North Korea long-range rocket broke apart after launch

[gambit]

Here is a good article that is instructive on what happened without getting too technical...

There's A Reason It's Called Rocket Science : NPR

North Korea this week quite literally demonstrated an old truism, with the world as an anxious witness. It turns out that reaching space is, as the saying goes, as tough as rocket science.

Failure Is Always An Option

"A rocket is an extremely complex device. There are millions of pieces and therefore millions of opportunities to make errors — to make errors in calculations, to make errors in construction," Walsh says.

And in rocket science, failure is always an option, says Walsh. He points out that while the capability to launch either a spacecraft or a warhead is substantially the same, producing a nuclear bomb such as the one North Korea successfully tested in 2006 "turns out to be far easier to do than to develop a three-stage rocket that can carry it halfway around the world."

Now that is quite interesting...A portable nuclear explosive device is easier to develop and produce than a multi-stage rocket.

Here is why...

"Testing is everything in a rocket program, and you can't control the variables that way," Thielmann says. "The more you change things around, the less likely you are to get usable results."

For those of you who mocked US for out ABM program that we had 'rigged' tests, I will repeat what is well known in testing: EVERY test, and that may include the last type up to deployment, is a 'rigged' test.

Your mockery is a sign of your ignorance.

In testing, the most important thing is variables control, meaning you make INCREMENTAL introduction of variables, such as weather or people and under people it would include proficiency and stupidity. From a bicycle to an F-1 racer to an ICBM, EVERY test is a rigged test. Your radar is not yet ready for weather? Then test it on sunny days until your development made it ready for rainy days. You think your aircraft is ready for the field? Let us introduce a klutz, a freshly trained mechanic, an experienced mechanic, and the master technician and see how ready is your aircraft. Next we will introduce salt laden air instead of dry desert air. Now we will see how 'ready' is your aircraft for presentation.

For the rocket scientist in the article, what he meant is that for his nuclear oriented colleague, EVERY variable is under the nuclear scientist's control. Uranium enrichment problem? That is your fault, not Mother Nature. Centrifuge too fragile under high rpm? That is your fault for not finding sufficiently good steel.

But for this rocket scientist, the moment his rocket is off the ground, its fate is out of his hands. He must design it to deal with everything short of tornadoes and hurricanes thrown at his rocket. It is not as if the President in a moment of national security crisis order a launch and the reply goes: 'Sorry, sir. But the wind is 10 mph so we cannot retaliate. Then for tomorrow we have rain in the forecast. So we cannot retaliate tomorrow either.'

Launching a cargo into orbit and leave it there is doubly less complicated than launching the same cargo into orbit, leave it there for a while, no matter how long is that 'while', then returning it safely back to Earth. And yes, the nuclear warhead's safety in orbit is paramount. Whatever you do with it after orbit is your business and a different issue, but until that point where you discard it, its safety from launch to orbit to descent is the most important thing in the program.

"We can see evidence that they are digressing from a well-managed program," he says.

The South Koreans have started salvage operations and there is NOTHING the North Koreans can do about it except to kiss the remains goodbye. The South Koreans and the Americans will have a field day with the forensics. We are one hundred times the experts at this than the North Koreans. We will find clues about their rocket technology in details they are too stupid to realize we could.

Now is the best time to pressure North Korea, both militarily and diplomatically. The military stick will be big and spiked but the diplomatic carrot will be stale, not fresh.

 

[shuttler]

The South Koreans have far more military experience today than the PLA have accumulated for the past 30 yrs...!!! They engaged in annual exercises with US. They supported US in Iraq and Afghanistan. No matter whatever capacity, it is still valuable experience with foreigners -- allies and enemies. What does China have in comparison? Zilch.

You can have a thousand more drills but its the real war that matters. so far we haven't had a head to head contention yet after 1953. There is no point using these practices as measurements - because we operate different systems. SK needs international exposure because they are dependent on outsiders to fight a war. We do not. We can fight a war on our own! Do you get it?

 

[gambit]

You can have a thousand more drills but its the real war that matters. so far we haven't had a head to head contention yet after 1953. There is no point using these practices as measurements - because we operate different systems. SK needs international exposure because they are dependent on outsiders to fight a war. We do not. We can fight a war on our own! Do you get it?

I really do hope your PLA generals thinks like you do.

No point in using training and exercises, at home and abroad, as a guide on how to measure a military. No point in saying 10 hrs of cockpit time is better than 1. No point in saying that 6 months deployment at sea is better than 6 days playing coast guard.

For those of us who served in our respective militaries, members of this forum and the silent readers out there, now we all know why the label 'conscript rejects' is so applicable to all of you.

 

[kawaraj]

the combat capability of SKorea could be a joke, gambit you need have a reality check.

the combat capability in Asia is always, reasonably,

Japan, China, Vietnam, Pakistan, India, then it's your dearly love Korean troops.

China leads in the Army and Strategic (Missile) force; then it comes to Japan,Vietnam and Pakistan.
Japan leads in Navy and Airforce; then China and India, Pakistan.
South Korea is in nowhere.

 

[SOHEIL]

NAME : North Korea long-range rocket broke apart after launch

 

[shuttler]

I really do hope your PLA generals thinks like you do.

