No regional peace without Kashmir solution: Pakistani PM

[luoshan]

You dont have guts to face decision of the Kashmiris so you will never go for plebiscite .

If you think you are right and if you think Kashmiris are on your side and you claim this by saying Kashmris have an "elected" government in Held Kashmir Then WHY you are afraid of conducting plebiscite ?

Dont you think the same Kashmiris will vote for INDIA

We are not afraid of Plebiscite.. We just don't want to conduct plebisite. We are fine with the way things are at present.

 

[luoshan]

Becauce you will lose.



Pity the UN has not "forfeited its right" of kashmiris to choose what they want and with india going against the international community it only makes our case stronger.

Because we are not foolish enough to handover J&K to Pakistan on a platter, after all the sacrifices the brave sons and daughters of India have made to maintain the honor, dignity and territorial integrity of the country.
Pakistan is the only country talking about the UN resolutions today after failing miserably in all its efforts to forcibly grab J&K.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Because we are not foolish enough to handover J&K to Pakistan on a platter, after all the sacrifices the brave sons and daughters of India have made to maintain the honor, dignity and territorial integrity of the country.

You mean all the 'sacrifices' in maintaining an occupation of disputed territory and reneging on your nation's commitment to allowing the kashmiris to determine their future.

It's a rather distasteful argument - sort of like Hitler trying to defend his atrocities, invasions and occupation by lamenting 'all the sacrifices the brave sons and daughters of Germany have made to maintain the honor, dignity and territorial integrity of the country'.

An injustice is an injustice and what is wrong is wrong - just because your nation is deluded and morally bankrupt enough to 'sacrifice its brave sons and daughters' in order to perpetuate an occupation and violate its commitments to the international community, and more importantly to the people under occupation, does not make your nation's actions any better.

 

[Hulk]

You mean all the 'sacrifices' in maintaining an occupation of disputed territory and reneging on your nation's commitment to allowing the kashmiris to determine their future.

It's a rather distasteful argument - sort of like Hitler trying to defend his atrocities, invasions and occupation by lamenting 'all the sacrifices the brave sons and daughters of Germany have made to maintain the honor, dignity and territorial integrity of the country'.

An injustice is an injustice and what is wrong is wrong - just because your nation is deluded and morally bankrupt enough to 'sacrifice its brave sons and daughters' in order to perpetuate an occupation and violate its commitments to the international community and more importantly the people under occupation does not make your nation's actions any better.

Well position on Kashmir of India and Pakistan are well known. What seems injustice to you might not be seen the same way in India.
I do not see India doing any injustice in Kashmir. If people take up weapons against a state then there will be killing on both sides and there will be some collateral damage too. Think about SWAT and Afghanistan both Pakistan and American forces have done collateral damages. When somethings happen in Kashmir its always given anti India color. We have seen many such cases where without even thinking blame was put on armed forces, this makes me believe that there are people in Kashmir who will miss no opportunity to blame India. No army in the world is holy, the way there work is designed often leads to frustration amongst them and some people cross the line. The point which is important is weather it is individual who is doing those acts or is it a state policy. If it is individuals it cannot be blamed on a country.
I have few questions to ask, if all people in Kashmir does not support India then why the J&K assembly has Kashmiri people in there, why there are people in India Parliament who are ministers belong to Kashmir. Why we have 60% turnout in elections, which no-one can debate were not fare. Why there was no problem before 1980 and why people who are now terrorist once participated in those elections. The chief of Hizbul Mujahideen fought elections in 70's or 80's when lost became terrorist. So if one losses election, he has right to start killing people. I assume that election might not have been fare, but does that means pick gun and start killing.

I am open to have a midway position on Kashmir and I do not think extreme position will be acceptable to anyone.

I also condemn countries using terrorism as state policy to settle political disputes. The reason is terrorist kill people who might have nothing to do with the issue in Hand. And last but not the least, no matter how much terrorist attack happens on India that will not influence it decision on Kashmir, if it will, then it will harden the stand only. Look what happened after 26/11.
I am open to debate with anyone who thinks that terrorist can achieve what they say they want to achieve by doing what they are doing now.
If they say they are freedom fighters then explain how each acts helps them achieve there goal. I think this can be interesting topic if anyone wants to start a thread.

