North Korea Goes Nuclear

[Luftwaffe]

gambit..there are weapons truly destructible awesome power that will sink those post WWII carriers.. won't withstand them mark my words I'm not talking about celebration day rockets..better surf this forum you'll find abundant information on weapons..

 

[sergente rehan]

That statement my friend is utterly bull crap!!!

This is a country that has nothing, not even enough food every year for there people, and there are going to dominate militarily.

Also, after kim's jong death there is going to be much chaos, where I believe China is just waiting to take over. This country has been bigger headache for China then any others.

dude when India and Pakistan did there Nuclear test we don't have billions of dollars in our state accounts like the western countries....nobody expect this from us and the same goes for North Korean they have also so called national pride and i think if they ever had a possibility to have some nukes they will do anything to have them. I only keep one thing in my mind: never underestimate anybody!!

maybe they can also surprise the whole world one day...maybe sooner...or maybe in next dozens of years.

 

[sergente rehan]

Leave Japan, Japan is only sucking up to the US because they got a few Feet-licking politicain but believe me they hate the US for what they did to them.

I'm quite sure of that..after all U.S. droped 2 atom bombs on Japan during II world war killing millions of civilians (and nobody criticize them for this horrible act) but now days Japan is completly under U.S. controll they even can't have a decent Army...i mean an independent army from U.S. control and they have got some sort of relations with North Korea as Pakistan with India!

Maybe all these tensions between Japan and NK are because of U.S.

 

[jeypore]

dude when India and Pakistan did there Nuclear test we don't have billions of dollars in our state accounts like the western countries....nobody expect this from us and the same goes for North Korean they have also so called national pride and i think if they ever had a possibility to have some nukes they will do anything to have them. I only keep one thing in my mind: never underestimate anybody!!

maybe they can also surprise the whole world one day...maybe sooner...or maybe in next dozens of years.

I doubt it that they will surprise the whole world, but the outcome will be South Korea will finally merge with the north. And the road will began when Kim jong dies, but the factor will be china on how fast the merger will happen.

On a side note to luftwaffe, MZUBAIR, and ARSENAL6, India aspirations are very high, I know the thinks tanks where thinking to take over NK to feed the 50% of hungry Indians living on the street.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

You may have no understanding about the atrocities committed by the japanese upon the civilians and prisoners of wars---.

The japanese didnot understand the term defeat even though they were defeated once the u s navy took out the japanese navy in the pacific. The numbers of casualties that the americans were seeing just by conquering the small islands previously being occupied by the japanese---they realized that america will have to pay a terrible price if it had to end up conquering japan.

Such a high price would be paid by the americans in life and material that america even if it won the war---would be / maybe crippled itself for a long time to come due to a heavy loss of man and material. For that reason---the nukes were sanctioned against the japanese targets.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Coming down to how to sink a carrier---first of all---who is going to find out where the carrier group is at a given time---secondly what resources do you have to target a carrier battle group---I mean to say---just by lobbing icbm's in the area ain't gonna do any good---a nuclear tipped cruise missile will do the job---but where it would be launched from and what kind of aerial assets would used to get it close enough to strike to actual target and how many of them would be needed to be launched to get through to the actual target.

Sinking a present day carrier is no easy job---.

 

[booo]

N Korea threatens military action

North Korea has warned of a military response after South Korea joined an anti-proliferation exercise which could allow it to search the North's ships.
The North said it is no longer bound by the armistice which ended the Korean War in 1953.
A military spokesman quoted by official media said Pyongyang could no longer guarantee the safety of shipping.
Its latest threat comes after two days of underground nuclear tests and several missile launches.
The United Nations Security Council is working on a strong condemnation of what it says is North Korea's contravention of its conventions.
Anti proliferation
South Korea announced on Tuesday that it would not delay any longer in joining the Proliferation Security Initiative (PSI) - a US-led non-proliferation campaign involving searching ships carrying suspicious cargos and aimed at stopping the trafficking of weapons of mass destruction.

North Korea has repeatedly warned that the South's participation in the PSI would be tantamount to a declaration of war.
Joining the PSI "is a natural obligation", South Korean Foreign Minister Yu Myung-hwan said, quoted by South Korea's Yonhap news agency. "It will help control North Korea's development of dangerous material."
North Korea's response has been firm.
"Any hostile act against our peaceful vessels including search and seizure will be considered an unpardonable infringement on our sovereignty and we will immediately respond with a powerful military strike," a spokesman for the North's army was quoted as saying by the official KCNA news agency.
Reactivated reprocessing?
North Korea has fired five short-range missiles in two days, despite strong censure from the international community, including China and Russia.

