Not so secular India

[Bukhari.syed]

India can never be termed as secular

 

[Roybot]

I don't understand. If someone doesn't follow a single Hindu ritual, doesn't know the mythology and doesn't accept the sacred texts as sacred, and instead goes to Church to pray to Jesus, how on earth are they a Hindu?

I know it sounds cliched, but Hinduism is a way of life, its a culture more than religion. You don't have to go to temple or read holy books and scriptures to be a Hindu. Its not an organized religion like Islam. There is no central authority dictating Hindus to do this and not to do this. Hindus are free to worship God in any form and can give God any name, no one has issues with it.

I have never been to a temple in my life, never prayed in my life, am still a Hindu.

 

[fd24]

India claiming to be secular is quite incredible. Their politics revolves around chasing vote-banks based on religious affiliations. Congress looks for the minority votes, while the BJP goes after the Hindu votes.

Completely agree mate. Enjoy this...

A friend recently reminded me that India is a secular state,
prompting me to burst out laughing. It was the funniest
thing I had heard since someone used the words "honest" and
"politician" in the same sentence.

If India can accurately be described as "secular," then Mike
Tyson is well within his rights to call himself "stable."

To be sure, a young India groomed itself as a secular state,
one that would not favor a particular religion over another.
But the India of 1950 is not the same as the India of 2002,
Dev Anand's hairstyle notwithstanding.

It's a good thing Mahatma Gandhi isn't alive today to see
the religious hatred that the political leaders of "secular
India" have wrought. If he were to meet Narendra Modi, the
Gujarat chief minister who did little to prevent the recent
massacre of Muslims, Gandhi would be tempted to set aside
nonviolence for a few minutes to give Modi a good beating.

Western reporter: "Mr. Gandhi, you believe in nonviolence,
don't you? Then why did you strike Mr. Modi?"

Gandhi: "Mr. Modi turned a blind eye on the slaughter of
Muslims. I merely spent a few minutes turning his blind eye
into a black eye. Perhaps he can see better now."

Reporter: "But Mr. Gandhi, didn't you once say that an eye
for an eye would make the whole world blind?"

Gandhi: "Yes, but I was speaking in general terms. Man
cannot live without exceptions."

My dictionary defines secular as "not specifically relating
to religion or to a religious body." But even this
definition is open to interpretation. It can be argued, for
example, that the BCCI, India's cricket board, is "secular,"
despite the fact that millions of people follow cricket
religiously. Not to mention that so many of them worship
Sachin Tendulkar.

But it's harder to argue that the nation is secular, not
when politics and religion are so intertwined, when the
ruling BJP is described as a "Hindu nationalist" party, when
the government supports militant religious groups that turn
one Indian against another. Under these circumstances,
expecting India to be secular is like expecting Bill Clinton
to be celibate. It's virtually impossible.

We Indians are fond of describing our motherland as the
"world's largest democracy," a title that has been earned
partly through the efforts of ordinary people, who routinely
face two major challenges: (1) deciding which political
candidate to vote for: the corrupt one or the crazy one; and
(2) figuring out how to avoid the social worker from the
family planning office.

We are also fond of describing India as "secular," going so
far as to compare it to America, a country where the killer
of a Hindu is prosecuted as aggressively as the killer of a
Christian, where the police are required to give equal
protection to ordinary citizens, whether they worship Jesus,
Allah, Shiva or Tendulkar. If that reminds you of India,
perhaps you need a few more visits to your psychiatrist.

When western reporters use the term "Hindu India" or
"Hindu-dominated India," some Indians are quick to criticize
them: "India is a secular country, you morons. It is not
like Saudi Arabia, Iran, or, god-forbid, Pakistan."

Call me crazy, but I'd rather have a "Hindu India" that
values EVERY life than a "secular India" that turns its
back on religious minorities.

Humor: Religious India defeats secular India

 

[Vinod2070]

I don't understand. If someone doesn't follow a single Hindu ritual, doesn't know the mythology and doesn't accept the sacred texts as sacred, and instead goes to Church to pray to Jesus, how on earth are they a Hindu?

