obviously you interpret it as otherwise because you are frequently exposed to Indians lying.
Indians lying about "36% of NASA are Indians" even made it to the Indian Parliament by a Minister no less.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...e-Indians-Govt-survey/articleshow/2853178.cms
36% of scientists at NASA are Indians: Govt survey
The figures of Indian successes were given to the Rajya Sabha on Monday by D Purandeshwari, minister of state for HRD, in defence of the country's higher education system and the state of research.
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No, I am not frequently exposed to Indians lying. Your belligerence is unseemly for a person of your professed age.
 
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That depends on your interpretation. I will not accept ALL Indians being called liars, even if you claim, with no evidence whatsoever, that you have witnessed many Indians making false claims. It was not a single Indian, leave alone a singular Indian, in case you understand the difference.
Hey Joe remember our dicussion about generalization of an entire population? I'm not coming to the defense of the person u r arguing with...I'm just wondering what caused this change from ur usual behavior?
 
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Hey Joe remember our dicussion about generalization of an entire population? I'm not coming to the defense of the person u r arguing with...I'm just wondering what caused this change from ur usual behavior?

Just the gratuitous insult offered by a normally sane Chinese poster, followed up by his very polite withdrawal, but replacement by someone not at all involved, who started worrying an old bone. Very irritating.
 
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Read above...this is taken directly from the US aid website. This is my last post regarding the matter of US Economic Aid to India...after this u can still hold whatever opinion u like...but the fact of the matter is that India has one of the biggest population living below poverty line and as per the US policy, India received economic aid irrespective of geopolitical alignment.



Read that part u just said...the part that's colored red...now read below from ur previous post that I also colored red and see how u just defeated ur own logic.
"If India was aligned with Russia how come India is in the top five recipients of US economic aid. You won't find any other Russian client states in there. While India-US relationship oscillated India had extremely cordial relationships with France and UK. During the cold war USA was the largest or 2nd largest trading partner. The truth is that India has been aligned with the West on issues that count for a very long time."

...so at least we r in agreement now that trade relations are not always reflective of geopolitical alignment...and that any two nations can still be the biggest trade partners and yet not be aligned.


NSG was created bcuz India misused civilian nuclear tech for its nuclear weapons program...and in order to prevent that from happening again NSG was created.


That is ur opinion not at all based in reality...just mere speculation. The reality is that Pak didn't ask for the waiver nor has any real interest in joining the NSG...and most importantly Pak has nothing to gain from NSG. This recent sudden interest is only in light of India's bid for NSG membership. Pak doesn't want India to join bcuz India could block Pak in the future if Pak ever decided to apply.


China's support for Pak is to derail Indian attempt and make sure if India gets in then Pak gets in too. Here the goals of China/Pak are aligned. Pak doesn't want India to get in bcuz that could prevent Pak from getting in at some later point and China mainly doesn't want India to get in...but if it does then China wants Pak in too(a close ally).

On Economic Aid:
China was equally poor during the cold war. China did not get a dime. There was no US economic aid to Vietnam in the 1980s, Cuba after Castro, Angola and Mozambique. Some of these states were dirt poor. If India was truly a Soviet client or stooge we would not have gotten much. $60 billion does not include billions in World Bank loans.

On Trade:
There is a difference between enemies and rivals. India and Pakistan do not trade much. Arab states and Israel did not trade. North & South Korea do not trade. USA did not trade with Cuba, Iran, Libya, Syria when they were hostile. For that matter Pakistan did little trade with Russia.

All you have proved with your example is that India and China are in a class of their own.
As far as India and China go we are the largest countries on this planet. If USA was going to allow civilian nuclear technology to China India was next in line.

And again with the impeccable record...did u forget what NSG was created for? Or r u gonna again say "India's record is impeccable compared to Pak"...the problem with that argument is that's not how NSG evaluates a country's bid. Additionally Pak is not asking for that waiver. It's simple...India got that waiver bcuz of all the reasons I mentioned and its for those same reasons that western countries want India to have NSG membership.

