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FAITH, REASON AND SCIENCE


A THOUSAND YEARS AGO, THE ISLAMIC WORLD WAS AT THE FOREFRONT OF SCIENTIFIC
DISCOVERY. WHY HAS IT FAILED TO KEEP PACE FOR SO LONG? AND WHAT CAN BE DONE TO RE-ESTABLISH THE ROLE OF SCIENCE IN THESE SOCIETIES?


For six centuries Islam presided over a dazzling period of scientific creativity marked by seminal contributions to the natural sciences as well as to mathematics, medicine and philosophy.

This is sometimes difficult to comprehend if you look at countries with predominantly Muslim populations today. Take the Arab states, for example. Collectively they spend around 0.2 percent of their gross domestic product (GDP) on research and development; the average worldwide is 1.4 percent. More worryingly, they account for less than 1 percent of world scientific publications. Only two Muslim countries, Egypt and Pakistan, lay claim to a Nobel Prize in any scientific subject.

Muslim countries contain large numbers of people who take their faith very seriously – even in countries with secular governments. Is it fair to conclude, then, that strong religious faith impedes scientific creativity?

Alternatively, does faith help to make for better science? Or should faith and science be kept at a respectable distance?
Opinions are divided, of course, but can probably be grouped into four main categories:

• Those who believe that science can be a bridge to faith and that academies of science can help forge
a deeper understanding of why people believe.

• Those who believe that some aspects of traditional Islam are incompatible with modern life and
that academies of science – either on their own or with others – should seek to reform traditional
Islam.

• Those who would like to see faith and science kept apart, believing that faith is a private matter and
has no role to play in the pursuit of scientific excellence.

• And those who see no conflict between science and faith. For example many of those who are Muslim cite verses from the Quran as evidence that Islam encourages learning. They argue that the presence of ‘scientific information’ on subjects such as human reproduction and astronomy in the Quran strengthens their belief that the book is of divine origin.

On the broad question of faith and science, the relatively popular practice of going to church does not seem to have dimmed the US’s ability to be the world’s largest producer of research, far ahead of the more agnostic Europe. At the same time, we know that countries with large numbers of observant Muslims also happen to be at – or near – the bottom of global indices of research output.

Why should this be so?
Part of the answer must lie in the largely ineffective education systems that litter not just the Muslim world, but most of the South. Such systems of teaching were inherited from colonial times when rote learning was the principal method of acquiring knowledge.

Pakistan’s end-of-school examinations, for example, are still broadly based on a system first introduced by the British. Poor schooling invariably creates poor quality graduates. Poor quality graduates, in turn, become lousy researchers.

Likewise, the relatively weak standards of democracy in Muslim nations cannot be ignored. It is by no means a coincidence that countries with high standards of research tend to have strong parliaments, genuine protection of civil liberties, and vibrant civil society organizations. In much of the Muslim world, by contrast, these factors are all relatively weak.

Some of this undoubtedly can also be attributed to the current practice of Islam, in which followers accord the highest respect to parents, grandparents, teachers and elders – all intended to shore up the stability of families and communities and to maintain the existence of social mores. As a result, young people in Muslim countries grow up in environments where they are encouraged to conform and follow, not to question and challenge – important prerequisites for research creativity to flourish.

Islam often is described as a complete code of life – a set of rules laid down in the Quran and exemplified in the life of the Prophet Muhammed. In many ways, this is true. The book contains detailed advice on a multitude of issues and on a multitude
of scales. Among other things, it outlines the rudiments of a social security system, and lays out the “do’s” and “don’ts” of engaging in warfare. There’s also advice for couples who want to divorce, and a detailed account of penal codes that in some quarters have remained in place until this day.

In most Muslim countries today, religious leaders aim to interpret Islamic teachings to the letter of the law. But invariably, there are issues, questions and contexts not covered in either the Quran or the life of the Prophet. Muslim jurists generally agree that the practice of Islam can be distilled from four sources: the Quran, the Prophet’s life, scholarly consensus (a kind of peer review), and independent reasoning.

