NSG EXPANSION: A SURPRISING TWIST

[wiseone2]

After discovery of nuclear technology by German Third Reich, no one invented the wheel again and gain, and technology continued to transfer from one country to other.

Countries you mentioned above are terrorists in your books doesn't mean they are terrorists

germans were not close to building to atom bomb. it might have taken at least a decade
if you think Iran, North Korea and Libya are paradigms of virtue feel free to emigrate there

 

[Joe Shearer]

Because of the powers who actually matter, i.e. the veto powers in the UNSC.

India never mattered. India didn't even exist in 1945.

You also need to do your homework, specifically, about India existing in 1945 and her membership of the UN, transferred from Indian government to Indian government; also, about the efforts of Pakistan to gain such inherited membership, and the ruling of the UN on her claim.

It seems that more than one set of people do their acquisition of urban legend from the Internet.

 

[friendly_troll96]

You just don't get it, do you?

In 1965, Pakistani generals encouraged their troops by saying that one Pakistani soldier was equal to six Indian soldiers. This was an initial view, and was sharply corrected, in public, by a senior officer, who redefined the equation by saying that one Pakistani soldier was equal to ten Indian soldiers.

This tradition continues into the field of cyber-warfare, which is what a great many of our good neighbours seem to take to be the role of PDF, along with a very large number of Indian posters. So one blog on their side is worth ten learned papers or researched articles on any other side.

Please take this lesson on board and stop obstructing the onward march of progressive forces that are historically predetermined winners.

progressive forces that are historically predetermined winners....

...and bearable to look at.
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unlike


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@Kaptaan @Areesh @django

 

[!eon]

germans were not close to building to atom bomb. it might have taken at least a decade

Yes, you were incharge of their defense programs or may be defense minister.

 

[Cookie Monster]

As far as Iran not being a headache tell that to your Saudis friends.

Yes I would tell Saudis the same thing. Iranians are not evil...they r just short sighted and engaged in a meaningless tug of war with KSA for hegemony. KSA is doing the same...they r just the flip side of the coin.

India has provided less than $15 billion in business on nuclear reactors. It is not enough to change votes

That's still $15 billion dollars more than what they would've had otherwise...and India is still the fastest growing country in terms of population so the need for energy is only going to rise. It would be better for these countries selling nuclear reactors and fuel if there were no restrictions for them to tap that market.

Pakistan has no business selling technology to North Korea, Iran and Libya. India's NSG waiver is a direct outcome of Pakistan's short sighted behavior

If u read my first post u will see how other countries have done shady things as well...that would be defined as "illegal". Just like how other countries do whatever the hell they want bcuz of their "interests" or whatever other reasons...just like that Pakistan can also do whatever it pleases.

As for India possibly gaining NSG membership...again read my first post in this thread. It has nothing to do with India's "impeccable record" bcuz India did its fair share of things it shouldn't have done according to the west. It's only bcuz India is a potential market to be tapped, India can be a counter to China, and India is aligning itself with the west.

 

[wiseone2]

Yes I would tell Saudis the same thing. Iranians are not evil...they r just short sighted and engaged in a meaningless tug of war with KSA for hegemony. KSA is doing the same...they r just the flip side of the coin.

I beg to differ. Pakistani leaders do not have the balls to tell the Saudis.
You could tell the Saudis. They might not call you back again.

That's still $15 billion dollars more than what they would've had otherwise...and India is still the fastest growing country in terms of population so the need for energy is only going to rise. It would be better for these countries selling nuclear reactors and fuel if there were no restrictions for them to tap that market.


If u read my first post u will see how other countries have done shady things as well...that would be defined as "illegal". Just like how other countries do whatever the hell they want bcuz of their "interests" or whatever other reasons...just like that Pakistan can also do whatever it pleases.

As for India possibly gaining NSG membership...again read my first post in this thread. It has nothing to do with India's "impeccable record" bcuz India did its fair share of things it shouldn't have done according to the west. It's only bcuz India is a potential market to be tapped, India can be a counter to China, and India is aligning itself with the west.

Yes I would tell Saudis the same thing. Iranians are not evil...they r just short sighted and engaged in a meaningless tug of war with KSA for hegemony. KSA is doing the same...they r just the flip side of the coin.


