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Not so secular India

Just to set things straight, Pakistanis are foreigners to us and we are foreigners to them.

The logic of partition and the two nation theory demands that we treat each other as foreign countries. You don't worry so obsessively about the internal policies of other countries, only their foreign policies towards our countries should be really important.

Pakistanis trying to be advocate of Indian Muslims is only funny. They have nothing to do with anything Indian.

On the one hand this person was trying to advocate to Indians about the loyalty of Indian Muslims! Do we need to know that from the likes of him? A Pakistani who is so obviously suffering from so many insecurities and prejudices about India and the religion of most of Pakistanis' forefathers?

On the other hand we see what he has to say about a patriotic Muslim!

Pro Israel Muslims in India ...
I am the one of those muslims :yahoo:
Good. You pass the patriotism test.

Again.

How do u knw abt Indian Muslims ??
Original Post By Zeeshan360

We notice how you guys have to jump ever higher to prove your loyalty and patriotism.

Want to see some more mental gymnastics?

Islam says that a Muslim should be a good citizen of the country where they live, so the religious scholars should be encouraged to emphasize that aspect of Islam.
Original Post By Developereo

But for Indian Muslims you say this!

We notice how you guys have to jump ever higher to prove your loyalty and patriotism.
Original Post By Developereo
You are one funny guy.


So you see where this person is coming from!

Pakistanis need not concern themselves wth our internal political system or the condition of any Indians.

The best they can do is to stop training and sending the terrorists and the "non state actors" like Kasab.
 
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Just to set things straight, Pakistanis are foreigners to us and we are foreigners to them.

The logic of partition and the two nation theory demands that we treat each other as foreign countries. You don't worry so obsessively about the internal policies of other countries, only their foreign policies towards our countries should be really important.

Pakistanis trying to be advocate of Indian Muslims is only funny. They have nothing to do with anything Indian.

On the one hand this person was trying to advocate to Indians about the loyalty of Indian Muslims! Do we need to know that from the likes of him? A Pakistani who is so obviously suffering from so many insecurities and prejudices about India and the religion of most of Pakistanis' forefathers?

On the other hand we see what he has to say about a patriotic Muslim!





Want to see some more mental gymnastics?



So you see where this person is coming from!

Pakistanis need not concern themselves wth our internal political system or the condition of any Indians.

The best they can do is to stop training and sending the terrorists and the "non state actors" like Kasab.[/B]

Hence proved. All our combined efforts were to counter a bigoted hypocrite hell-bent on advancing his/her own propaganda to do their bit for the country. This whole topic was never about dialogue or peace. Rather, it was simply a propaganda instrument. Failed one though.
 
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I think some Indians are a bit touchy and have gone well off the topic in knocking pakistan and others. I thought it appropriete to put the OP back up so that we could all get back on topic and discuss why an indian Kuldip Nayar a former Indian High Commissioner to the United Kingdom and a former Rajya Sabha member felt it necessary to write:

Secular India seems to be faltering

The question raised is why, even after the intervention by the Supreme Court, have most of the guilty remained unpunished following the Gujarat pogrom in 2002
By Kuldip Nayar, Special to Gulf News
Published: 00:00 November 12, 2011


Massacres recede into history. But their memory haunts us. A strain of music, a candle light in the wilderness or a sad face re-enacts the tragedies once again. If concrete evidence emerges, it leaves us forlorn and helpless.

Two instances this week have brought back before me the killings in Gujarat and Delhi. Nadeem Saiyed, a key witness, was murdered in a street at Ahmedabad. Some thousands held a candle light vigil at India Gate to commemorate the memory of the 3,000 Sikhs killed in Delhi alone. Both are disconnected, but in a way they are not because both tell a sordid story of government's hand in the killings of Muslims in Gujarat and the Sikhs in Delhi. Records have been destroyed, FIRs burnt and till today the government continues to support the perpetrators of loot, murder and rape.

Another witness, Sanjeev Rajendra Bhatt, a senior police officer, also wants more security for his family and himself but there is no response. Bhatt had the courage to say in the open that he was present at the official meeting where Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi said to let the Hindus "vent their anger" during the clashes and that he wanted Muslims to be "taught a lesson." Hats off to Gujarat IPS Association for standing by Bhatt. In a letter to the chairman of the Special Investigation Team, Bhatt has said: "…Despite the passage of eight months, the government of Gujarat continues to play truant with respect to my security concerns…"

The question that has been posed again and again is that even after the intervention by the Supreme Court, the guilty have remained unpunished since 2002 after the Gujarat pogrom. The irony is that L.K. Advani's rath yatra (chariot rally), ostensibly to highlight corruption, was in Gujarat when Nadeem was murdered. I wish the rally could have been to bring the culprits of the 2002 massacre to book. Instead Advani praised the chief minister for his "excellent governance."


