Not aware of any audit of F-16s in Pakistan, says Pentagon Read more at: http://timesofindia.india

[Placemat]

LOL why you (india ) always prtending to be Victimize nation, you India (India) is in delusional/face saving mode, World with us on Balakot strike and 27 FEB air battle, you have no proof about balakot strike and short down of F-16D, you're delusional/face saving mode @Chowkidar placemat

But he is not a Pentagon corespondent you know @Chowkidar placemat


don't change the topic and you're puppet of USA against China @Chowkidar placemat

I am neutral soon to be Aussie observer. They are still journalists and report what they are fed from their sources. Lara is reporting from Pentagon source, chidanand is reporting from his US govt source.
Like I said there is more to this. And people like us may never know the truth possibly for a long time .
You may attack.e personally but I am just a civilian like u. We know no more than each other in this.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Chidanand rajghatta is a veteran and a well respected professional. He is a quality journalist.

Not when it comes to Pakistan. All you have to do is read the kind of language he uses when reporting on Pakistan in his previous pieces.

Additionally, there is a follow up piece from Asia Times in this that backs up the Foreign Policy reporting and the fact that there is no outright denial of the foreign policy piece from the Pentagon, and the State Department refuses to comment.

Had there been no audit, both Pentagon and State Department would have issued outright denials instead of one saying ‘not aware’ and the other ‘no comment’.

Add in the Pakistani evidence in terms of the missiles from the MiG-21 showing they weren’t fired and we can all see what happened.

 

[Placemat]

LOL why you (india ) always prtending to be Victimize nation, you India (India) is in delusional/face saving mode, World with us on Balakot strike and 27 FEB air battle, you have no proof about balakot strike and short down of F-16D, you're delusional/face saving mode @Chowkidar placemat

But he is not a Pentagon corespondent you know @Chowkidar placemat


don't change the topic and you're puppet of USA against China @Chowkidar placemat

You made a specific topic that Indians don't know any US rules and are negotiating NSG. Well Indians on this forum are not

 

[TheDarkKnight]

US needs to be in Pak good books for Afg and their own interests regd F16 capability.

Trying to be in good books by blocking Coaltion Support Funds, publicly accusing Pakistan of double games and then supporting Indian stance in UNSC for placing Masood Azhar in terror black list? US has never lied about loss of US equipment in all other cases such as those lost by Israeli AF, and their own losses in Iraq war and Bosnia War. Why would they start lying to save PAF skin to piss off their new Indian ally!!!

Chidanand rajghatta is a veteran and a well respected professional. He is a quality journalist.

Then why is he misleading by taking word of one unnamed source and publicizing it as a statement from Pentagon? Why is he spinning a lack of knowledge about the audit from one unnamed source, who simply said is "not aware" of such an audit, as a categorical denial of any audit being done by US personnel for PAF F16s?

My question is again, why Indians are not scrutinizing unnamed sources now like they did for the FP article? And why are they not actually insisting US to go and conduct such an audit as per the agreements with Pakistan, and leak the results to the public to support Indian narrative? When is Pentagon going to come out with a statement that in our recent audit of PAF F16s one was actually missing?

 

[Placemat]

Not when it comes to Pakistan. All you have to do is read the kind of language he uses when reporting on Pakistan in his previous pieces.

Additionally, there is a follow up piece from Asia Times in this that backs up the Foreign Policy reporting and the fact that there is no outright denial of the foreign policy piece from the Pentagon, and the State Department refuses to comment.

Had there been no audit, both Pentagon and State Department would have issued outright denials instead of one saying ‘not aware’ and the other ‘no comment’.

Add in the Pakistani evidence in terms of the missiles from the MiG-21 showing they weren’t fired and we can all see what happened.

Fine, you may believe what thou want. And like I said, there are still too many ifs and buts. Too many unknown sources, no comments and circumstantial evidence.
As I said yesterday I did accept that F16 may not have been downed but assumed to have been.
But today i may have to take a step back. I am still not saying I am correct. I could be wrong. Being a part of root cause analysis teams, I know what is conclusive evidence, root cause and contributory cause , typically , when I see one.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I am neutral soon to be Aussie observer. They are still journalists and report what they are fed from their sources. Lara is reporting from Pentagon source, chidanand is reporting from his US govt source.
Like I said there is more to this. And people like us may never know the truth possibly for a long time .
You may attack.e personally but I am just a civilian like u. We know no more than each other in this.

Lara is not civilian, you fool she is Pentagon corespondent, in other thread there is link of her twitter account clearly states that she is Pentagon corespondent, you're not a neutral guy and you narrow minded pathetic indian, look you flag @Chowkidar placemat

You made a specific topic that Indians don't know any US rules and are negotiating NSG. Well Indians on this forum are not

And why you assume that we have replacement of our downed F-16 from Jordan, without US approval/audit resale this not possible @Chowkidar placemat

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Being a part of root cause analysis teams, I know what is conclusive evidence, root cause and contributory cause , typically , when I see one.