NSG was created after Indian nuclear test. It does not mean it is directed solely at India.

Of course there is politics, some commercial interests also. Some of the NSG countries ask simple questions
Is the organization better off having a country in it or not ?
Has the country complied or willing to comply with the spirit and letter of nuclear non-proliferation agreements.

Pakistan is not asking for the waiver because there is no chance anyone will approve it

As for why China is blocking it and wants to add Pak alongside India to the NSG. This is bcuz NSG works based on a unanimous consensus...if India gets in before Pak, it could make things difficult for Pakistan if it ever wanted NSG membership. Moreover if Pak was in the NSG then China(other NSG members wouldn't have much to gain) can do more business in Pak in terms of nuclear energy and it would no longer need to find loopholes as it did earlier.

China pushed Pakistan membership solely to derail the case for Indian membership.
If Pakistan is not interested in getting a NSG waiver why are you interested in membership ?

China does business with Pakistan outside the NSG framework
 
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On Economic Aid:
China was equally poor during the cold war. China did not get a dime. There was no US economic aid to Vietnam in the 1980s, Cuba after Castro, Angola and Mozambique. Some of these states were dirt poor. If India was truly a Soviet client or stooge we would not have gotten much. $60 billion does not include billions in World Bank loans.
I like ur attempt at cherry picking US Aid to Vietnam being non existent in the 1980s but the picture looks much different when u paint the whole truth. While India was the top recipient of US economic aid at around $65 billion so far, Vietnam is also in the top 10 and received somewhere around $41 billion. Now based on the population of both u can easily calculate that Vietnam received a much higher economic aid per capita. And this is the same Vietnam where US lost the war and a communist regime took over. As for Angola and Mozambique they also received economic aid and continue to receive economic aid. I don't know where u r getting the data that they didn't.

US economic aid program is multidimensional, one cannot infer a simple good or bad relations based on the amount of aid given.

On Trade:
There is a difference between enemies and rivals. India and Pakistan do not trade much. Arab states and Israel did not trade. North & South Korea do not trade. USA did not trade with Cuba, Iran, Libya, Syria when they were hostile. For that matter Pakistan did little trade with Russia.

All you have proved with your example is that India and China are in a class of their own.
South Korea and North Korea don't trade bcuz they have other options. KSA and Israel don't trade bcuz they have other options. USA did not trade with Cuba bcuz USA could get whatever Cuba had to offer from elsewhere. These r fine examples of enemies not trading.

Now as for enemies actually trading I already gave u examples...China/India trade and US/China trade. The reasons for this aren't as u suggested that somehow India and China are special. The reason is simple economics. If India was to import everything it imports from China...from elsewhere it would cost more. This same applies to US/China trade. The moment some other country pops up that can provide those things at a cheaper price US(and other countries) wouldn't hesitate to buy those things from that said country. Remember the time when Japan was king in terms of exporting TVs and other such devices? Now South Korea and China have replaced much of that. Such is the cycle of trade...nothing is special about any country.

If anything this just further proves my point that u cannot draw a conclusion that two countries are buddies simply bcuz they traded with each other.

I understand that u brought up trading and economic assistance between US and India in order to back up ur argument about how US and India were always somehow aligned...but to put simply no correlation exists there.

As far as India and China go we are the largest countries on this planet. If USA was going to allow civilian nuclear technology to China India was next in line.
So just bcuz a country is big it deserves to be allowed civilian nuclear tech?...

...Or did u mean big in terms of population? which means high energy demands...and therefore money to be made by the countries who sell civil nuclear tech and fuel...the same countries who make up the majority of NSG...

Hmm I wonder if I included that in the list of reasons why they want to allow India in to NSG and gave that waiver.

NSG was created after Indian nuclear test. It does not mean it is directed solely at India.

Of course there is politics, some commercial interests also. Some of the NSG countries ask simple questions
Is the organization better off having a country in it or not ?
Has the country complied or willing to comply with the spirit and letter of nuclear non-proliferation agreements.