Mob rule

When I was at the candle-light vigil, I came face to face with Nirpreet Kaur. She was 16 years on November 2, 1984, when the mob came for her father, Nirmal Singh. The gurdwara next to their house in south Delhi's Raj Nagar had been set ablaze and a mob of about 450 was looking for more Sikhs to butcher. The Sikhs of Raj Nagar decided to confront the mob.

An hour later, Nirpreet recalled, a Youth Congress leader came to her father requesting him to "settle the matter." A day earlier, when violence against Sikhs broke out following the assassination of prime minister Indira Gandhi by her two Sikhs bodyguards, the youth leader had sworn to the Sikhs that they would be protected from violence. The youth leader went straight to the mob and handed Nirmal Singh over.

The oldest of three siblings, Nirpreet, ran to the mob but could only watch helplessly as her father was tied up and set ablaze. The family then fled to safety. When they returned to collect his ashes for Nirmal Singh's last rites, the area had been swept clean.

Nirpreet joined the Khalistan movement to avenge the brutal killing of her father. Nirpreet married a militant in November 1985. Twelve days after her wedding, the Delhi Police picked up her husband. He was never heard of again. Nirpreet then pregnant with her son was declared an absconder. In December 1986, Nirpreet's mother, Sampooran Kaur, was sentenced to three years in Delhi's high-security Tihar jail for "sheltering a terrorist."

Nirpreet's tale of woes is not different from what has happened to Zakia Jafri whose husband was cut into pieces at their residence in Ahmedabad and burnt in a bonfire. He was a former Congress MP. Even his contacts and calls to New Delhi when a Hindu mob was surrounding his residence brought him no help. Many people from the area had taken refuge at Jafri's house. They too were burnt alive. The Supreme Court has sent her case to the trial court for disposal.

This is not fair. The court could have said something on the role of the chief minister. At least, Bhatt's affidavit against Modi required some comment because he remains suspended from service. The story of Malegaon blasts is tragic. It once again shows the bias of authorities against Muslims whenever a bomb blast takes place. None of the suspects were released after they were wrongly jailed. A special Maharashtra Control of Organised Crime Act (MCOCA) last week granted bail to all the nine accused in the 2006 Malegaon blasts case after the National Investigation Agency (NIA) said it had no objection to any of their bail pleas.

Coming down heavily on the police, the Supreme Court has expressed its serious concern over the fake encounters saying "tolerance of police atrocities would amount to acceptance of systemic subversion and erosion of the rule of law."

Indeed, India is a pluralistic society. But it has a long way to go before it can be considered "secular", a word written within the preamble of the constitution. At present the government seems to be faltering.

Kuldip Nayar is a former Indian High Commissioner to the United Kingdom and a former Rajya Sabha member.

Oh dear Not so incredible and not so shiny maybe we have it a raw nerve here and the indian dream of secularism is just that a dream and a few words in their constitution
 
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I think some Indians are a bit touchy and have gone well off the topic in knocking pakistan and others. I thought it appropriete to put the OP back up so that we could all get back on topic and


etc etc etc...

Oh dear Not so incredible and not so shiny maybe we have it a raw nerve here and the indian dream of secularism is just that a dream and a few words in their constitution


Lol...Read the previous 24 pages before pulling out idiotic commentary from your derriere. Your'e asking everyone of us to go back around in a circle.
 
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"India is not secular" tripe has been repeated over a 100 times by some people here just in this thread.

Not to mention all the other threads that have been opened over many years on the same topis.

Gets them really in knots! No? ;)
 
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Why obsess over this though?

firstly havnt been on for about 20 pages cant be bothered responding to some of the drival that you and your mates come out with. You lot come in pakistani forum to tell us that we are obsessed with you. Get off your cloud and accept reality that indians are not only not secular but when they insist they are they are liars living in denial. Now come back on slag pakistan of as much as you like, slag me off still dont make india secular
 
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firstly havnt been on for about 20 pages cant be bothered responding to some of the drival that you and your mates come out with. You lot come in pakistani forum to tell us that we are obsessed with you. Get off your cloud and accept reality that indians are not only not secular but when they insist they are they are liars living in denial. Now come back on slag pakistan of as much as you like, slag me off still dont make india secular

Why does that matter to you?
 