That's still $15 billion dollars more than what they would've had otherwise...and India is still the fastest growing country in terms of population so the need for energy is only going to rise. It would be better for these countries selling nuclear reactors and fuel if there were no restrictions for them to tap that market.


If u read my first post u will see how other countries have done shady things as well...that would be defined as "illegal". Just like how other countries do whatever the hell they want bcuz of their "interests" or whatever other reasons...just like that Pakistan can also do whatever it pleases.

As for India possibly gaining NSG membership...again read my first post in this thread. It has nothing to do with India's "impeccable record" bcuz India did its fair share of things it shouldn't have done according to the west. It's only bcuz India is a potential market to be tapped, India can be a counter to China, and India is aligning itself with the west.

The only problem with your logic is that India was always a market to be tapped. Why go through the charade of NSG for 3 decades and give up now ? If it is a pro-quid pro for NSG waiver the nuclear suppliers are not seeing them. India is yet to place a single order for nuclear reactors from USA which is the biggest backer of India's NSG waiver.

The West have done a responsible job of putting the genie back in the bottle. Your argument that everyone had shady deals holds no water. India was in bad shape economically in the 1980s. Yet India refused to allow any nuclear trade. India earned its impeccable record whether you like it or not. It is reflected in the NSG waiver status and 40+ votes for full membership. There is a huge difference between French nuclear technology finding its way into nuclear program of some country. Unlike Pakistan France has a legitimate nuclear industry with valid use cases for exports. Pakistan has none.

 

[Kaniska]

Sure, that's what India has "claimed" ( ) but it is worthless unless Pakistan gets into the NSG as well.

Then you should try to bring Pakistan too...What is wrong in it?? Every one knows that India and Pakistan are nuclear powers...What is the fun in keeping them out rather than including them in NSG..

 

[Cookie Monster]

I beg to differ. Pakistani leaders do not have the balls to tell the Saudis.
You could tell the Saudis. They might not call you back again.

I do not speak for Pak's leaders. I'm writing here the views I hold, which I try to base on facts as much as I can.

The only problem with your logic is that India was always a market to be tapped. Why go through the charade of NSG for 3 decades and give up now ? If it is a pro-quid pro for NSG waiver the nuclear suppliers are not seeing them. India is yet to place a single order for nuclear reactors from USA which is the biggest backer of India's NSG waiver.

The West have done a responsible job of putting the genie back in the bottle. Your argument that everyone had shady deals holds no water. India was in bad shape economically in the 1980s. Yet India refused to allow any nuclear trade. India earned its impeccable record whether you like it or not. It is reflected in the NSG waiver status and 40+ votes for full membership. There is a huge difference between French nuclear technology finding its way into nuclear program of some country. Unlike Pakistan France has a legitimate nuclear industry with valid use cases for exports. Pakistan has none.

I listed two more reasons along with "India being a market to be tapped", which u just left out and then called my logic flawed.

The question here isn't of France's record...and neither it is of Pakistan's record when it comes to India being given the waiver...

But just for the record France helped the Israelis with their nuclear program. In addition after France had independently built its nuclear weapons US helped to advance French nuclear weapons program. U can look it up and then continue to hold ur views but facts are facts.

As for India yes it was kept out...for as long as it wasn't needed to counter China bcuz China wasn't emerging on the world stage at the time...moreover India was aligned with Russia and US/west saw India as a Russian stooge. They went as far as to threaten taking military action remember that? I wonder what would've been the outcome had u tried getting an NSG waiver then...do u think the west would've been like "omg look at this impeccable record...here is ur waiver"?

So as I said India is being offered all kinds of goodies bcuz
- India is now aligned with the west
- India is needed by the west to counter China
- India is a market to be tapped

Now u can continue to believe whatever it is u want to believe but India's record isn't impeccable.

This is just the result of geopolitics...there are no angels here...only interests matter.

 

[wiseone2]

I do not speak for Pak's leaders. I'm writing here the views I hold, which I try to base on facts as much as I can.


I listed two more reasons along with "India being a market to be tapped", which u just left out and then called my logic flawed.

The question here isn't of France's record...and neither it is of Pakistan's record when it comes to India being given the waiver...

