North East Asian Union? Exploring the potential of an NEA integration

[William Hung]

Kim's family is one of the obstacles for this, so maybe another 20 years before talking about other integration besides economy.

Without the consent of the other 4 parties out of 6 parties talks, Koran can not be unified either by North or South. To make China and Japan all agree on this, NEAU is the only framework that both counties would not see treat to themselves in the future.

I have been refraining from posting in this thread because this NEAU dream is none of my business. But I’m itching to know, amongst all these sweet talks between NEA members in this thread, will you guys be able to put words into actions?

Here is the first step and test: are you all willing to rename this thread:

Diaoyu Islands News and Updates

rename it from “Diaoyu islands news and updates” into “Diaoyu-Senkaku islands news and updates” as a sign of sensitivity and understanding between Japanese-Chinese members, because you know, if you want this NEAU to become a reality, you would need to foster in the spirit of respect, understanding and sensitivity towards the Japanese party in the Diaoyu-Senkaku dispute. So instead of just labelling it as “Diaoyu islands...” thread, rename it as “Diaoyu-Senkaku islands..” thread to prove to the other Japanese forum members/lurkers and other readers that you guys are really serious about your “union” talk here and that Chinese members here are willing to be sensitive towards the Japanese about the Diaoyudao dispute and for the sake of fostering friendship and sensitivity between Chinese-Japanese members/lurkers, Chinese members are willing to rename that thread as the “Diaoyu-Senkaku islands news and updates” thread as a sign of avoiding hostilities in this territorial issue.

Will all of you guys here be able to accept that? Or are you just going to say, “no thanks, leave it labelled as the Diaoyu islands thread, that’s our Chinese territory, we are in the right, the Japanese are in the wrong, if they think that thread’s name is unfair, well too bad...”

If you guys can’t agree to rename that thread as “Diaoyu-Senkaku islands...” , then it means that you guys can’t really practice what you are preaching here, you can’t even make a small compromise in the Diaoyu dispute for the sake of fostering the spirit of friendship and sensitivity...and that is the reality, all the NEAU talk in this thread are then just empty words, NEAU is just a dream.

So are you guys willing to prove me wrong and change the thread’s name?

@Nihonjin1051, @TaiShang, @Arryn, @Kiss_of_the_Dragon @Shotgunner51 @Tiqiu @Viva_Viet @Viet @waz @Slav Defence et al.

 

[comci]

Without US's "help", JP would still be a land of pirate. Without US's support in 1979, CN GDP per person would still merely around 178-200 usd per year.

Btw, u guys should show that u can survive in TPP which I believe that will make CN economy collapse in 2028 and JP economy soon will be under US control.

USA is very bad guys, VN war taught us that lesson. So, try to survive first, talk abt NEAU latter.

Without Nippon, USA would not even have militairy base in East Asia for her sneaky CIA covert operation which aim to subject the stubborn east asians. Without Nippon, USA could not enjoy the cheap products made in Nippon in the last half of the 20th century. Without Nippon, american kids would not know the concept of video games consoles like NES, Super Nintendo, Nintendo Wii and Sony playstation. Microsoft would not even been able to make video game console like Xbox( and making huge profits) and instead would only focus on personal computer software and nothing else.

Without USA support under the Nixon and Clinton regime, China will still find her way to make herself rich. Trade skill is ingrained in han chinese's soul, see the Silk road as past example. Without China, USA billionaires list on Forbes would shrinks fast. Its Quid pro Quo. and not as you assume zero sum game. It must be nice to view the world in black and white.

You keep repeating China economy would collapse in the future, to be precisely in 2028. My i asked based on what factors China would collapsed? Let me guess, you based your theory on Fox news, CNN, New york times, prominent member of think tank like Gordon Chang and other troll journals? well, good luck with your prediction. China is having economic difficulties because she switch her economic policy from export oriented to martket oriented. Not many countries have the courages or even succeed in this challenge. China knows its hard and difficult, but with 3 trillion as reserve, it will happens whether you like it or not. When China succeed this challenge, well China is basically almost self sufficient. It might want to raise Great Wall 3.0 to shield the middle kingdom from physically and mentally troubles outside her borders. BTW Great Wall 2.0= The Great Firewall, part of the Golden Shield project.

 

[Viva_Viet]

I have been refraining from posting in this thread because this NEAU dream is none of my business. But I’m itching to know, amongst all these sweet talks between NEA members in this thread, will you guys be able to put words into actions?