Hinduism is not a religion as in the Abrahimic religions where you have to just believe what one person (or a set of persons) claimed.

Kinda take it or leave it.

We have hundreds of versions of just Ramayana for instance. Some people consider Ravan to be a hero.

Everything is open to interpretation and experience. It is more of a guidance to discover the true path for yourself.

Of course there are also prescriptions in excruciating details for those who prefer that.

Much more detailed than anywhere else.

 

[Hafizzz]

This hatred will consume Pakistan and is already doing it.

This is the reason why people associate Islam with terror and extremism.

Kaffir China will not lift a finger for you Muslims. They hate Muslims and have a negative perception of Pakistan.

Negative views of Muslims were also strong in several Asian countries: Half or more of the Japanese, Indians, Chinese and South Koreans surveyed said they had negative impressions of Muslims.

Anti-Jewish and anti-Muslim attitudes rise in Europe - The New York Times

They would never risk a single Chinese life for Pakistan, let alone their cities and millions of their citizens.

Our relations are actually excellent, trade is going to top $100 billion soon.

Its interesting that you look to a kaffir country to solve your issues. And actually believe they will risk their well being for you?

This when not a single Islamic country is not doing that?

Western Media is trying to divide Chinese from Pakistani and then conquer them separately.

No matter how hard Western Media or India Media try to drive a wedge between China and Pakistan, the friendship between China and Pakistan will be glued stronger than Crazy Glue can hold them together !!!

 

[rcrmj]

India can never be termed as secular

indeed but this simple fact seems too difficulf for those ego thursty brainwashed indians to comprehend

 

[Vinod2070]

indeed but this simple fact seems too difficulf for those ego thursty brainwashed indians to comprehend

The word describes you very well.

CCP zombies? Check

Brainwashed? Check

Hides his high IQ really well? Check

You pass the CCP Chinese test.

 

[true_indian]

Its like Pakistanis and Chinese are hell bent on proving India is not secular. It doesn't matter what they think but how Indians see it. I can also give blanket statements like all Pakistanis support terrorism, and all Chinese support killing their own men in the name of development. It would be impossible to refute these points as well when I disagree with every thing you say.

They are many Indian Muslims, Christians, Singhs, Jains and few Buddhists on this forum. They are all more than fine with India and that's all matters. And your accusations are just rants without support from people who are actually living it.

 

[Vinod2070]

Its like Pakistanis and Chinese are hell bent on proving India is not secular. It doesn't matter what they think but how Indians see it. I can also give blanket statements like all Pakistanis support terrorism, and all Chinese support killing their own men in the name of development. It would be impossible to refute these points as well when I disagree with every thing you say.

They are many Indian Muslims, Christians, Singhs, Jains and few Buddhists on this forum. They are all more than fine with India and that's all matters. And your accusations are just rants without support from people who are actually living it.

The Chin are just trolling.

For some Pakistanis, it is a basic need, more than even food, water and air.

 

[Ambitious449]

See mate you have to understand fabric of India. We are using nuclear power but still some people using energy created by burning woods. We have sent space shuttle on Moon but still some people travelling by bullock cart. India has most advanced missile tech. but adivasis still use Teerkamataha for defense. We have one of the biggest economy in the world but still some people earn less than 20 rs. per day. India has Indira Gandhi, Frieda Pinto, Sania Mirza and India have Bhanvari devi, Roopkunvar and many depressed women. Such a huge and diverse country . Yes most of the peole are secure. Many hindus follow strict rojas and many muslims participate in Ganesh Festival. still there are some morons in Hindu and Muslims. India is country of contrasts. We have come a long way but phir bhi bahot door jana hai. You can't generalise this huge diverse country. No one statement cant describe India. Still we are together with all our differences and divercity and walking on the way to become global power thats says all. Regards.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Completely agree mate. Enjoy this...

A friend recently reminded me that India is a secular state,
prompting me to burst out laughing. It was the funniest
thing I had heard since someone used the words "honest" and
"politician" in the same sentence.

If India can accurately be described as "secular," then Mike
Tyson is well within his rights to call himself "stable."