From a scientific and legal perspective, let me also point out that India has offered absolutely ZERO evidence in support of her claims. They’ve allegedly shown Indian journalists images of radar showing what is supposed to be 2 blips - one of the MiG 21 and another of the F-16, with the second showing the alleged F-16 vanished. Leave alone the fact that this has not been released publicly so there can be no independent analysis, there are multiple reasons for a radar signal to disappear.

So with everything in the public domain that can be analyzed, the Pakistani position is by far the more credible one. Objectively, there is no way you can consider the two claims to be on an equal footing.

Lara is not civilian, you fool she is Pentagon corespondent, in other thread there is link of her twitter account clearly states that she is Pentagon corespondent, you're not a neutral guy and you narrow minded pathetic indian, look you flag @Chowkidar placemat


And why you assume that we have replacement of our downed F-16 from Jordan, without US approval/audit resale this not possible @Chowkidar placemat

She is a civilian - she is the Pentagon correspondent for Foreign Policy, as in she is a journalist with Foreign Policy that covers Pentagon related affairs for Foreign Policy - she isn’t a Pentagon employee.

 

[Ultima Thule]

She is a civilian - she is the Pentagon correspondent for Foreign Policy, as in she is a journalist with Foreign Policy that covers Pentagon related affairs for Foreign Policy - she isn’t a Pentagon employee.

Ok sir but she is better than Hindustan times @AgNoStiC MuSliM sir

From a scientific and legal perspective, let me also point out that India has offered absolutely ZERO evidence in support of her claims. They’ve allegedly shown Indian journalists images of radar showing what is supposed to be 2 blips - one of the MiG 21 and another of the F-16, with the second showing the alleged F-16 vanished. Leave alone the fact that this has not been released publicly so there can be no independent analysis, there are multiple reasons for a radar signal to disappear.

So with everything in the public domain that can be analyzed, the Pakistani position is by far the more credible one. Objectively, there is no way you can consider the two claims to be on an equal footing.

And also what is the proof that these record was dated at 27 FEB @AgNoStiC MuSliM

 

[Placemat]

Trying to be in good books by blocking Coaltion Support Funds, publicly accusing Pakistan of double games and then supporting Indian stance in UNSC for placing Masood Azhar in terror black list? US has never lied about loss of US equipment in all other cases such as those lost by Israeli AF, and their own losses in Iraq war and Bosnia War. Why would they start lying to save PAF skin to piss off their new Indian ally!!!


Then why is he misleading by taking word of one unnamed source and publicizing it as a statement from Pentagon? Why is he spinning a lack of knowledge about the audit from one unnamed source, who simply said is "not aware" of such an audit, as a categorical denial of any audit being done by US personnel for PAF F16s?

My question is again, why Indians are not scrutinizing unnamed sources now like they did for the FP article? And why are they not actually insisting US to go and conduct such an audit as per the agreements with Pakistan, and leak the results to the public to support Indian narrative? When is Pentagon going to come out with a statement that in our recent audit of PAF F16s one was actually missing?

Did Pakistani scrutinise the unnamed senior official from Pentagon?
You are correct in asking why US is making this statement. Like I said I may be wrong. But so could you. At our level we don't know what is happening out there. I can even go as to say that the probability that f16 was NOT downed is higher than the probability it was. But not like 99 to 1 but more like 60 to 40.
In this situation there are vested interests on all sides .

Lara is not civilian, you fool she is Pentagon corespondent, in other thread there is link of her twitter account clearly states that she is Pentagon corespondent, you're not a neutral guy and you narrow minded pathetic indian, look you flag @Chowkidar placemat


And why you assume that we have replacement of our downed F-16 from Jordan, without US approval/audit resale this not possible @Chowkidar placemat

I don't respond to personal attacks. I thought chowkidar is a parody of a tag. I am not rapidly fanatic.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Fine, you may believe what thou want. And like I said, there are still too many ifs and buts. Too many unknown sources, no comments and circumstantial evidence.
As I said yesterday I did accept that F16 may not have been downed but assumed to have been.
But today i may have to take a step back. I am still not saying I am correct. I could be wrong. Being a part of root cause analysis teams, I know what is conclusive evidence, root cause and contributory cause , typically , when I see one.

What is the proof that these radar recording was dated at 27 FEB @Chowkidar placemat

I don't respond to personal attacks. I thought chowkidar is a parody of a tag. I am not rapidly fanatic.

You're not neutral at all, you have just your false assertions/speculation, and please tell me how on earth 2/2.5 gen interceptor armed with only short range air to air missiles can shot down modern 4.5 gen F-16 armed with BVR ( AIM-120 C-5) please tell me that @Chowkidar placemat

 

[Placemat]

From a scientific and legal perspective, let me also point out that India has offered absolutely ZERO evidence in support of her claims. They’ve allegedly shown Indian journalists images of radar showing what is supposed to be 2 blips - one of the MiG 21 and another of the F-16, with the second showing the alleged F-16 vanished. Leave alone the fact that this has not been released publicly so there can be no independent analysis, there are multiple reasons for a radar signal to disappear.