Here is the first step and test: are you all willing to rename this thread:

Diaoyu Islands News and Updates

rename it from “Diaoyu islands news and updates” into “Diaoyu-Senkaku islands news and updates” as a sign of sensitivity and understanding between Japanese-Chinese members, because you know, if you want this NEAU to become a reality, you would need to foster in the spirit of respect, understanding and sensitivity towards the Japanese party in the Diaoyu-Senkaku dispute. So instead of just labelling it as “Diaoyu islands...” thread, rename it as “Diaoyu-Senkaku islands..” thread to prove to the other Japanese forum members/lurkers and other readers that you guys are really serious about your “union” talk here and that Chinese members here are willing to be sensitive towards the Japanese about the Diaoyudao dispute and for the sake of fostering friendship and sensitivity between Chinese-Japanese members/lurkers, Chinese members are willing to rename that thread as the “Diaoyu-Senkaku islands news and updates” thread as a sign of avoiding hostilities in this territorial issue.

Will all of you guys here be able to accept that? Or are you just going to say, “no thanks, leave it labelled as the Diaoyu islands thread, that’s our Chinese territory, we are in the right, the Japanese are in the wrong, if they think that thread’s name is unfair, well too bad...”

If you guys can’t agree to rename that thread as “Diaoyu-Senkaku islands...” , then it means that you guys can’t really practice what you are preaching here, you can’t even make a small compromise in the Diaoyu dispute for the sake of fostering the spirit of friendship and sensitivity...and that is the reality, all the NEAU talk in this thread are then just empty words, NEAU is just a dream.

So are you guys willing to prove me wrong and change the thread’s name?

@Nihonjin1051, @TaiShang, @Arryn, @Kiss_of_the_Dragon @Shotgunner51 @Tiqiu @Viva_Viet @Viet @waz @Slav Defence et al.

I think Senkaku is not a big problem, CN could cede a big territory to Myanmar, so losing few rocks on the sea will not make Cnese get angry.

The big problem is that JP-SK r under control of US capitalist. SK alone is under theart of Kim's invasion in nuke attack. So there is No way for SK to unite wt China cos Great leader Kim will Nuke Beijing, too

You keep repeating China economy would collapse in the future, to be precisely in 2028. My i asked based on what factors China would collapsed? Let me guess, you based your theory on Fox news, CNN, New york times, prominent member of think tank like Gordon Chang and other troll journals? well, good luck with your prediction. China is having economic difficulties because she switch her economic policy from export oriented to martket oriented. Not many countries have the courages or even succeed in this challenge. China knows its hard and difficult, but with 3 trillion as reserve, it will happens whether you like it or not. When China succeed this challenge, well China is basically almost self sufficient. It might want to raise Great Wall 3.0 to shield the middle kingdom from physically and mentally troubles outside her borders. BTW Great Wall 2.0= The Great Firewall, part of the Golden Shield project.

In Jan,2015,we also predicted that RMB will fall to half in 2024, 6 years after TPP come out in 2018.

RMB has lost 5-6 % at the end of last year , so do you think 45-50% lost is feasible ??

 

[William Hung]

I think Senkaku is not a big problem, CN could cede a big territory to Myanmar, so losing few rocks on the sea will not make Cnese get angry.

The big problem is that JP-SK r under control of US capitalist. SK alone is under theart of Kim's invasion in nuke attack. So there is No way for SK to unite wt China cos Great leader Kim will Nuke Beijing, too

Yeah I agree that the Diaoyu-Senkaku is not a big problem at all. Whether those rocks fall into Chinese hands or Japanese hands, or get sunk into the ocean, will not really change anything much.

But that is exactly the reason why I am asking the NEA members in this thread: are they willing to make a very small compromise over a very minor issue (disputes over some rocks) and be willing to rename the “Diaoyu Islands News ” thread into the “Diaoyu-Senkaku Islands News”?

Or will they not be able to put their words into actions (even just a very very minor action like renaming that thread). If they can’t, then it means their NEAU discussions are just empty talk, a dream.

I’ll wait for them to respond.

 

[Dungeness]

I feel current patriots in Viet Nam have the whimsical passions of Bao Dai and Ngo Din Diem and not the fortitude of Ho Chi Minh and Vo Nguyen Giap...



Precisely, in fact before US entered the TPP dialogue, all partners were able to discuss and share views on proper "policies". After the US used liberty to enter the dialogue, the first thing they did was to re-write policies and most of these were pro-American.

This is one of the reasons why, if you look at TPP proceedings, Japan has blocked or resisted most American demands. Even with the recent 'agreement', there are still major disagreements between Tokyo and Washington.