Pakistan is not asking for the waiver because there is no chance anyone will approve it
Again how do u know that? Do u come from an alternate reality where Pak did apply for the waiver and got shot down?
Plz do tell me what is there for Pakistan to gain by having that waiver or being a member of NSG? I don't see any potential gains for the foreseeable future and that's why there is no need to apply. Plz enlighten me if u do.

China pushed Pakistan membership solely to derail the case for Indian membership.
If Pakistan is not interested in getting a NSG waiver why are you interested in membership?
Pakistan's sole concern is just like how China is able to block India's bid...if India gets in without Pak then India can one day do the same...and though Pak doesn't need it right now but if India got in before Pak, this would potentially shut Pak out forever.

China doesn't want India to get in and nor does Pak(for the reason I listed above). But if push comes to shove and India has to get in then China wants Pak to get in at the same time as India(Pak wants that too...in order to prevent being blocked by India in the future).

To be honest if it ever came to it that the rules are amended to allow non NPT signatories like India and Pakistan in the NSG then it wouldn't really be NSG that it is today. What's the point of the rules that u set...if u r going to modify them at will to suit ur needs?
China does business with Pakistan outside the NSG framework
China had to jump through all kinds of loopholes in order to do that. Being an NSG member China is bound by certain rules and regulations, it can't just freely do whatever it wants. This is why it would be more beneficial for China if Pak was to become NSG member.
 
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I like ur attempt at cherry picking US Aid to Vietnam being non existent in the 1980s but the picture looks much different when u paint the whole truth. While India was the top recipient of US economic aid at around $65 billion so far, Vietnam is also in the top 10 and received somewhere around $41 billion. Now based on the population of both u can easily calculate that Vietnam received a much higher economic aid per capita. And this is the same Vietnam where US lost the war and a communist regime took over. As for Angola and Mozambique they also received economic aid and continue to receive economic aid. I don't know where u r getting the data that they didn't.

Vietnam got the aid during the war. It is like Afghanistan in the 2000's. It is distorted by the realities of the war. Equally staunch anti-communist Thailand got a fraction of the aid Vietnam received. The amount war ended Communist Vietnam got nothing. You do not get billions of dollars for being an enemy of USA. China did not get a dime when she was communist.

Angola got $34 million in aid from 1977 to 1988. A whopping sum indeed.
https://explorer.usaid.gov/data.html

US economic aid program is multidimensional, one cannot infer a simple good or bad relations based on the amount of aid given.

Show me how much aid was provided to the likes of Castro Cuba, pre-Nixon China, communist Vietnam, North Korea, post-Ayatollah Iran.

South Korea and North Korea don't trade bcuz they have other options. KSA and Israel don't trade bcuz they have other options. USA did not trade with Cuba bcuz USA could get whatever Cuba had to offer from elsewhere. These r fine examples of enemies not trading.

Now as for enemies actually trading I already gave u examples...China/India trade and US/China trade. The reasons for this aren't as u suggested that somehow India and China are special. The reason is simple economics. If India was to import everything it imports from China...from elsewhere it would cost more. This same applies to US/China trade. The moment some other country pops up that can provide those things at a cheaper price US(and other countries) wouldn't hesitate to buy those things from that said country. Remember the time when Japan was king in terms of exporting TVs and other such devices? Now South Korea and China have replaced much of that. Such is the cycle of trade...nothing is special about any country.

China is not an enemy of USA. Otherwise American companies would not running their factories in China. There is little China produces that the rest of the world cannot produce. As you pointed it is at a higher price.

So just bcuz a country is big it deserves to be allowed civilian nuclear tech?...

...Or did u mean big in terms of population? which means high energy demands...and therefore money to be made by the countries who sell civil nuclear tech and fuel...the same countries who make up the majority of NSG...

Hmm I wonder if I included that in the list of reasons why they want to allow India in to NSG and gave that waiver.