However, most traditional scholars today accord only a small role to independent reasoning. Throughout the Muslim world, this view, and the broader role and position of religious leaders largely, goes unchallenged. That’s partly because most intellectuals lack the knowledge to engage in debate, but also because of a fear of being labeled enemies of faith – something that carries heavy personal consequences. Intriguingly, however, for the first six centuries after the death of the Prophet in 632 AD, there was a vigorous scholarly debate, particularly on the question of the place of reason in interpreting revelation.

Two hundred years after the death of the Prophet, a rationalist movement began in Islamic countries, which lasted until the 12th century. For much of that time, the movement also had the backing of political authorities. Rationalists argued – against the view of most Muslims – that the Quran was a ‘created’ work and not necessarily of divine origin. Some also argued that reason alone should be the basis for making decisions. But rather than letting the debate take its course, rationalists used the force of their political power to insist that citizens bow to their views. Dissenters were punished, and prisons were full of scholars and ordinary folk who chose to disagree. Torture was widespread.

As we now know, in the end the rationalists were defeated. Crucially, when opposition to their ideas became a mass movement, they lost their political patronage. With the exception of a brief period at the turn of the 20th century, talk of rationalism and reform within Islam has since been isolated to a few individuals.

The point of this foray into Islamic history is threefold. First, it indicates that Muslim societies have a strong tradition of rational thought; second, that the engagement of faith and reason has not been an altogether happy one; and third, that if research and creativity are to be revived in Muslim countries, revivalists and reformers will need to re-engage with theologians.

Cast a gaze at the map of Muslim countries, and you will find few places where this is happening. Iran is an exception. There, academics such as the philosopher of science Abdolkarim Soroush have a large readership, especially among the young. Soroush is a strong proponent of a greater role for reason within Islamic theology But Iran is unusual in the Muslim world in that it is an Islamic state, a theocracy, and a largely Shiite one at that. In recent years, Shiite theologians have traditionally been more receptive to new and different interpretations of faith compared to their majority Sunni counterparts.

While Abdolkarim Soroush has not had an easy time at home, his mostly clerical detractors are at least willing to engage in debate because they recognize that his arguments have historical validity.

A ‘Sunni Soroush’ would face a potentially more hostile audience. At best, his or her motives would be
questioned. At worst, he or she may even be branded an apostate – a person regarded as having betrayed their religion – a label that would immediately ruin any chance of building public trust. In many Muslim countries today, apostasy still carries the death penalty.

One researcher who is courageously willing to live with such a risk is Morocco’s Fatema Mernissi
(see Fatema Mernissi). Mernissi,a sociologist and historian of gender relations in Islam, is well equipped to debate and engage in dialogue with the Islamic faith establishment on its own terms.

For much of the 1990s, she focused her work on the erosion of women’s rights in Muslim societies,
arguing that it is often misogyny, rather than Islamic teachings, that has led to such a situation. She is
currently exploring the relationship between access to information and communications technologies and the rise of civil society movements in Morocco.

Researchers such as Mernissi and Soroush are not, however, the tip of a large iceberg. They are relatively rare. Only time will tell whether they have blazed a new trail, or are isolated, one-hit wonders. More Mernissis and second generation Soroushes are more likely to flourish in institutions that encourage creativity and original thinking. Developing such institutions, perhaps, is the biggest challenge for science academies in countries with predominantly Muslim populations.
Ehsan Masood
Freelance journalist and former director of communications
LEAD International London, UK
 
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Best thing for the Arabs was Nasser and the Arab Baathist despite their military failures under Nasser Egypt was the most advanced arab nation during the 50's-70's. society was progressing and science was big.

When you replace nationalism with radical Islam things happen...
 
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Once the science takes over religion becomes irrelevant and they loose not only control and respect but even there bread and butter

Rubbish!

It is true that convictions can best be supported with experience and clear thinking. On this point one must agree unreservedly with the extreme rationalist. The weak point of his conception is, however, this, that those convictions which are necessary and determinant for our conduct and judgments cannot be found solely along this solid scientific way.

For the scientific method can teach us nothing else beyond how facts are related to, and conditioned by, each other.The aspiration toward such objective knowledge belongs to the highest of which man is capabIe, and you will certainly not suspect me of wishing to belittle the achievements and the heroic efforts of man in this sphere. Yet it is equally clear that knowledge of what is does not open the door directly to what should be.