"If we don't write the rules ... We will be shut out—American businesses and American agriculture. That will mean a loss of U.S. jobs." —President Obama on the need for America to lead on trade

Some people just think like plankton, dream of annexing sub Mekong to counter China through TPP. What you can do with them?

 

[Aepsilons]

What you can do with them?

.....しぬまでつぶします

(Let us squeeze them with love)

"If we don't write the rules ... We will be shut out—American businesses and American agriculture. That will mean a loss of U.S. jobs." —President Obama on the need for America to lead on trade

Precisely.

 

[William Hung]

"If we don't write the rules ... We will be shut out—American businesses and American agriculture. That will mean a loss of U.S. jobs." —President Obama on the need for America to lead on trade

Some people just think like plankton, dream of annexing sub Mekong to counter China through TPP. What you can do with them?

@Dungeness what do you think of my suggestion in post #227 to change the name of the “Diaoyu Islands News and Updates” thread into “Diaoyu-Senkaku Islands News and Updates”?

I’m getting the feeling that no Chinese NEAU advocates in this thread will have any courage to reply to it.

 

[Dungeness]

@Dungeness what do you think of my suggestion in post #227 to change the name of the “Diaoyu Islands News and Updates” thread into “Diaoyu-Senkaku Islands News and Updates”?

I’m getting the feeling that no Chinese NEAU advocates in this thread will have any courage to reply to it.

I am not for this NEAU idea, and I don't think I will witness in my life time.

 

[comci]

try to find new market(s) ??? As u said"Talk is cheap, action speaks louder".

Dont forget EU is under US's control,too. EU just put a tariff on CN steel, and EU will put more tariff on CN products when US tell her to do that.

Btw: I think an NEAU wont happen in abt 10 year due to TPP. What is your opinion ?? When NEAU happen?? If more than 10 years, then its just a waste to talk abt it now.

EU is under USA' control? What lead you to think like this? based on what? EU is big, i mean its really big, supported with independant institutions within the EU to handle the evey day giant tasks. Some EU members might want to obey and do what USA says but it still based on their country independent foreign policy and not based on EU core policy. Why do you think Donald Rumsfeld was frustrated when core EU members didnt want to join his NATO adventure in Iraq? EU could easily surpass the USA on all fronts if some member just stop being the henchmen of USA. USA wet dream is to see the EU disappear. China on the other hand, support the EU because China see the EU as another obstacle for the USA.

The fact that EU put tariff on China's steel, doesnt mean that USA said so to EU. EU did it because China violate the EU core interest. What you seemed not to understand is that EU core policy=economic activity within the EU. Violation the harmonisation of EU the internal market, will end up the concerning state with punitive action imposed by the European Court of Justice. See Dillenkofer-case and Frankovich-case.

It took the west european countries about 50 years to lay the foundation of the nowadays EU. Do do think 10 years is too long? To create such institution, It will take many negotiations, bounding core rules, agreements(which changes with each new government) etc. It is foolish to speed up the process for the establishment of this kind of organization. It might crumble in the first year by the heavy weights of external threats.

After Jean Monnet died, his idea of cooperation between Europeas States was still alive and kicking. The result of the EU is not juist the act of 1 man. 1 man offered the idea, many same minded men accomplish this EU dream. Anno 2016, we still see the result of this dream.
I got the feeling if the realization of Greater East Asia, doesnt happen in 10 years in your lifetime, you presume its better to forget it. With such kind of attitude you wont go anywhere. I and others like me are happy to explore the possibility of the Greater East Asia. It doesnt bother me at all not to see the fruition of this organization in my life time. I just pass the torch to the next generation and happy to see this concept alive and kicking.

 

[Aepsilons]

@Dungeness what do you think of my suggestion in post #227 to change the name of the “Diaoyu Islands News and Updates” thread into “Diaoyu-Senkaku Islands News and Updates”?

I’m getting the feeling that no Chinese NEAU advocates in this thread will have any courage to reply to it.

I think that the Chinese Patriots and I have an honor code of leaving it as is and shelving this issue. We have decided to focus more on progress related issues. We all understand the nature of nationalism as it pertains to Great East Asian political economy and that we prefer to focus on issues that bring cohesion and not in division.

So, let us move on.

EU is under USA' control? What lead you to think like this? based on what? EU is big, i mean its really big, supported with independant institutions within the EU to handle the evey day giant tasks. Some EU members might want to obey and do what USA says but it still based on their country independent foreign policy and not based on EU core policy. Why do you think Donald Rumsfeld was frustrated when core EU members didnt want to join his NATO adventure in Iraq? EU could easily surpass the USA on all fronts if some member just stop being the henchmen of USA. USA wet dream is to see the EU disappear. China on the other hand, support the EU because China see the EU as another obstacle for the USA.