Most of the NSG countries do not stand to make a dime in nuclear trade with India. Your analysis did factor in some countries calculations.

Again how do u know that? Do u come from an alternate reality where Pak did apply for the waiver and got shot down?
Plz do tell me what is there for Pakistan to gain by having that waiver or being a member of NSG? I don't see any potential gains for the foreseeable future and that's why there is no need to apply. Plz enlighten me if u do.

You are trying to put a spin on a bad situation. It is a blunt fact Pakistan would not get more than 5 votes. Given the spectacle of the AQ Khan affair and involvement with terrorism no one is giving Pakistan a waiver. I do not what would bother me - selling nuke technology to the likes of North Korea, Libya and Iran or making a scientist as a scapegoat on national tv.

If you do not stand to gain anything why bother to apply with India ?

Pakistan's sole concern is just like how China is able to block India's bid...if India gets in without Pak then India can one day do the same...and though Pak doesn't need it right now but if India got in before Pak, this would potentially shut Pak out forever.

Countries do not think that far. If you are that farsighted you would have objected to the NSG waiver for India. Face it. You were brought along to derail India's membership.

China doesn't want India to get in and nor does Pak(for the reason I listed above). But if push comes to shove and India has to get in then China wants Pak to get in at the same time as India(Pak wants that too...in order to prevent being blocked by India in the future).

To be honest if it ever came to it that the rules are amended to allow non NPT signatories like India and Pakistan in the NSG then it wouldn't really be NSG that it is today. What's the point of the rules that u set...if u r going to modify them at will to suit ur needs?

The goal of the NSG is to control and to regulate nuclear commerce.

China had to jump through all kinds of loopholes in order to do that. Being an NSG member China is bound by certain rules and regulations, it can't just freely do whatever it wants. This is why it would be more beneficial for China if Pak was to become NSG member.

You make it sound like China plays by the rules.
Since India has a indefinite waiver and Pakistan does not we will see how China plays by the rules
 
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Vietnam got the aid during the war. It is like Afghanistan in the 2000's. It is distorted by the realities of the war. Equally staunch anti-communist Thailand got a fraction of the aid Vietnam received. The amount war ended Communist Vietnam got nothing. You do not get billions of dollars for being an enemy of USA. China did not get a dime when she was communist.

Angola got $34 million in aid from 1977 to 1988. A whopping sum indeed.
https://explorer.usaid.gov/data.html

Show me how much aid was provided to the likes of Castro Cuba, pre-Nixon China, communist Vietnam, North Korea, post-Ayatollah Iran.

China is not an enemy of USA. Otherwise American companies would not running their factories in China. There is little China produces that the rest of the world cannot produce. As you pointed it is at a higher price.
Lol China and US are not enemies? Have u been living under a rock? In the modern world for the forseeable future there is only one country that poses a real challenge/threat to USA and that's China.

...it's basically the Cold War in the making all over again except instead of USSR it's China.

Let's just put everything aside and let me just use ur logic...

According to u the trade and economic aid given somehow indicates that the two countries are aligned with each other(u tried to make that point about US and India)

"If India was aligned with Russia how come India is in the top five recipients of US economic aid."
US gave no aid to a communist China while it gave India the most aid.(u claimed that I haven't yet verified it)
--> This according to u implies that US/India were buddies...and indirectly would mean that US/China are "enemies" in a sense(or at the very least don't see eye to eye...u can term it whatever)

"During the cold war USA was the largest or 2nd largest trading partner [of India]"
Since China is currently the biggest trade partner of US
--> This would imply according to ur reasoning that China and US are buddies

So using ur reasoning we have reached a conclusion that US/China are buddies...and that they are enemies :o:

Most of the NSG countries do not stand to make a dime in nuclear trade with India. Your analysis did factor in some countries calculations.

You are trying to put a spin on a bad situation. It is a blunt fact Pakistan would not get more than 5 votes. Given the spectacle of the AQ Khan affair and involvement with terrorism no one is giving Pakistan a waiver. I do not what would bother me - selling nuke technology to the likes of North Korea, Libya and Iran or making a scientist as a scapegoat on national tv.