One can have the clearest and most complete knowledge of what is, and yet not be able to deduct from that what should be the goal of our human aspirations. Objective knowledge provides us with powerful instruments for the achievements of certain ends, but the ultimate goal itself and the longing to reach it must come from another source. And it is hardly necessary to argue for the view that our existence and our activity acquire meaning only by the setting up of such a goal and of corresponding values.

The knowledge of truth as such is wonderful, but it is so little capable of acting as a guide that it cannot prove even the justification and the value of the aspiration toward that very knowledge of truth. Here we face, therefore, the limits of the purely rational conception of our existence.
A. Einstein


The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. He who knows it not and can no longer wonder, no longer feel amazement, is as good as dead, a snuffed-out candle.

It was the experience of mystery--even if mixed with fear--that engendered religion. A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms--it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man
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That does not mean that religion is wrong or a scientist has to be an atheist to be effective. If you really believe in your religion then science should help to confirm it not go against it.
Coming from a scientist was a surprising to me. Religion do poses a contradiction, because it supposes some thing without any scientific explaination. May be its just too courageous (even for you) to critically evaluate anything on which too much resources have been comitted.

I was in the same stage (trap) first I judged other religion on the scientfic parameters like the truth of scriptures, etc. (and proved all of them to be practically worthless and idiotic text) then realised that those religions have a lot of commonalities with one I was born with.

In short I proved all of them to be worthless by induction:cheesy:.

I now feel relatively free and have felt a lot of biases reduced.

[I don't understand why stupid shiekhs and mullahs hate science so much.
Once the science takes over religion becomes irrelevant and they loose not only control and respect but even there bread and butter.

Listen to Richard dawkins, Christopher hitchens. There are several debates between theist and atheist on internet. As a scientific person you might be able to understand a lot of what is being said.

I went into a self reflecting period in my life where I questioned religion atheism Buddhism you name it and read extensively on their subjects to find what I am really looking for. In the end I found that Islam is the religion that makes more sense and is the most pro-science religion in the world. You have to look beyond the corrupt interpretations of Islam to really find what I am looking for. You have to look at Islam instead of Muslims to see this. Since Islam and Muslims are two very different things.
 
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I would love to know that are there any Muslim scholars believe that religion should have changed as per the modern times and new science developments. Or people should just stick to their holy book which was written ago thousand years ago ?(whether he is sikh,muslim or hindu) ust curious.
 
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why should there be an islamic world?
can't it be just indians,americans,paks,turks etc......?
why should there be muslims(within them,sunnis,shias),hindus(brahmins,vaishyas),christians(catholics,protestants) etc?


can't we just forget all these religions?we all know that god exist.he is there.why give a different forms for him.
ok,lets give him different forms and all him different names.why fight over it?

guys,martians and other aliens will make fun of us!
 
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Money is a factor too... Given unlimited resources I would study like crazy too and probably get into research. With the all the Steve Jobs videos out, I saw his commencement address to Stanford where he ends it with Stay Hungry, Stay foolish. Say that to a Pakistani guy and he would be like, who will pay for the kids education, food, shelter, clothing and so on.

The entire world is increasing scholarships, Pakistan just killed all its scholarship programs.

Sadly, the Muslim world is nor restricted to Pakistan hence, I cannot accept your opinion as some of the richest countries in the world are Muslim countries and they are the least educated. With all the resources (practically unlimited, as per your desire) of the world and none of the worries, the Arabs are still some of the most illiterate nations. They could have conquered and overwhelmed the world with their resources, had they invested in education, research, development etc.. but sadly the only legacy they offer to the world is 'bigger boats, bigger buildings, bigger jets and all foreign made!'.
 
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I don't understand why stupid shiekhs and mullahs hate science so much.

It would be easy to say that they are stupid and ignorant ir that they fear the loss of their privileges and respect and status in society - but lets give them the benefit of the doubt - I will ask you to read again the article responsibilities of the Muslim Intellectual - The Ulema do not know how to reconcile Islam and Modernity - they fear for you and me, they seek to safeguard us but do not have the training to know how to do this - because they are single sourced, their education is religious texts of old, which they internalize with out criticism - critical and criticism itself they hold suspect - and all modernity is the critical and criticism.