Q&A: North Korea nuclear test
What are N Korea's motives?
Meanwhile South Korean media reported that steam was seen coming from North Korea's nuclear plant at Yongbyon, suggesting the fuel reprocessing plant there had been reactivated.
"US spy satellites recently spotted various signs of the once frozen reprocessing facility being reactivated, such as water vapour coming from it," an unidentified official told the Chosun Ilbo newspaper. Similar reports were carried by the Yonhap news agency.
The North announced last month it was quitting a six-nation nuclear disarmament agreement and would reopen the Yongbyon plant, closed in July 2007 as part of a disarmament deal.
That threat last month was prompted, it said, by the UN Security Council's censure of North Korea's 5 April rocket launch.
Censure dilemmas
Washington is calling for a quick and unified response by the international community that will make it clear to North Korea that there are consequences for its actions.
Diplomats from the five permanent Security Council member countries plus Japan and South Korea have been meeting behind closed doors to discuss a new resolution.
"We are thinking through complicated issues that require very careful consideration," said the US ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice.
US State Department spokesman Ian Kelly also said the door was still open to resume long-running six-party talks and that the US was looking at a "whole range of options".
It is a sign of the delicate balance required to handle the reclusive country, the BBC's State Department correspondent Kim Ghattas reports from Washington.
China shares a border with North Korea and worries about pushing Pyongyang too far, so it is unclear what sort of measures might be taken now and how North Korea would respond, our correspondent adds.
This week's test and missile launches came after North Korea walked away from long-running disarmament talks.
It agreed in February 2007 to abandon its nuclear ambitions in return for aid and diplomatic concessions.
But the negotiations stalled as it accused its negotiating partners - the US, South Korea, Japan, China and Russia - of failing to meet agreed obligations.

 

[gambit]

Hi,

You may have no understanding about the atrocities committed by the japanese upon the civilians and prisoners of wars---.

Most people do not, especially those in forums like this one who would like to use the A-bombs as convenient rhetorical clubs over America's head. Subjects like Unit 731...

Unit 731 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unit 731 (731 部隊, Nana-san-ichi butai?) was a covert biological and chemical warfare research and development unit of the Imperial Japanese Army that undertook lethal human experimentation during the Second Sino-Japanese War (1937–1945) and World War II. It was responsible for some of the most notorious war crimes carried out by Japanese personnel.

...Are not forgotten by the rest of Asia. The Japanese called themselves 'The Yamato Race' with emphasis on 'race'. During the war, the sons of leading political Asian families were taken back to Japan to be indoctrinated that it was the duty and honor for the rest of Asia to serve 'The Yamato Race' when the war is over. The Axis powers intended to divide the world into two kingdoms, the Western Hemisphere will be under the rule of the Germanic/Nordic race while the Eastern Hemisphere will be under Imperial Japan, the Yamato.

The japanese didnot understand the term defeat even though they were defeated once the u s navy took out the japanese navy in the pacific. The numbers of casualties that the americans were seeing just by conquering the small islands previously being occupied by the japanese---they realized that america will have to pay a terrible price if it had to end up conquering japan.

Such a high price would be paid by the americans in life and material that america even if it won the war---would be / maybe crippled itself for a long time to come due to a heavy loss of man and material. For that reason---the nukes were sanctioned against the japanese targets.

Correct to a point. The Japanese knew they were militarily defeated, they just simply refused to accept surrender. Operation Ketsu-Go...

OPERATION KETSU-GO

The strategy for Ketsu-Go was outlined in an 8 April 1945 Army Directive.(4) It stated that the Imperial Army would endeavor to crush the Americans while the invasion force was still at sea. They planned to deliver a decisive blow against the American naval force by initially destroying as many carriers as possible, utilizing the special attack forces of the Air Force and Navy. When the amphibious force approached within range of the homeland airbases, the entire air combat strength would be employed in continual night and day assaults against these ships. In conducting the air operations, the emphasis would be on the disruption of the American landing plans. The principal targets were to be the troop and equipment transports. Those American forces which succeeded in landing would be swiftly attacked by the Imperial Army in order to seek the decisive victory. The principal objective of the land operation was the destruction of the American landing force on the beach.

