Norinco VT-4 MBT

[Asian.Century]

Lol.. then JF-17 supposed to be the most superior plane because of the same reason?
Cut the nationalistic scrap and give some logical reason.

What if u think, Chinese all equipment and everything is so superior why no other country bought from you and y the west calls Chinese as copied and inferior.... How many J10s with AESA have you SOLD yet, the supposed to be the most superior plane and even better than FC-1s ? y Pakistan does not buy J10s or J31 stealth jets ? lol.

Lets be clear, Am not under estimating Chinese Indigenous Work, but saying that if ever, ever Pakistan Next MBT is VT4 then it will not all be Chinese equipment , it would mostly be Western, South African, Ukrainian, Turkish and largely made in Pakistan parts and systems.

Pakistanis exactly know what is really good stuff which Chinese have/make/it offers as export and what it needs to do, to totally customise for its own terrain, environment and battle plans...is that logic enough.

If mbt3000/vt4 fails tests as the next generation Al Haider tank....it might be some Western, Ukrainian or South Korean Tank, which Pakistan is also being currently tested, as a future Joint Venture. VT4/mbt3000 / type 99 needs to be much better; a generation ahead of MBT 2000 / AK, which it may or may not be currently.

 

[Beast]

What if Chinese all equipment and everything is so superior why no other country bought from you and y the west calls Chinese as copied and inferior...LoL. How many J10 have you SOLD yet, the supposed to more superior than JF17 ? lol.

Lets be clear, Am not under estimating Chinese, but saying that if ever, ever Pakistan Next MBT is VT4 then it will not all be Chinese equipment , it would mostly be Western, South African, Ukrainian, Turkish and largely made in Pakistan parts and systems.

Pakistanis exactly know what is really good stuff which Chinese have/make and what it needs to totally customise for its own terrain, environment and battle plans...is that logic enough.

Personally I doubt mbt3000/vt4 is the next generation Al Haider tank....it might some western tank or South Korean which Pakistan is also currently testing, as Joint Venture. VT4/mbt3000 / type 99 needs to be much better; a generation ahead of MBT 2000, which it may or maynot be.

Lol.. another ill inform member. Checkout the Chinese weapon export to foreign countries Thread and see how much Chinese weapon have we export. Many of our weapon export are not covered becos Chinese always keep low profile on those export to reduce criticism from west. Even our PL-45 SPH to Algeria and VT-2 MBT export to Morocco are uncovered by Jane defense news and not reported by any Chinese media.

As for JF-17,it's mainly a Pakistan project, which we just play along with Pakistan. We are not concern whether it gets export or not. Our main fighter export is L-15 and has sold to Venezuela and Zambia.

J-10 has never been offer for export except PAF but given your limited budget. It has been stalled.

 

[Beast]

i think u are ill, ill informed
link: China Officially Offers Pakistan J-10 Variant
Although am pretty confident that PAF does not need J10s as it is still not up to its specifications and it is very happy with JF-17 block I to II and III upgrades.
Anyway what about other countries, any other country wants to buy J10s, J11s or J31s, anyone yet ?
Second, I need how many billion dollars Chinese export, last I heard despite Indian and West Pak had exports around $400m-$0.5 billion. You can keep the profile low per ur wishes.
-: Lets get back to the topic in hand about the new VT4/MBT 3000 Tank in export market.

Did you read my post properly? I say j-10 is not for export except PAF. So your point?

China military export is rank 3rd after USA and Russia. And the report is an independent survey from Sweden body. This report is quite widely reported. I am surprised you are not aware of it.

 

[Asian.Century]

@Beast I got your point, thanks !!!

But I Gotta wonder about the Chinese mindset though. They build a high tech main battle tank, basic armour, scaled down version and make the controls look like some cheap plastic toy.

[视频]我国主战坦克跻身世界先进水平_新闻台_中国网络电视台

 

[atlantis_cn]

Lol.. another ill inform member. Checkout the Chinese weapon export to foreign countries Thread and see how much Chinese weapon have we export. Many of our weapon export are not covered becos Chinese always keep low profile on those export to reduce criticism from west. Even our PL-45 SPH to Algeria and VT-2 MBT export to Morocco are uncovered by Jane defense news and not reported by any Chinese media.

As for JF-17,it's mainly a Pakistan project, which we just play along with Pakistan. We are not concern whether it gets export or not. Our main fighter export is L-15 and has sold to Venezuela and Zambia.

J-10 has never been offer for export except PAF but given your limited budget. It has been stalled.

"play along with Pakistan"? How retard are you? Please stop showing off your arrogance which brings shame to every Chinese member here.