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AISF COMDEMNS SANJIV BHATT’S HARRASMENT



Published on web at: 2011-11-13 18:04:53 +05:30. Section: Inside India section.
Inside India

All India Secular Forum (AISF) strongly condemned the harassment of IPS officer Sanjiv Bhatt by the Government of Gujarat. Bhatt was not allowed to meet his family members and even his lawyer and was reportedly denied home food. He is being treated like a criminal. AISF demands that his incarceration must end immediately and he should be released on bail. Sanjiv Bhatt is not the only IPS officer to be harassed and mistreated. Anyone who has dared to reveal the facts contrary to the stand of the Gujarat Government has faced similar harassment. RB Sreekumar, former DGP, Gujarat, Rahul Sharma, Kuldeep Sharma and Rajneesh Rai, are some of the examples.

Bhatt is a key witness in the Zakia Ahsan Jafri and he has claimed that he was present in the meeting held on February 27, 2002 addressed by the Chief Minister asking the police officials to allow the Hindus to vent their anger against the Muslims on the following day. Bhatt has also filed an affidavit in the Gujarat High Court stating therein that at the relevant time he had come across very important documentary evidence regarding the role of certain highly placed State functionaries/politicians and senior police officers of the State of Gujarat in the killing of Haren Pandya
. Bhatt’s wife on the other hand is fearful of his husband’s fate as he has been receiving constant threats.
 
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firstly havnt been on for about 20 pages cant be bothered responding to some of the drival that you and your mates come out with.
If you have no intention of reading through...then maybe you'd agree that your'e not here to gain knowledge, understanding or to spark honest dialogue?


You lot come in pakistani forum to tell us that we are obsessed with you. Get off your cloud and accept reality that indians are not only not secular but when they insist they are they are liars living in denial. Now come back on slag pakistan of as much as you like, slag me off still dont make india secular

Buddy, what your'e talking about is your faith that "India is not secular". Blind belief on something factually incorrect does not make it any more real. As for the preceding statements....i dont really care.

Besides, like vinod asked...Why do you care so much anyway?
 
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MUSLIMS BANNED FROM OFFERING PRAYERS IN SHOLAPUR



Published on web at: 2011-11-13 18:04:33 +05:30. Section: Inside India section.
Inside India



The right to preach, practise and follow the religion of one’s choice has been ingrained in our Constitution, but it seems that flouting Constitutional laws has become easier than following them. The law has been flouted once again when Muslims were barred from entering the mosque for their daily prayers in Sholapur. The mosque was constructed during the British rule and it is located inside the campus of police headquarters. It should be noted that from the past 126 years Muslims have been offering their congregational prayers regularly without any hindrance. In the past nothing took place that could disrupt the peace and tranquillity of the area, yet it is a matter of grief and sorrow that the local Muslims have not been allowed to offer their peaceful prayers for the past two Fridays. The small gate leading to the mosque has been closed so as to stop the entry of the Muslims. People are angry with the move of the Police Commissioner. When the Police Commissioner and other officials were confronted with the issue, they said that it has been reported that the arms and explosives have been ‘kept’ in the area and the decision to bar the entry into the mosques is taken as a protective measure.
 
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MUSLIMS BANNED FROM OFFERING PRAYERS IN SHOLAPUR



Published on web at: 2011-11-13 18:04:33 +05:30. Section: Inside India section.
Inside India



The right to preach, practise and follow the religion of one’s choice has been ingrained in our Constitution, but it seems that flouting Constitutional laws has become easier than following them. The law has been flouted once again when Muslims were barred from entering the mosque for their daily prayers in Sholapur. The mosque was constructed during the British rule and it is located inside the campus of police headquarters. It should be noted that from the past 126 years Muslims have been offering their congregational prayers regularly without any hindrance. In the past nothing took place that could disrupt the peace and tranquillity of the area, yet it is a matter of grief and sorrow that the local Muslims have not been allowed to offer their peaceful prayers for the past two Fridays. The small gate leading to the mosque has been closed so as to stop the entry of the Muslims. People are angry with the move of the Police Commissioner. When the Police Commissioner and other officials were confronted with the issue, they said that it has been reported that the arms and explosives have been ‘kept’ in the area and the decision to bar the entry into the mosques is taken as a protective measure.

And if arms are explosives are there is it wrong to deny them entry?

Dude....if there are explosives and god forbid, should any of them detonate....then you guys would be throwing another hissy fit damning India.

Protecting civilians is a crime now?....Christ..!
 
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And if arms are explosives are there is it wrong to deny them entry?

Dude....if there are explosives and god forbid, should any of them detonate....then you guys would be throwing another hissy fit damning India.

Protecting civilians is a crime now?....Christ..!

yea rite it takes them two weeks to find that out eh?
 
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