But just for the record France helped the Israelis with their nuclear program. In addition after France had independently built its nuclear weapons US helped to advance French nuclear weapons program. U can look it up and then continue to hold ur views but facts are facts.

As for India yes it was kept out...for as long as it wasn't needed to counter China bcuz China wasn't emerging on the world stage at the time...moreover India was aligned with Russia and US/west saw India as a Russian stooge. They went as far as to threaten taking military action remember that? I wonder what would've been the outcome had u tried getting an NSG waiver then...do u think the west would've been like "omg look at this impeccable record...here is ur waiver"?

So as I said India is being offered all kinds of goodies bcuz
- India is now aligned with the west
- India is needed by the west to counter China
- India is a market to be tapped

Now u can continue to believe whatever it is u want to believe but India's record isn't impeccable.

This is just the result of geopolitics...there are no angels here...only interests matter.

India record is impeccable on nuclear proliferation. Period. It is even more sparkling when put next to Pakistan's record. India got 40+ votes in the NSG body for full membership. Pakistan will be lucky to get more than 5 votes.

If India was aligned with Russia how come India is in the top five recipients of US economic aid. You won't find any other Russian client states in there. While India-US relationship oscillated India had extremely cordial relationships with France and UK. During the cold war USA was the largest or 2nd largest trading partner. The truth is that India has been aligned with the West on issues that count for a very long time.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

He needs to hug Trump below waist. who knows, might have already happened behind the closed doors of oval office.

@Horus deal with this Indian troll @Joe Shearer. Why these rats in the east are given right to give -ive ratings on a "Pakistani forum"?

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Horus deal with this Indian troll @Joe Shearer. Why these rats in the east are given right to give -ive ratings on a "Pakistani forum"?

Why don't you examine your own posts first? You might get the answers you seem to be seeking.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Why don't you examine your own posts first? You might get the answers you seem to be seeking.

My post was not meant for you. Shoo now.

 

[Joe Shearer]

My post was not meant for you. Shoo now.

Then you should not word it offensively. It's as easy as that. On an open forum, everyone reads everything. I don't generally rate personal insults otherwise you would have got another for calling me/us "rats". Mind your language.

Incidentally, as even blind, deaf and dumb members know, but you seem not to know, any complaints about ratings belong to the thread 'GHQ'. Ask the moderators nicely and they'll tell you again.

 

[My-Analogous]

It's all pretty pointless as long as China has veto.

China won't let India in the NSG because that would give India the ability to veto Pakistan's future entry. Doesn't matter if they want to or not, just the fact that they will gain the ability to do so is not acceptable.

India also play dirty politics against China recently and it is good think if China continuously show real place of India

 

[Cookie Monster]

India record is impeccable on nuclear proliferation. Period. It is even more sparkling when put next to Pakistan's record. India got 40+ votes in the NSG body for full membership. Pakistan will be lucky to get more than 5 votes.

If India was aligned with Russia how come India is in the top five recipients of US economic aid. You won't find any other Russian client states in there. While India-US relationship oscillated India had extremely cordial relationships with France and UK. During the cold war USA was the largest or 2nd largest trading partner. The truth is that India has been aligned with the West on issues that count for a very long time.

Trade relations are not based on different alignments. Look at China/India trade...are they buddies? What about US/China trade? Certainly they oppose each other. So ur argument there falls flat. As for aid...US gives humanitarian aid to a ton of countries even if there's nothing to gain from it. India got so much humanitarian aid bcuz India had one of the biggest populations living below the poverty line. India was not always aligned with the West that is just a plain lie.

And again with the impeccable record...did u forget what NSG was created for? Or r u gonna again say "India's record is impeccable compared to Pak"...the problem with that argument is that's not how NSG evaluates a country's bid. Additionally Pak is not asking for that waiver. It's simple...India got that waiver bcuz of all the reasons I mentioned and its for those same reasons that western countries want India to have NSG membership.

As for why China is blocking it and wants to add Pak alongside India to the NSG. This is bcuz NSG works based on a unanimous consensus...if India gets in before Pak, it could make things difficult for Pakistan if it ever wanted NSG membership. Moreover if Pak was in the NSG then China(other NSG members wouldn't have much to gain) can do more business in Pak in terms of nuclear energy and it would no longer need to find loopholes as it did earlier.