To be sure, a young India groomed itself as a secular state,
one that would not favor a particular religion over another.
But the India of 1950 is not the same as the India of 2002,
Dev Anand's hairstyle notwithstanding.

It's a good thing Mahatma Gandhi isn't alive today to see
the religious hatred that the political leaders of "secular
India" have wrought. If he were to meet Narendra Modi, the
Gujarat chief minister who did little to prevent the recent
massacre of Muslims, Gandhi would be tempted to set aside
nonviolence for a few minutes to give Modi a good beating.

Western reporter: "Mr. Gandhi, you believe in nonviolence,
don't you? Then why did you strike Mr. Modi?"

Gandhi: "Mr. Modi turned a blind eye on the slaughter of
Muslims. I merely spent a few minutes turning his blind eye
into a black eye. Perhaps he can see better now."

Reporter: "But Mr. Gandhi, didn't you once say that an eye
for an eye would make the whole world blind?"

Gandhi: "Yes, but I was speaking in general terms. Man
cannot live without exceptions."

My dictionary defines secular as "not specifically relating
to religion or to a religious body." But even this
definition is open to interpretation. It can be argued, for
example, that the BCCI, India's cricket board, is "secular,"
despite the fact that millions of people follow cricket
religiously. Not to mention that so many of them worship
Sachin Tendulkar.

But it's harder to argue that the nation is secular, not
when politics and religion are so intertwined, when the
ruling BJP is described as a "Hindu nationalist" party, when
the government supports militant religious groups that turn
one Indian against another. Under these circumstances,
expecting India to be secular is like expecting Bill Clinton
to be celibate. It's virtually impossible.

We Indians are fond of describing our motherland as the
"world's largest democracy," a title that has been earned
partly through the efforts of ordinary people, who routinely
face two major challenges: (1) deciding which political
candidate to vote for: the corrupt one or the crazy one; and
(2) figuring out how to avoid the social worker from the
family planning office.

We are also fond of describing India as "secular," going so
far as to compare it to America, a country where the killer
of a Hindu is prosecuted as aggressively as the killer of a
Christian, where the police are required to give equal
protection to ordinary citizens, whether they worship Jesus,
Allah, Shiva or Tendulkar. If that reminds you of India,
perhaps you need a few more visits to your psychiatrist.

When western reporters use the term "Hindu India" or
"Hindu-dominated India," some Indians are quick to criticize
them: "India is a secular country, you morons. It is not
like Saudi Arabia, Iran, or, god-forbid, Pakistan."

Call me crazy, but I'd rather have a "Hindu India" that
values EVERY life than a "secular India" that turns its
back on religious minorities.

Humor: Religious India defeats secular India

what minorities are you talking about ?

i am one among them and i can tell you that if there is a discrimination happening it is mostly happening against the majority and in favour of minority.
be it common civil code

reservations

handling of Hindu temples and wealth.




or latest proposed bill against communal violence..etc

we will correct what ever small imperfections regardless of it being for or against majority or minority.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Is Secular India really Secular and Islamic Pakistan really Islamic?

Revisiting the History through the words of a Nobel LaureateI heard him again yesterday speaking at BBC program hard talk, and I must say that I wished that I could listen to him as long as possible. Such clarity in ideas is rare to witness. Amartya Sen, who is a Nobel Laureate in economics, had many wise things to say.
He said that there is a huge difference between religion as a personal matter and religion as a political phenomenon. This simple but at the same time intricate expression, explains a lot which has happened since 1947 in subcontinent India.
Though Sen is a self proclaimed atheist, he claimed he is/can be associated with Hinduism as a political entity. Well, same was true with Muhammad Ali Jinnah, who was a secular, but had to give up to the political pressure exerted by religious rhetoric coming out of the echelons of congress led by Gandhi. Despite Ghandi being a profound secular, he was strictly religious, and in his life his political identity primarily had come from Hinduism rather than being a ’secular Gandhi’. Later after his death, though the world knows him as a Secular Gandhi, in India he is identified as the demi god of contemporary Hindu history. Despite his claims of being secular, if anything Gandhi represented the political force which primarily symbolized ancient civilisation of Hindu India rather than multicultural India of nineteenth century.