 

[Beast]

@Beast I got your point, thanks !!!

But I Gotta wonder about the Chinese mindset though. They build a high tech main battle tank, basic armour, scaled down version and make the controls look like some cheap plastic toy.

[视频]我国主战坦克跻身世界先进水平_新闻台_中国网络电视台

View attachment 51639

Cheap plastic toy? That control is from easier to control than standard track control layout. Inside the tank, is all digitised.

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

And at least Chinese modern mbt stabilizer and fire control is at least one generation ahead of Russia T-72.

 

[Beast]

"play along with Pakistan"? How retard are you? Please stop showing off your arrogance which brings shame to every Chinese member here.

Sometime reality is hard to accept. JF-17 spec in the first place is already a mistake. You say I am retarded then how many JF-17 has been be exported besides Pakistan after induction for 5 years? Who's the retard?

 

[Asian.Century]

Sometime reality is hard to accept. JF-17 spec in the first place is already a mistake. You say I am retarded then how many JF-17 has been be exported besides Pakistan after induction for 5 years? Who's the retard?

Let me tell you clearly. Pakistan is very happy with its JF17 Block I, Block II and eventually Block III upgrades. There is no chance it is going to leave that for another 15-20+ years.

Second point is export, mostly it is the Americans who have always stopped our sales prospect to the prospective countries and India comes at the second.

Neverthless, after 15+ years how many French Rafale jets it got export, almost everyone says it is a failed project, which is wrong too. Let me come to Chinese Air force if J10 is not for sale, then what aircrafts for sale, J11s...how many J11s it got sold ??

Thirdly, China and Pakistan are one and the same thing, as we think like, like Brothers...so Chinese/Pakistan sales are not as counted as really a export order, unless it is necessary to make ones country lift its sales status, normally world doesnot count it as a customer-business relationship too.

lastly, customers still want improvements on Jf17s like the AESA radar, and other improved parts, countries definately want a replacement in FUTURE, so donot worry about that, and remember currently capacity is low, Pakistan and Chinese factories are not even able to full fill PAF orders yet, talk abt exporting.

lets get back to mbt 3000 / vt4 possible future Al Haider tank here. ok.

 

[Beast]

Let me tell you clearly. Pakistan is very happy with its JF17 Block I, Block II and eventually Block III upgrades. There is no chance it is going to leave that for another 15-20+ years.

Second point is export, mostly it is the Americans who have always stopped our sales prospect to the prospective countries and India comes at the second.

Neverthless, after 15+ years how many French Rafale jets it got export, almost everyone says it is a failed project, which is wrong too. Let me come to Chinese Air force if J10 is not for sale, then what aircrafts for sale, J11s...how many J11s it got sold ??

Thirdly, China and Pakistan are one and the same thing, as we think like, like Brothers...so Chinese/Pakistan sales are not as counted as really a export order, unless it is necessary to make ones country lift its sales status, normally world doesnot count it as a customer-business relationship too.

lastly, customers still want improvements on Jf17s like the AESA radar, and other improved parts, countries definately want a replacement, so donot worry about that, and remember currently capacity is low, Pakistan and Chinese factories are not even able to full fill PAF orders yet, talk abt exporting.

J-11 is not for export. Who told you that J-11 which is a licenses copy of su-27 is allowed for export? We have a gentle agreement with Russia bottom not to export any of our J-16,J-15 and J-11b aircraft.

I never say JF-17 is a failure for PAF but China is not very supportive for it to export becos we need to share profit with Pakistan. L-15 Will be the main fighter jet for our export product as an affordable fighter/trainer and 100 percent profit goes to China. With cheap loan and backing from China, it easily got deal from Venezuela and Sainsbury more to come evenings not debut for PLAAF.

 

[Asian.Century]

Cheap plastic toy? That control is from easier to control than standard track control layout. Inside the tank, is all digitised.


And at least Chinese modern mbt stabilizer and fire control is at least one generation ahead of Russia T-72.

Yes I didnot say control is easier or not, but the look of it do look like a toy, no bad intend here.

Secondly, One of the problem areas earlier of similar VT1A and VT2(T-96) and especially MBT2000 understood to be the chassis, especially the Chinese-designed and -built power pack as it also led to T-90II NORINCO failed project abandonment, which finally Pakistan had to completely buy the license and from near scratch it started building into Al Khalid MBT now. This whole T-90II programme has been subjected to a number of delays, especially the development of the MBT 2000.

The new high tech, MBT 3000 with Chinese power pack , and Chinese gun and armour are again a problem especially pakistan.