 

[Spitfighter]

You mean all the 'sacrifices' in maintaining an occupation of disputed territory and reneging on your nation's commitment to allowing the kashmiris to determine their future.

It's a rather distasteful argument - sort of like Hitler trying to defend his atrocities, invasions and occupation by lamenting 'all the sacrifices the brave sons and daughters of Germany have made to maintain the honor, dignity and territorial integrity of the country'.

An injustice is an injustice and what is wrong is wrong - just because your nation is deluded and morally bankrupt enough to 'sacrifice its brave sons and daughters' in order to perpetuate an occupation and violate its commitments to the international community, and more importantly to the people under occupation, does not make your nation's actions any better.

What commitment? The one Pakistan violated in 1965? The PA put an end to that charade when it crossed the LoC.

Sure, India is deluded and 'morally bankrupt', but Pakistan's policy of strategic depth, ties with the Taliban, arming and training murders is completely acceptable right?

Also, an off topic question, since Pakistan did not initiate the war in '65 (because J&K is disputed territory) if India bombs Ak would it be considered an act of war? and if so, do you agree that Pakistan initiated the war in '65?

 

[luoshan]

Well position on Kashmir of India and Pakistan are well known. What seems injustice to you might not be seen the same way in India.
I do not see India doing any injustice in Kashmir. If people take up weapons against a state then there will be killing on both sides and there will be some collateral damage too. Think about SWAT and Afghanistan both Pakistan and American forces have done collateral damages. When somethings happen in Kashmir its always given anti India color. We have seen many such cases where without even thinking blame was put on armed forces, this makes me believe that there are people in Kashmir who will miss no opportunity to blame India. No army in the world is holy, the way there work is designed often leads to frustration amongst them and some people cross the line. The point which is important is weather it is individual who is doing those acts or is it a state policy. If it is individuals it cannot be blamed on a country.

well said. Exactly my sentiments.
If a few have to suffer 'so called injustice' for the greater good of many, then so be it. Our national interests are above all individual interests. If some one wants to labels us as Nazis or fascists, its fine.. It doesn't change anything on ground.
J&K was by and large the most peaceful state in India, until Pakistan, intoxicated by the success of mujahedeen against soviets in Afghanistan, tried to do the same to India in 1990's. Many kashmiri youth blinded by the religious zeal, blindly followed the path shown by Pakistan, being ignorant of Pakistan's real intentions.

Even today, J&K has very special status & privileges under article 370 of the Indian constitution and has limited autonomy, which no other state enjoys. Also, the per capita central grants that J&K state gets is highest amongst all states. The central government pumps in more money into J&K than revenue generated in the state.

 

[R.A.W.]

Civilians die when the people accidentally come up in between these skirmishes or armed forces and terrorist and ultimately it is blamed on armed forces.

 

[IceCold]

Civilians die when the people accidentally come up in between these skirmishes or armed forces and terrorist and ultimately it is blamed on armed forces.

Go sell this to BR where some one will actually buy this.

 

[Goodperson]

India handling over Kashmir or Pakistan taking over Kashmir is simply not possible. Lets face the reality.

 

[dabong1]

What commitment? The one Pakistan violated in 1965?

No...... the one where nehru said the people of kashmir could choose.

 

[dabong1]

Why did you indian take the kashmir issue to the UN?

 

[luoshan]

Why did you indian take the kashmir issue to the UN?

Because Pakistan illegally invaded part of J&K??

 

[dabong1]

Because Pakistan illegally invaded part of J&K??

How can we invade something that is ours?........its like me saying the indians have invaded bombay.

 

[deep.ocean]

How can we invade something that is ours?........its like me saying the indians have invaded bombay.

How can Kashmir belong to u... you always say that its disputed area...
If only b'coz of muslim population you r claiming kashmir as yours then claim all muslim countries as yours.....

You can claim Bombay is invaded by Indians but problem is now Bombay does not exist... b'coz its Mumbai now...

 

[dabong1]

How can Kashmir belong to u... you always say that its disputed area...
If only b'coz of muslim population you r claiming kashmir as yours then claim all muslim countries as yours.....

Where the majority muslim states supposed to go to pakistan or india?