So with everything in the public domain that can be analyzed, the Pakistani position is by far the more credible one. Objectively, there is no way you can consider the two claims to be on an equal footing.


She is a civilian - she is the Pentagon correspondent for Foreign Policy, as in she is a j and Indiaournalist with Foreign Policy that covers Pentagon related affairs for Foreign Policy - she isn’t a Pentagon employee.

I completely accept your position. That pak has more credible evidence . See my earlier statement to someone on prObabiliy. India has somehow not put out the evidence but I would not derive a conclusion from this.
It's just like Pak is not letting anyone go to the balakot camps. India has shown photo evidence of the roof getting damaged. Anywatmy it's all in public domain.

What is the proof that these radar recording was dated at 27 FEB @Chowkidar placemat


You're not neutral at all, you have just your false assertions/speculation, and please tell me how on earth 2/2.5 gen interceptor armed with only short range air to air missiles can shot down modern 4.5 gen F-16 armed with BVR ( AIM-120 C-5) please tell me that @Chowkidar placemat

Hiw did srilanka win a test series in south Africa?
It's all rhetorical.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

“according to senior IAF pilots, the R-73 missile has a proximity fuse, that detonates the entire missile when it homes in on the target. “…The infrared seeker right in front is completely destroyed when it detonates. No part is left intact,” the senior IAF official told Asia Times.”
....

“Lockheed Martin, the manufacturer of the F-16, said the company had not received any contact from Pakistan over the F-16. “Usually, the original equipment manufacturer is immediately contacted when their aircraft goes down. However, there was no inquiry sent from Pakistan,” a senior official said. “This adds further credence that no F-16 was lost.”
https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/04/article/us-officials-shoot-down-indian-claims-of-f-16-kill/

India has shown photo evidence of the roof getting damaged. Anywatmy it's all in public domain.

That evidence (re Balakot strike claims by India) has been debunked by multiple independent (non-Indian) satellite image analyses and independent reporting by multiple media organizations from Balakot.

Here too India has no takers for her claims outside of India.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

Did Pakistani scrutinise the unnamed senior official from Pentagon?

I can speak for my self at least, No I did not and I don't dismiss this story here as well just because of unnamed sources - that's how journalism works, all sources cannot be named. The credibility to be judged is of the journalist and the news agency.
In this instance of reporting from Pentagon, Lara and FP is much more credible and her unnamed sources are providing much clearer details and claims. Where as TOI and Mr Chidanand source has simply denied knowledge by stating he/she is "not aware" which doesn't equate to a contradiction of facts established by the FP article. To summarize TOI and Mr Chidanand's (an ex veteran as you said your self) don't have the same credibility in this matter because:
1) He has mislead by taking word of one unnamed source and publicized it as a statement from Pentagon.
2) He is spinning a lack of knowledge about the audit from one unnamed source, who simply said is "not aware" of such an audit, as a categorical denial of any audit being done by US personnel for PAF F16s. If one source says "I don't know" it doesn't mean it did not happen - if the source is qualified would have stated "No we did not do such an audit" or "This story is false as no such audits happen" etc. then the opinion propagated by TOI may have some credibility.

 

[Arsalan 345]

Lockheed Martin, the manufacturer of the F-16, said the company had not received any contact from Pakistan over the F-16. “Usually, the original equipment manufacturer is immediately contacted when their aircraft goes down. However, there was no inquiry sent from Pakistan,” a senior official said. “This adds further credence that no F-16 was lost.”

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/04/article/us-officials-shoot-down-indian-claims-of-f-16-kill/

 

[Placemat]

“according to senior IAF pilots, the R-73 missile has a proximity fuse, that detonates the entire missile when it homes in on the target. “…The infrared seeker right in front is completely destroyed when it detonates. No part is left intact,” the senior IAF official told Asia Times.”
....

“Lockheed Martin, the manufacturer of the F-16, said the company had not received any contact from Pakistan over the F-16. “Usually, the original equipment manufacturer is immediately contacted when their aircraft goes down. However, there was no inquiry sent from Pakistan,” a senior official said. “This adds further credence that no F-16 was lost.”
https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/04/article/us-officials-shoot-down-indian-claims-of-f-16-kill/


That evidence (re Balakot strike claims by India) has been debunked by multiple independent (non-Indian) satellite image analyses and independent reporting by multiple media organizations from Balakot.

Here too India has no takers for her claims outside of India.

Ok.. to be honest I cannot add more to this discussion. At this point it does seem that given no information rather evidence from Indian side it does appear that Pak has the upper hand.