The fact that EU put tariff on China's steel, doesnt mean that USA said so to EU. EU did it because China violate the EU core interest. What you seemed not to understand is that EU core policy=economic activity within the EU. Violation the harmonisation of EU the internal market, will end up the concerning state with punitive action imposed by the European Court of Justice. See Dillenkofer-case and Frankovich-case.

It took the west european countries about 50 years to lay the foundation of the nowadays EU. Do do think 10 years is too long? To create such institution, It will take many negotiations, bounding core rules, agreements(which changes with each new government) etc. It is foolish to speed up the process for the establishment of this kind of organization. It might crumble in the first year by the heavy weights of external threats.

After Jean Monnet died, his idea of cooperation between Europeas States was still alive and kicking. The result of the EU is not juist the act of 1 man. 1 man offered the idea, many same minded men accomplish this EU dream. Anno 2016, we still see the result of this dream.
I got the feeling if the realization of Greater East Asia, doesnt happen in 10 years in your lifetime, you presume its better to forget it. With such kind of attitude you wont go anywhere. I and others like me are happy to explore the possibility of the Greater East Asia. It doesnt bother me at all not to see the fruition of this organization in my life time. I just pass the torch to the next generation and happy to see this concept alive and kicking.

I agree that we , of this generation, have a responsibility to our descendants to build an environment conducive for regional integration. We know that we are finite, but it is our collective responsibility to provide the foundation. To build upon what our fathers and grandfathers have done and accomplished.

 

[Tiqiu]

I have been refraining from posting in this thread because this NEAU dream is none of my business. But I’m itching to know, amongst all these sweet talks between NEA members in this thread, will you guys be able to put words into actions?

Here is the first step and test: are you all willing to rename this thread:

Diaoyu Islands News and Updates

rename it from “Diaoyu islands news and updates” into “Diaoyu-Senkaku islands news and updates” as a sign of sensitivity and understanding between Japanese-Chinese members, because you know, if you want this NEAU to become a reality, you would need to foster in the spirit of respect, understanding and sensitivity towards the Japanese party in the Diaoyu-Senkaku dispute. So instead of just labelling it as “Diaoyu islands...” thread, rename it as “Diaoyu-Senkaku islands..” thread to prove to the other Japanese forum members/lurkers and other readers that you guys are really serious about your “union” talk here and that Chinese members here are willing to be sensitive towards the Japanese about the Diaoyudao dispute and for the sake of fostering friendship and sensitivity between Chinese-Japanese members/lurkers, Chinese members are willing to rename that thread as the “Diaoyu-Senkaku islands news and updates” thread as a sign of avoiding hostilities in this territorial issue.

Will all of you guys here be able to accept that? Or are you just going to say, “no thanks, leave it labelled as the Diaoyu islands thread, that’s our Chinese territory, we are in the right, the Japanese are in the wrong, if they think that thread’s name is unfair, well too bad...”

If you guys can’t agree to rename that thread as “Diaoyu-Senkaku islands...” , then it means that you guys can’t really practice what you are preaching here, you can’t even make a small compromise in the Diaoyu dispute for the sake of fostering the spirit of friendship and sensitivity...and that is the reality, all the NEAU talk in this thread are then just empty words, NEAU is just a dream.

So are you guys willing to prove me wrong and change the thread’s name?

@Nihonjin1051, @TaiShang, @Arryn, @Kiss_of_the_Dragon @Shotgunner51 @Tiqiu @Viva_Viet @Viet @waz @Slav Defence et al.

People often said once a can of worms is opened, the only way to put those worms back is to find a larger can.

At present, there is no room for both China and Japan conceding on this issue since the nationalism is running high in both countries. In the absence of a greater goal, both will continue do what they are doing, but never start an Asians v Asians war as some Americans would dream of. However in the future once both reach consensus that the US is the NO.1 obstacle for their NATIONAL INTEREST according to their respective goal, the nationalism of both which put us at odds in the past will realign us into a UNITED FRONT under a common goal:ASIAN CENTURY.

Perhaps the crisis of these rocks also presents as an opportunity for us to explore a new path for our future. Under NEAU, the sovereign issue of these rocks becomes no issue, while the benefit is shared amongst all.

Plus a peaceful resolution of the issues of this type can give us moral ground to lead the world as one of the polar. After all our east philosophy is about conquering the minds of people, not the body by force.