When you talk about Chinese modern stabilizer, a generation ahead of Russian T-7 it is quite a funny statement, nevertheless, a generation ahead will only take you to T80 or a max T-90 series, while Pakistan is now looking at T99A series and other world MBTs as replacement to its most oldest fleet of T-69,T59 etc etc.

last but not the least, older Chinese tanks had the problem of rust, hope the new MBT 3000 has resolved the problem of rust !!!

Also not to forget, Chinese smoke filled ENGINES are a definite no for Pakistan, hence it went with reliable and much improved Ukrainian UT6G-2 Engines.

I never say JF-17 is a failure for PAF but China is not very supportive for it to export becos we need to share profit with Pakistan. L-15 Will be the main fighter jet for our export product as an affordable fighter/trainer and 100 percent profit goes to China.

Really donot understand such defensive, closed mindset of chinese...y would China not want to sell its top line fighter aircrafts, rather just a trainer jet which u call it is a the most super fighter jet L-15 :

And If China is NOT supportive of JF17 then why would it invested $500 million in development. come on you can do better than this, get some proper logic.

 

[Beast]

Yes I didnot say control is easier or not, but the look of it do look like a toy, no bad intend here.

Secondly, One of the problem areas earlier of similar VT1A and VT2(T-96) and especially MBT2000 understood to be the chassis, especially the Chinese-designed and -built power pack as it also led to T-90II NORINCO failed project abandonment, which finally Pakistan had to completely buy the license and from near scratch it started building into Al Khalid MBT now. This whole T-90II programme has been subjected to a number of delays, especially the development of the MBT 2000.

The new high tech, MBT 3000 with Chinese power pack , and Chinese gun are again a problem for export customers especially pakistan.

When you talk about Chinese modern stabilizer, a generation ahead of Russian T-7 it is quite a funny statement, nevertheless, a generation ahead will only take you to T80 or a max T-90 series, while Pakistan is now looking at T99A series and other world MBTs as replacement to its most oldest fleet of T-69,T59 etc etc.

last but not the least, older Chinese tanks had the problem of rust, hope the new MBT 3000 has resolved the problem of rust !!!



Really donot understand such defensive, closed mindset of chinese...y would China not want to sell its top line fighter aircrafts, rather just a tainer jet which u call a fighter jet L-15: come on you can do better than this.

View attachment 51782

Clearly , you do understand type96a is the most low end modern tank mass equipped PLA. Yet the stabilizer is ahead of Russia mass equipped T-72mbt. So you can imagine what will be our high end Type99A2 uses. It will be even a step ahead of our type96a.

For China to export high end aircraft. The market is still not ripe yet. Most countries will lots of money will buy US aircraft. Due to stronger allies and tradition. That's why L-15 is an Jack of all trade with good price for countries with limited budget. It need not be the best But remain affordable to them. So that they will not blow up their budget and fancy aircraft grounded due to lack of funds like Greece air force.

And we do not need to export our best. Becos,we do not really in need of money.

 

[Pak_Sher]

Did you read my post properly? I say j-10 is not for export except PAF. So your point?

China military export is rank 3rd after USA and Russia. And the report is an independent survey from Sweden body. This report is quite widely reported. I am surprised you are not aware of it.

Chinese Military hardware has come a long way in quality and reliability. J10 will be a good edition for the PAF.

 

[Infra_Man99]

Looks could be deceiving. A BMW sedan or Lexus SUV has a much more stylish interior, but I'm guessing the Chinese tank's interior is a lot tougher.

 

[Zarvan]

What if u think, Chinese all equipment and everything is so superior why no other country bought from you and y the west calls Chinese as copied and inferior.... How many J10s with AESA have you SOLD yet, the supposed to be the most superior plane and even better than FC-1s ? y Pakistan does not buy J10s or J31 stealth jets ? lol.

Lets be clear, Am not under estimating Chinese Indigenous Work, but saying that if ever, ever Pakistan Next MBT is VT4 then it will not all be Chinese equipment , it would mostly be Western, South African, Ukrainian, Turkish and largely made in Pakistan parts and systems.

Pakistanis exactly know what is really good stuff which Chinese have/make/it offers as export and what it needs to do, to totally customise for its own terrain, environment and battle plans...is that logic enough.

If mbt3000/vt4 fails tests as the next generation Al Haider tank....it might be some Western, Ukrainian or South Korean Tank, which Pakistan is also being currently tested, as a future Joint Venture. VT4/mbt3000 / type 99 needs to be much better; a generation ahead of MBT 2000 / AK, which it may or may not be currently.

Mr we are not buying J-10 because we are short off money secondly many countries have bought Chinese equippment and west most off the times lie

 

[帅的一匹]

MBT3000 is for making money from 狗大户。