...Would have all of Japan to be at a guerrilla warfare footing with no one spared the duty of resistance.

Amazon.com: Zero Fighter: Akira Yoshimura: Books

Yoshimura research showed there were underground factories that escaped US bombings. Weapons from rifles to tanks to aircrafts like the famous Zero were being produced on the backs of the elderly and children. Industry was reduced to using a petroleum-peanut oil combination. The Quantung Army, although defeated in mainland China, was still a capable fighting force and was on the march home. With their combat experience and fanaticisms, the occupation of Japan would have been a hundred times more bloody for both sides. Further...When the war was over and the Japanese home islands under occupation, it came out that even AFTER Hiroshima and Nagasaki were destroyed, the military refused to submit. The Emperor had a surrender speech prepared but a cadre of officers attempted a palace coup to intercept the speech from the Emperor. In retrospect, the decision to use nuclear weapons was correct given this now known level of determination by the Japanese military to continue the war. Much crocodile tears have been shed for the Japanese just to spite the US.

 

[jetLi]

It is a crazy country.
The leader is a donkey asshole.
there are lots of people in N.Korea starve to death .

 

[nightcrawler]

NK isnt going to fool play yep!! I think that NK surely will fascinate the world in next coming years. The reason is that geograpically & politically its a great ally of the communist world (Russia & China). Also NK is way too far to be caught up in direct contact with US aircraft carriers & its attackers (which unfortunately is the case with Iran as well as Pakistan) because Russia ain't going to allow USA to come nearby its territory with a fully loaded GUN!!
With respect to technical support in the missile technology I think they have got plenty

 

[sob]

Just saw this article on the internet. Makes for interesting reading.

The North Korean nuclear test: What the seismic data says | Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists

Article Highlights
■Based on seismic data, the explosive North Korea detonated yesterday was larger than its first nuclear test in 2006.
■However, its yield was still far short of the expected yield of a crude Hiroshima-type bomb.
■More than likely this means North Korea tried and failed to get a simple plutonium bomb to detonate correctly.

According to early reports, Monday's North Korea event certainly seems like a deliberate explosion in the right place. However, it was too small to be a successful Hiroshima-class crude explosive device, by a factor of three or four. The reported estimates of Richter magnitude spread from 4.5-5, and the standard conversions to explosive yield suggest a yield of 2-6 kiloton-equivalents of TNT. Most of the latest Richter magnitude estimates have come in the low half of the 4.5-5 range, so it seems likely that the yield was 4 kilotons or smaller.

That's a lot of energy, much larger than the 2006 North Korean test, but it still falls far short of an expected 12-20 kiloton yield of a crude Hiroshima-style device. For comparison's sake, the first nuclear tests of all other nations that are self-announced members of the nuclear club had larger yields than this latest North Korean test.

Because the expected Hiroshima-style explosion didn't occur, there are four options as to what did happen during the test:

■the device failed to detonate properly;
■the device was a higher-tech device designed for smaller yield with less fissile matter (e.g., missile warheads or briefcase bombs);
■the North Koreans faked a nuclear explosion with conventional explosives;
■or the North Koreans detonated a larger device in a large cavity to muffle its yield.
The first option is the most likely case given what is publicly known about North Korean diplomacy and technology.

It's important to realize that nuclear tests in the past 15 years have primarily been demonstrations of power and national will, rather than driven by engineering. The two different kinds of simple bombs are uranium 235-based and plutonium-based. The United States used one bomb of each type on Japan in the closing months of World War II, with roughly similar explosive yields. The technology for a uranium 235 bomb is so simple, relatively speaking, that such a device need not be tested. To wit, the United States dropped the uranium 235 Hiroshima bomb without testing its design in a controlled detonation. Conversely, building a plutonium-based bomb represents a technical challenge because the critical mass can blow apart in a split second before the detonation reaches max efficiency. Once U.S. weapon designers confirmed the trickier detonation scheme of a plutonium device in the famous Trinity Test in 1945, confidence in the simpler uranium 235 detonation design seemed justified.