No point in using training and exercises, at home and abroad, as a guide on how to measure a military. No point in saying 10 hrs of cockpit time is better than 1. No point in saying that 6 months deployment at sea is better than 6 days playing coast guard.

For those of us who served in our respective militaries, members of this forum and the silent readers out there, now we all know why the label 'conscript rejects' is so applicable to all of you.

you completely lost what I meant and are thinking extremely naive! what do you think our boys are doing during their services @ the various camps? keep blowing hot air about the "internationalized" experience do not show much muscle at all! To all of u vietcongs and the likes, there is no comparison when go into real war against us. I give you another 1000 hours of training and go to Syria joining the rebels and come back for the real deal! You guys are less than military school boys who cry for their mom when pants are wet!

 

[protest]

Lol same thing with India

Coming from a Pakistani whose country couldn't even build a proper satellite let alone a rocket to launch it to space, its priceless buddy. Keep it up.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Already busy fishing it out of sea, I presume. A lot of companies will be in trouble after parts analysis reveal which companies supplied which parts.

not gonna happen
the rocket go up to 72 km then exploded but still go up to 150km then begin to fall at the time it had an speed of 8 time the speed of sound, after that it was free fall from 150km into sea. and don't forget in free fall sped increase by 1g/sec.
what they are gonna fish is nothing more than metal strips and probably 95% of it must be taken from the depth of the sea.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

the combat capability of SKorea could be a joke, gambit you need have a reality check.

the combat capability in Asia is always, reasonably,

Japan, China, Vietnam, Pakistan, India, then it's your dearly love Korean troops.

China leads in the Army and Strategic (Missile) force; then it comes to Japan,Vietnam and Pakistan.
Japan leads in Navy and Airforce; then China and India, Pakistan.
South Korea is in nowhere.

Japan is no match for in both conventional and nuclear power.

But i have to admit that they have seriously whipped our a$$ during the early half of WWII thanks to that weakling government KMT.

However, PRC is a differently matter when it comes to equipment and training.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

That was from the memories of WW II.


But you provided no explanations on how to deal with this 'sudden collapse' if it ever will occur. It is somewhat odd since you came from a country that experienced such a collapse. Do not tell the South Koreans on the dire economic and social consequences. Tell them the mistakes Germany made, how to recognize signs of certain problems, and what methods Germany found best to deal with them. Since Germany's neighbors were helpless to stop that collapse and the unification, what good is it to tell the South Koreans that their neighbors may be feeling the same? Does Korea have the same reputation as Japan, vis-a-vis IMPERIAL JAPAN? How many neighbors are there in the region that fear a united Korea where fleets of Korean warships will beach themselves on foreign lands?

You and I are similar in the sense that we came from divided countries that became one again. And yet the readers here clearly see who want a people united and who want that same people divided. I know your kind. You object to a united Korea not because you really give a sh!t about the Korean people but you just want a convenient jab at US via a US ally.

I'm not Korean and neither do I know Korea well enough to give an explanation on how to deal with a sudden collaps. But if that should happen, I'm very sure it's going to be messy and unpleasant for many, many people in Korea and the surrounding area.

And where did I compare Korea with Germany and Japan of the past? Korea has always been a pawn of others and I don't think neither China, Russia or Japan should be afraid of Korea at any time.

At hindsight, I think it would have been better to form a federation of two German states until the East has reached the West level and then constitute current form of a united Germany, but it's too late now. Although we were seperated for 40 years with lots of animosities and Cold War rhetorics, but people-to-people contacts were pretty close and most of us were quite familiar with each others situations, which both Koreas are nowhere comparable with.

As as a matter of fact, I really do give sh!t about the Korean people.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

You can thank your buddy China, the best friend of tyrants and dictators around the world, for that.

for what?

 

[Korean]

I'm not Korean

And neither German, just a Chinese national.

But if that should happen, I'm very sure it's going to be messy and unpleasant for many, many people in Korea and the surrounding area.

The ROK is protected by the DMZ. The same doesn't hold true for China, although I understand that China is in the process of erecting its own border fences.

Korea has always been a pawn of others

This is where you got it wrong in the first place.

 

[Korean]

the combat capability of SKorea could be a joke,

Yet the US has entrusted the wartime command of its own troops deployed in Korea to Korean Defense Ministry from 2015 and onward.

This is a powerful endorsement. You don't hear the US doing the same to Japan, so the US DoD certainly knows something that you don't.

China leads in the Army and Strategic (Missile) force

Chinese army, while numerous, is disorganized and poorly trained. It's sort of like a six-headed dragon that fires flame at the other head as each head sees the other head as the enemy in the domination over China's political structure.

 

[Aramsogo]

And neither German, just a Chinese national.


The ROK is protected by the DMZ. The same doesn't hold true for China, although I understand that China is in the process of erecting its own border fences.


This is where you got it wrong in the first place.

Unless you've shot up a school or university, you're not Korean-American either.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

And neither German, just a Chinese national.

That's when you are out of argument.

The ROK is protected by the DMZ. The same doesn't hold true for China, although I understand that China is in the process of erecting its own border fences.

So, Korea remains divided, even after reunification.

This is where you got it wrong in the first place.

Proof me wrong!