Similarly a least religious man Jinnah, has to come to Muslim league, for his political identity. Muslim league was a party which was clearly dependent upon Islam, whereas Islam had been one of the most influential political forces till the mid 1880s not only in Sub continent India but larger Asia and Africa.
Thus 1947 was an outcome of two independent political and cultural forces, one being more indigenous in nature and one being more global in nature. The question was which force will overcome the other or whether they can retain their independent identities as well as political power.
Clearly Jinnah thought that in larger India, Muslims will be exploited by Hindus, as Hindus were in overwhelming majority. To sustain Islam as a political force in South Asia, Jinnah went on to ask for a separate homeland for Muslims.

Hinduism and Islam as political forces were much like two political parties. Only one could have ruled and one would be subjugated by the other. Only the emergence of Pakistan would have ensured that Jinnah’s Islam would not live under the rule of Ghandi’s Hinduism.
Generally Muslims and Hindus or Islam and Hinduism do not seek to confront the other in pure religious sense. As Sen pointed out, both religions co-existed quite peacefully for centuries after the advent of Islam in sub continent India. Art, culture and science actually blossomed under the multicultural environment of India.

However both Islam and Hinduism become violent whenever they rise as opposite political forces. And then it doesn’t matter whether you belong to a so-called religious state or you are the largest democracy in the South and self proclaimed secular. The outcome of religion as a political entity has the same effect on secular India as it has on Islamic Pakistan. This has happened in 1947 and this is happening today.

Today, India is indeed a secular country but stained with forces of Hinduvta extremists which have nothing to do with religion and every thing to do with politics. Pakistan has it all mixed up, but again it is a country where religion is used as a political tool. The fate of Islamic Pakistan is much similar to that of Secular India. Pakistan, much like today’s India, can quite easily become a secular state with majority Muslims. It will never be politically correct to blame Jinnah. He did meant Pakistan to be a secular state. If anything, the blame goes to the subsequent dictatorial rules in Pakistan, especially that of Zia-ul-Haque, who transformed a political movement of secular Muslims of Pakistan into an extremist religious movement, by introducing religious laws into this country.

Secular India, may not be ’SECULAR’ in a sense we perceive secularism should be, but yes it is a state run by secular laws but dwelled by majority Hindus, a lot many of whom are extremists much like mullahs of their neighbouring country. The reality is that secular India and atheist Amartya Sen associate themselves with Hinduism for their respective political identities in the globe as Pakistan looks for an Islamic identity.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Also securalism does not mean everyone will become secular, it just means that state is secular, the state is secular for sure.

You are forgetting that state cannnot run automatically . Imagine how bal thakrey will run the secular state ? We have seen the secular role of minister Mohdi in Hindu vs Muslim massacre in Gujarat.

There is also a huge hue and cry about reservation for 'backward' castes in the private sectors as well as elite business and academic schools. This means that irrespective of an individual's merit, he or she will have to be a slave to the caste and religion quota. This is compromise. Not secularism.

One set of laws for all, one education system for all, irrespective of their backgrounds or religious beliefs is the true definition of Secularism. Anything else is just fundamentalism.

 

[KS]

Its like Pakistanis and Chinese are hell bent on proving India is not secular. It doesn't matter what they think but how Indians see it. I can also give blanket statements like all Pakistanis support terrorism, and all Chinese support killing their own men in the name of development. It would be impossible to refute these points as well when I disagree with every thing you say.

They are many Indian Muslims, Christians, Singhs, Jains and few Buddhists on this forum. They are all more than fine with India and that's all matters. And your accusations are just rants without support from people who are actually living it.

Dude its not Singhs..its Sikhs.

Even Gorkhas,Yadavs,Jats, Rajputs,Dogras,Ahirs,Gujjars use the surname 'Singh'.

 

[KS]

How do you think Han Chinese went from being one small tribe along the Yellow River, to being (by far) the largest ethnic group on the planet?

By a lot of breeding.

Good for you.

Epic