Nobody Wants to talk of peace solutions yet!!!

[peacenik79]

This is my first post on this forum. I have been reading it for the past week or so off and on and I find so much hatred and war mongering. I think lots of people here just do'nt understand how horrible war actually is.

Well, although a lot has been spoken of military comparisons etc., most of which is biased based on which country you are from. Nobody has spoken on concrete path to bring down current tensions and working towards long term peace between India and Pakistan.

The biggest problem right now is that the people of both India and Pakistan are highly emotional and do not know how to control it and let it cloud their rational thoughts. There was a Pakistani author in Dawn newspaper 'Irfan Hussein' who said it best when he stated that when nationalism runs high, logic goes out of the window. The coverage of media in both India and Pakistan is an example of this phenomenon.

I think a squence of actions in the following order would work in terms of ensuring long term peace and development in the subcontinent.

1. Let the current temperatures cool down for a month or so. Avoid escalatory actions or statements on both sides.

2. Indian leaders should work to avoid jingoism in statements and find way to moderate their response after terrorist attacks. War is not a solution against pakistan because it will not solve the problem of terrorism. Even if they acheive military victory, terrorism will only likely increase because generations of Pakistanis have been brought up on anti-indian propaganda and their thinking in general is " We may go down, but we will take you down with us"

3. Pakistan should come out of denial and conspiracy theory mode and if there is any evidence that the captured terrorist is Pakistani (and the government for sure already knows the answer to this I think) then accept it and use it as a pretext to go hard after the LET, JUD, etc. and try to systematically destroy them. This process will be long and difficult and extremely painful but if peace is the goal, there is no alternative. In this process it may have to take on powerful elements in the military-intelligence circles but I think it is possible to outmanouvre them if strength of concivtion is there from Zardari and co.

4. India should marginalise the extremist reactionary Hindutva forces like Shiv Sena, Bajrang Dal, etc. politically. These guys only in the last 20 years or so have gained any kind of traction in Indian society. But their support base is still very thin. They are not military threats in the way that the Pak organisations above areyet, but if ledt unattended, they may morph into a problem just as bad as the Pakistani organisations above.

4. Above steps 3 and 4 will take a few years. In the meantime, both Pakistan and India should strengthen their internal security forces and work on intel sharing on a reciprocal basis to stop all major terror attacks in both countries. Also they must both develop their economies aggressively. For a few years if people on both sides get used to peace and economic development,the the constituence for peace will get much stronger.

5. Around 8-10 years down the line when the above process is complete, start talking and solving all mutual disputes. Any attempt to do so now will always be thwarted by extremist Pakistani and reactionary Hindutva forces.

If the above 4 steps take place, then the influence of these forces will be very much reduced and the atmosphere will be built up to ensure lasting peace talks.

I know that the lkelyhood of above things happening is not high given that Military Intelligence is an oxymoron and Pakistan is dominated still by military when it comes to external affairs and Indian public is still very immature and a significant portion of it is swayed by the foolish reactionary Hindutva forces.

But in time, I believe that the above will take place since I am an optimist.

 

[peacenik79]

I think that the reason there are no replies to my post is because it makes too much sense!!!!!

 

[Lockheed F-16]

Welcome to the forum, mate

Now, look, India doesn't want peace, Pakistan wants peace but it shouldn't been taken as our weakness

 

[yarmook]

I think that the reason there are no replies to my post is because it makes too much sense!!!!!

To be very blunt the only sense your post makes is your in between the lines propagating Indian version trying to play safe by inserting one or two words like Hindutva to show yourself neutral which by the look of your post does not prove so.

 

[Bane Blade]

peacenik79 there is too much history running between the 2 countries from even before the partition took place in an unbiased opinion I would have to say that if there is any solution it will have to be through conflict although all your points would be relevant to many situations this one I have to say is not where it will work.

 

[orion]

Welcome peacenik79.
Now if only our politicians had that approach! Post mumbai attacks if india had taken a mature approach eg as u stated instaed of a blame game...mayb right now it wuld have been a different story altogether.Oh well I hope sanity prevails!

 

[yarmook]

Welcome to the forum, mate

Now, look, India doesn't want peace, Pakistan wants peace but it shouldn't been taken as our weakness

Peace is only possible where two sides accept the existence of each other whereas India never accepted Pakistan and new found power and role has made India acting like bullying all other regional countries which isn’t going to contribute to peace.

 

[Lockheed F-16]

Peace is only possible where two sides accept the existence of each other whereas India never accepted Pakistan and new found power and role has made India acting like bullying all other regional countries which isn’t going to contribute to peace.

Exactly that's what I mean

 

[yarmook]

Exactly that's what I mean

Being too much Pakistan-centric, India tries to find blood on Pakistan's hand every time there is blast in India while being oblivious of homegrown problems at the same time makes it blind to neutral probe in these cases.
This attitude is of India only adds to its hostility in region and to cement this hostility Indian leaders let go no opportunity to contribute to war mongering. Already walking on a tight rope Pakistan can not show weakness to Indian jingoism

 

[peacenik79]

You guys are way too sceptical and scepticism if it is widespread can become a self fulfillng prophecy.