So I hope the US continue its Re-balancing Asia to contain China, and squeeze Japan in the same time, to the point that both countries can see that the treat the US is imposed is the LARGER CAN.

 

[Viva_Viet]

EU is under USA' control? What lead you to think like this? based on what? EU is big, i mean its really big, supported with independant institutions within the EU to handle the evey day giant tasks. Some EU members might want to obey and do what USA says but it still based on their country independent foreign policy and not based on EU core policy. Why do you think Donald Rumsfeld was frustrated when core EU members didnt want to join his NATO adventure in Iraq? EU could easily surpass the USA on all fronts if some member just stop being the henchmen of USA. USA wet dream is to see the EU disappear. China on the other hand, support the EU because China see the EU as another obstacle for the USA.

The fact that EU put tariff on China's steel, doesnt mean that USA said so to EU. EU did it because China violate the EU core interest. What you seemed not to understand is that EU core policy=economic activity within the EU. Violation the harmonisation of EU the internal market, will end up the concerning state with punitive action imposed by the European Court of Justice. See Dillenkofer-case and Frankovich-case.

It took the west european countries about 50 years to lay the foundation of the nowadays EU. Do do think 10 years is too long? To create such institution, It will take many negotiations, bounding core rules, agreements(which changes with each new government) etc. It is foolish to speed up the process for the establishment of this kind of organization. It might crumble in the first year by the heavy weights of external threats.

After Jean Monnet died, his idea of cooperation between Europeas States was still alive and kicking. The result of the EU is not juist the act of 1 man. 1 man offered the idea, many same minded men accomplish this EU dream. Anno 2016, we still see the result of this dream.
I got the feeling if the realization of Greater East Asia, doesnt happen in 10 years in your lifetime, you presume its better to forget it. With such kind of attitude you wont go anywhere. I and others like me are happy to explore the possibility of the Greater East Asia. It doesnt bother me at all not to see the fruition of this organization in my life time. I just pass the torch to the next generation and happy to see this concept alive and kicking.

Okay, I hope u agree that TPP is for containing CN economy. then do u think TPP will be ratiffied in 2018 ?? After 06 years TPP kick in (2024) do u think RMB will fall to half as Vnese predicted in Jan,2015 due to CN export market shrink ??

 

[Tiqiu]

Okay, I hope u agree that TPP is for containing CN economy. then do u think TPP will be ratiffied in 2018 ?? After 06 years TPP kick in (2024) do u think RMB will fall to half as Vnese predicted in Jan,2015 due to CN export market shrink ??

The international reality is no body cares about your prediction,you are not even in the G20.

 

[Viva_Viet]

The international reality is no body cares about your prediction,you are not even in the G20.

Okay, so no need to quote what I say here. Keep making yourself happy with falling RMB. I hope you dont lose your job yet when RMB still falling with CN economy keep shrinking

 

[William Hung]

At present, there is no room for both China and Japan conceding on this issue since the nationalism is running high in both countries. In the absence of a greater goal, both will continue do what they...

I think that the Chinese Patriots and I have an honor code of leaving it as is and shelving this issue. We have decided to focus more on progress related issues. We all understand the nature of nationalism as it pertains to Great East Asian political economy and that we prefer to focus on issues that bring cohesion and not in division.

Yes @Tiqiu I agree with you that at this moment, nationalism is too high in both Japan and China for both parties to make any kind of concession or compromise with respect to the Diaoyu-Senkaku dispute. And I think it is this nationalism that will be an obstacle for the NEAU dream.

But I humbly disagree with @Nihonjin1051 that the members here has agreed on “shelving” the Diaoyu-Senkaku dispute in order to focus on “more progress related issues”.

My intuition is that you guys are not “shelving” this issues but are just merely “hiding” your nationalism. I’m not getting any affirmative response for my suggestion and I sense that Chinese members in this thread will not be willing to rename that thread like I suggested due to their nationalism.

And it is this kind of nationalism that will make this NEAU discussions empty. If you are too nationalistic to make a compromise or concession on a minor issue (name of a thread) over a minor dispute (territorial claims over some rocks), then these NEAU discussions are just empty talks. And my last point is this, your willingness or unwillingness to have that thread renamed will not be the fault of the US. So, from my point of view, the problem that makes this NEAU unrealistic is not the US, but nationalism within the JP and CN population. So its kind of strange to me to read how you guys said the US is the main obstacle. At the very least, the US is not the obstacle in getting that thread renamed is it? So what is that obstacle? As I have explained, you guys in this thread probably possess that nationalism, but are just hiding it.......unless... I see you guys be willing to have that thread renamed like I’ve suggested.