The technology for making the raw material for each device differs. Uranium 235 must be separated from the heavier isotope uranium 238 to make a bomb, so a country that buys or builds high-tech centrifuges is investing in those types of bombs. The term "enriched uranium" refers to uranium metal with an increase of the 235 isotope that's sufficient to allow an explosive chain reaction to occur. (Complete separation of the two isotopes is neither feasible nor necessary to create a weapon.) Plutonium comes from nuclear reactor waste, many stockpiles of which North Korea possesses. In other words, North Korea is attempting to make the trickier of the two devices. When arms control experts estimate North Korea to have a nuclear stockpile of 6-8 weapons, they are converting the likely amount of reactor waste that the country has produced into plutonium bombs of the World War II-era design.

When the device is built correctly (the earliest technology used a sphere with precisely timed explosions to press an array of small plutonium masses into one critical mass), the yield is 10-20 kilotons. It's unlikely that North Korea has skipped this step and gone on to more sophisticated designs that involve other elements (for instance, tritium) to generate a smaller yield from a smaller plutonium mass. China didn't. Its tests grew in size and sophistication in the 1980s and 1990s until Beijing induced seismic events that registered higher than 6 on the Richter scale. Then they stopped. Thus, I would rule out option number two.

Option number three also seems unlikely. The 2006 test was never proven to be fake, and more largely, there's no reason for Pyonyang to fake a test if it could at least attempt a real nuclear detonation. Nor has any world leader ever publicly called out North Korea for executing a failed or fake test in 2006; such a response probably would have pushed Pyongyang to attempt a second test much more quickly. It's the same reason why the United States and Europe--despite seismic data to the contrary--didn't call India's thermonuclear bluff in 1998; they wanted to reduce tensions, not raise them.

The last option--detonation in a cavity--makes no sense at all. The common assumption behind the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty is that countries would attempt to evade detection. But in the twenty-first century, what good is a nuclear weapon if it can't be used to openly check adversaries? Plus, a country doesn't even need a military useful device to do so. With cable news, the ability to detonate something fissionable does the trick--at least in a political sense.

So my guess is that North Korea tried and failed to get a simple plutonium bomb to detonate correctly. Make no mistake--an inefficient nuclear weapon is nothing to dismiss. Even at the low end of its estimated yield (2 kilotons), the May 25 test released as much or more explosive energy than the largest conventional-explosive air raids during World War II. But one should be mindful of the technical challenges North Korea still faces in carrying out the threats implied by its deliberate pairing of its explosive test with test missile launches.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

A big thanks to the 'Dear Leader' for taking the spotlight off Pakistan's expanding nuclear program.

I am guessing though that the fear mongers will be back in business soon.

 

[Neo]

Lessons from North Korea’s test​

North Korea has tested a nuclear bomb and launched three missiles it was under agreement not to. Europe and the United States, together with the states that try to deal with North Korea — Russia, China, South Korea, Japan — have raised alarm and an emergency UN Security Council session has been called. North Korean dictator Mr Kim Jong-Il has apparently done this to attract attention to his regime and block any plans that the negotiators may be setting on foot to restrain his last bout of hostility with a satellite launch in February.

The conduct of North Korea as a state is highly personalised in Mr Kim who has just got out of a serious illness at the age of 66 and may want to show his country’s 23 million people that he is still strong in his resolve to go on ruling. He has inherited his father’s mantle of an all-powerful leader presiding over a highly isolated state. Father Kim Il-Sung steered his country’s peculiar communist system through the shoals of the Cold War and big power rivalries in the region, postponing merger with a more economically successful South Korea from whom it had separated in 1948, leading to the Cold War-driven Korean War in 1950.

North Korea is a state that signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), then reneged on it, leaning on nuclear technology borrowed from the Soviet Union and China to avoid any resultant pressure for regime-change. The direction of North Korea was decided by the Kim family’s determination to carry on with its dynastic rule through the 20th century into the new millennium. When isolation brought economic crisis and the state failed to produce the food crops needed to sustain its population in the 1990s, the world saw famine as an opportunity to bring Mr Kim around. Mr Kim began talking about going back into the NPT fold and getting rid of his nuclear bombs but used the humanitarian aid given to him to bolster his crumbling war machine.

It is boring to recount how many times North Korea has reneged on agreements. Suffice it to say that in 2005 the world was greatly relieved when Mr Kim agreed to shut down his plutonium-producing reactor at Yongbyon, and was in the process of preparing to auction it off for a third time to America if it will put up the price. But in 2006 he was already going through his routine of doing things in defiance. He tested his first device that year. And when the world began to pay him attention the way he wanted, President Bush — who had included North Korea in his “axis of evil” formula — was on his way out after reversals suffered in Iraq. Now US President Barack Obama will have to deal with him, and if one relies on the record of the five states talking to North Korea, nothing much will emerge and Mr Kim will succeed in extending his dynasty by naming a successor from his myriad offspring.