If you do not stand to gain anything why bother to apply with India ?

Countries do not think that far. If you are that farsighted you would have objected to the NSG waiver for India. Face it. You were brought along to derail India's membership.

U were the one who said Pak really wanted the waiver or membership and hasn't applied bcuz it will be rejected...so I asked u what is it that Pak would gain from it?

I still standby my point...Pak has nothing to gain from an NSG membership or the waiver...so when u say "It is a blunt fact Pakistan would not get more than 5 votes"...all I can do is laugh. What is a FACT is that India misused civilian nuclear tech and Pak sold nuclear tech to other nations

...something that hasn't yet happened(the 5 votes u keep bringing up) is only mere speculation on ur part and not a FACT.

The goal of the NSG is to control and to regulate nuclear commerce.
Not just regulate commerce...it's also supposed to safeguard that the nuclear tech provided for civilian use isn't diverted to a nuclear weapons program.

If NSG admits non NPT signatories in it then that defeats the purpose bcuz those non NPT signatories are not being bound to Non-Proliferation Treaty(NPT).

The rules only work properly when they apply without bias...if one party bends the rules according to its liking whenever it pleases then those rules just become a tool to serve them thus defeating the purpose the rules were originally created for.

You make it sound like China plays by the rules.
Since India has a indefinite waiver and Pakistan does not we will see how China plays by the rules
China has to play by the rules when it comes to civilian nuclear tech deals with Pak...otherwise it would be accountable since it is a part of NSG. Idk if u read it in the news...it was a while back...China had to go through a few loopholes to provide Pak with a nuclear reactor for energy purposes(it was grandfathered in...I don't remember the exact details). If China could do whatever it pleases then it wouldn't have had to find all those loopholes. This is why it would be more beneficial for China if Pak got in the NSG as well.

Anyways...from here on out let's just agree to disagree...I'm exhausted trying to prove my point...u can continue sticking to ur views and I'll stick to mine until something/someone proves me otherwise.
 
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Then you should not word it offensively. It's as easy as that. On an open forum, everyone reads everything. I don't generally rate personal insults otherwise you would have got another for calling me/us "rats". Mind your language.

Incidentally, as even blind, deaf and dumb members know, but you seem not to know, any complaints about ratings belong to the thread 'GHQ'. Ask the moderators nicely and they'll tell you again.

My issue is not you or the ratings, they dont mean anything to me, neither I am bothered. Surprisingly however, all the -ive ratings I have got is from you, which tell us that its only you who got the problem not the rest lot. My issue is how an Indian got his sort of privileges on a Pakistani forum. You lot should be way down the pecking order, be default.
 
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My issue is not you or the ratings, they dont mean anything to me, neither I am bothered. Surprisingly however, all the -ive ratings I have got is from you, which tell us that its only you who got the problem not the rest lot. My issue is how an Indian got his sort of privileges on a Pakistani forum. You lot should be way down the pecking order, be default.

It depends, actually, on who's doing the pecking. A cock rates; a turkey, gobbling and strutting up and down, doesn't.

Come back when you have the respect of those whom you consider your peers. I already have it, so to speak to me in your tone, you need it too.
 
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No, I am not frequently exposed to Indians lying. Your belligerence is unseemly for a person of your professed age.
What belligerence by me are you talking about ?
I made an off the cuff observation on your overeaction and that should have been the end of it.
I mean its not logical to construe that @Chinese-Dragon meant 1.3 billion Indians are ALL liars.

But you flame bait and insinuate that I made claims without evidence.
So I gave you that "36% of NASA are Indians" lie which is one of many examples.

I mean something is seriously wrong with Indian integrity that a falsehood is repeated in the Indian Parliament in support of a Minister's contention.
Based on that and many others, I wouldn't be surprised if someone surmise that lying is a general behavior of the Indians, but definitely not ALL.

You sure have a knack for insulting others though.
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