And I do not agree with the theory that India des not want the existence of Pakistan. In the current scenario, they cannot do anything about it anyway even if they wanted to because of nuclear weapons and because international community would not allow that to happen.

Why would my plan not work, if the willingness is there from the leaders on both sides?

Do you have a more realistic workable solution for peace, something which would be acceptable to both India and Pakistan.

 

[Lockheed F-16]

Yes, I have. RAW should stop funding terrorism in PAK.

 

[peacenik79]

Being too much Pakistan-centric, India tries to find blood on Pakistan's hand every time there is blast in India while being oblivious of homegrown problems at the same time makes it blind to neutral probe in these cases.
This attitude is of India only adds to its hostility in region and to cement this hostility Indian leaders let go no opportunity to contribute to war mongering. Already walking on a tight rope Pakistan can not show weakness to Indian jingoism

I have to agree on this statement. But I am looking for ways to work around the current dynamics, where with willingness on both sides, this problem can be circumvented to acheive peace long term.

 

[Shoaib_Sham]

This is my first post on this forum. I have been reading it for the past week or so off and on and I find so much hatred and war mongering. I think lots of people here just do'nt understand how horrible war actually is.

Well, although a lot has been spoken of military comparisons etc., most of which is biased based on which country you are from. Nobody has spoken on concrete path to bring down current tensions and working towards long term peace between India and Pakistan.

The biggest problem right now is that the people of both India and Pakistan are highly emotional and do not know how to control it and let it cloud their rational thoughts. There was a Pakistani author in Dawn newspaper 'Irfan Hussein' who said it best when he stated that when nationalism runs high, logic goes out of the window. The coverage of media in both India and Pakistan is an example of this phenomenon.

I think a squence of actions in the following order would work in terms of ensuring long term peace and development in the subcontinent.

1. Let the current temperatures cool down for a month or so. Avoid escalatory actions or statements on both sides.

2. Indian leaders should work to avoid jingoism in statements and find way to moderate their response after terrorist attacks. War is not a solution against pakistan because it will not solve the problem of terrorism. Even if they acheive military victory, terrorism will only likely increase because generations of Pakistanis have been brought up on anti-indian propaganda and their thinking in general is " We may go down, but we will take you down with us"

3. Pakistan should come out of denial and conspiracy theory mode and if there is any evidence that the captured terrorist is Pakistani (and the government for sure already knows the answer to this I think) then accept it and use it as a pretext to go hard after the LET, JUD, etc. and try to systematically destroy them. This process will be long and difficult and extremely painful but if peace is the goal, there is no alternative. In this process it may have to take on powerful elements in the military-intelligence circles but I think it is possible to outmanouvre them if strength of concivtion is there from Zardari and co.

4. India should marginalise the extremist reactionary Hindutva forces like Shiv Sena, Bajrang Dal, etc. politically. These guys only in the last 20 years or so have gained any kind of traction in Indian society. But their support base is still very thin. They are not military threats in the way that the Pak organisations above areyet, but if ledt unattended, they may morph into a problem just as bad as the Pakistani organisations above.

4. Above steps 3 and 4 will take a few years. In the meantime, both Pakistan and India should strengthen their internal security forces and work on intel sharing on a reciprocal basis to stop all major terror attacks in both countries. Also they must both develop their economies aggressively. For a few years if people on both sides get used to peace and economic development,the the constituence for peace will get much stronger.

5. Around 8-10 years down the line when the above process is complete, start talking and solving all mutual disputes. Any attempt to do so now will always be thwarted by extremist Pakistani and reactionary Hindutva forces.

If the above 4 steps take place, then the influence of these forces will be very much reduced and the atmosphere will be built up to ensure lasting peace talks.

I know that the lkelyhood of above things happening is not high given that Military Intelligence is an oxymoron and Pakistan is dominated still by military when it comes to external affairs and Indian public is still very immature and a significant portion of it is swayed by the foolish reactionary Hindutva forces.

But in time, I believe that the above will take place since I am an optimist.

Well if u really want to make sense of things, lets than drill down to the facts instead of dwindling on the consmetic points. In the last 5 years and so, if India instead of wasting our and theirs time pointlessly in the name of Confindence building measure, had utilized in resolving the actual conflict between us, that is the Kashmir Issue we wouldnt have been in the situation where we are right now. Resolving the Kashmir Issue will take out the motivation and the rational behind organisations like LeT; taking out the motivation factor is the best way of disarming the enemy. What has these confidence building measures (CBM) mean when an incident like Mumbai and v unfortunate one can bring us back to square one. CBM are nothing but to gain time and a cover up in front of national community so that actual issue remains unattended.

 

[Lockheed F-16]

Take the word RAW and read it the other way round: WAR

That's all I will say

 

[peacenik79]

Yes, I have. RAW should stop funding terrorism in PAK.

That is already part of my plan. In fact, I have gone a step further in remarking that if there is intelligence regarding terror attacks on the other country it should be shared prior to the attacks taking place.