But there is a bigger issue here too that goes beyond North Korea’s isolationist streak and it is the failure of the non-proliferation regime perched on a discriminatory treaty. The discrimination of the NPT was sought to be diluted by Article VI, which enjoined the five nuclear weapons states to move towards total disarmament. But that did not happen. Also, the United States, the world leader, has failed to apply the rules of interdiction uniformly. Within the US there is debate over starting a reliable replacement weapons programme. Some officials even want the US to resume testing. Meanwhile, the US created an exception for India, which struck another body blow to the non-proliferation regime.

As Mohamed ElBaradei, the outgoing director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, has made clear, the non-proliferation regime has to be made fair and the world has to be configured such that states do not consider that nuclear weapons potential can be the currency of power — or at least buy security against external aggression. Mr Obama talked about banning the bomb during his campaign. He has also spoken about tightening the non-proliferation regime. But as Mr ElBaradei has said, neither can be done until the US can take the lead and go for deep cuts before the 2010 NPT review conference. Any move against offending states like North Korea must have the moral weight of manifest measures by the bigger powers.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Hello Master Khan if you read i said there are weapons available truely to cause damage.. definitely you have weight in ur points timing precision location intelligence etc all are part of it and very important as you said thanks..but never the less if found will cause colossal damage to carrier fleet with right weapons..and it was a reply to an Indian guy who was imagining happily transporting his future carrier to destroy North Korea lol..plz understand..

 

[sergente rehan]

Hi,

You may have no understanding about the atrocities committed by the japanese upon the civilians and prisoners of wars---.

The japanese didnot understand the term defeat even though they were defeated once the u s navy took out the japanese navy in the pacific. The numbers of casualties that the americans were seeing just by conquering the small islands previously being occupied by the japanese---they realized that america will have to pay a terrible price if it had to end up conquering japan.

Such a high price would be paid by the americans in life and material that america even if it won the war---would be / maybe crippled itself for a long time to come due to a heavy loss of man and material. For that reason---the nukes were sanctioned against the japanese targets.

Japanese have strong traditions and strict moral codes. I know how they tourture the war prisoners but they treated quite in the same way their own japanese people too if they do anything wrong, i mean they have very strict punishments but this dosen't justify the treatment reserved towards the war prisoners. Their Code of Honor is everything for them and if they lost it then sucide is the only way left for them!(mostly japanese think in this way).

The first Kamikaze (sucide attacks) was also japenese during second world war for this U.S. really fears them because japanese seems to be fearless. Many years after the II world war ended numerous japanese soldiers were still fighting in diffrent parts of South-east Asia..i read somewhere about japanese soldiers still fighting in the forests of Birmania and people tried to convince them that the war was over and Japan has lost the war but they didn't accept this reality!

After Japnese attack on Pearl Harbour U.S. declared war to Japan, i remember the very provocative propaganda done by Japan against U.S. that i read on history books, atleast they had balls (sorry for the word) to go against U.S.

but the point is why U.S. had to kill all those civilians? the nukes attack was more like a symbol to demonstrate American power and it was sufficient for U.S. to drop a couple of those nukes on uninhabited islands like Albert Einstein also suggested them but this possibility was never considered by Americans.

The second thing why they have to drop 2 atom bombs on 2 diffrent cities on 2 diffrent days? it was enough when they nuked one city the other nuke could be also droped on any uninhabited island of Japan!

My point is that U.S. is the only country in the world which have ever used nukes againt any nation and have killed millions of innocent civilians (although they are still killing millions of innocent Muslims in these fake wars on terror) so how could they criticize anybody else? just took the example of the six U.S. Nuclear armed advance cruise missiles scandal back in 2007, B-52 bomber flying over U.S. armed with Nuclear weapons and nobody knows that and USAF justifying all this by just saying that was a mistake! so how dare they criticize Pakistan Nuclear Arsenal security after all this mess? what could be happend if any other Nuclear power like Pakistan or China doing such thing?? U.S. are never fair with us or other Muslim countries and obviously with those who goes against their plans...all their democracy is just (like india)

I still support NK and Iran nuclear program and they have every right to have it!