They hate science because they do not understand the criteria, the demarcation between science and non-science - they do not understand that FAITH is not the purview of PROOFS - that FAITH means conviction in the ABSENCE of confirming circumstances, and Science the framework in which an explanation of chains of observable events may be created.

Someone asked Why would we want Nobel prize, what do we get from it - this is a silly question, it suggests that we have been misunderstood - We seek achievement, we seek the expansion of the human spirit, we seek exalted experience of reality, vividly and deeply apprehended and articulated, we seek to be a part of the whole.
 
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Sadly, the Muslim world is nor restricted to Pakistan hence, I cannot accept your opinion as some of the richest countries in the world are Muslim countries and they are the least educated. With all the resources (practically unlimited, as per your desire) of the world and none of the worries, the Arabs are still some of the most illiterate nations. They could have conquered and overwhelmed the world with their resources, had they invested in education, research, development etc.. but sadly the only legacy they offer to the world is 'bigger boats, bigger buildings, bigger jets and all foreign made!'.

Illiterate?? Are you serious??
The average rate of GCC States Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf (GCC) was 94 %.

AND King Abdullah Project for General Education Development:
"he King Abdullah Project for General Education Development is a SR9 billion project and it will be implemented over the next six years to guarantee the availability of a highly skilled and motivated work force in the future. A number of schools in Jeddah, Riyadh and Dammam have been selected for the implementation of this project. Crown Prince Sultan will head a ministerial committee to supervise the project, which will begin with creating a high-tech classroom environment in Saudi Arabia in six years. More than 400,000 teachers will be trained to handle classes in the high-tech style. In addition, this project will emphasize on extracurricular activities for the purpose of developing intellectual, creative and communicative skills of students."

AND read this Saudi Arabia Reaches Out to Foreign Colleges at Conference - Global - The Chronicle of Higher Education

---------- Post added at 09:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 AM ----------

yeah I just noticed that. sorry. but almost all of the content is correct.

yes this video is correct. I use this video to generate awareness in my community myself.
 
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Maso

Don't get into a measuring contest - it will derail the thread and that would not be good for those who will do that - this is NOT the Abdullah forum
 
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It would be easy to say that they are stupid and ignorant ir that they fear the loss of their privileges and respect and status in society - but lets give them the benefit of the doubt - I will ask you to read again the article responsibilities of the Muslim Intellectual - The Ulema do not know how to reconcile Islam and Modernity - they fear for you and me, they seek to safeguard us but do not have the training to know how to do this - because they are single sourced, their education is religious texts of old, which they internalize with out criticism - critical and criticism itself they hold suspect - and all modernity is the critical and criticism.

They hate science because they do not understand the criteria, the demarcation between science and non-science - they do not understand that FAITH is not the purview of PROOFS - that FAITH means conviction in the ABSENCE of confirming circumstances, and Science the framework in which an explanation of chains of observable events may be created.

Someone asked Why would we want Nobel prize, what do we get from it - this is a silly question, it suggests that we have been misunderstood - We seek achievement, we seek the expansion of the human spirit, we seek exalted experience of reality, vividly and deeply apprehended and articulated, we seek to be a part of the whole.

I never thought I would agree with you on something but here I am thanking you for this post. However I don't agree with you on the fact that you see Islam or rather "Islamism" as the problem. When the problem in fact is "Non-Islamism".

Saudi Arabia itself is changing from that. There is a great internal struggle. Almost to the point of what you can say a cold civil-war with media outlets owned by both sides constantly fighting. When a scientific seminar is held a religious gathering is held a week later. The society is becoming more and more divided. However the scientific part of society is winning the war. You can see that by the increased freedoms colleges research centers etc. happening around Saudi Arabia. This is why I have really high hopes on Saudi Arabia's future. Our scientific output is increasing in the double digits each year. Increased funding for research each year. In time you will see a different Saudi Arabia inshallah.

---------- Post added at 09:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 AM ----------

Maso

Don't get into a measuring contest - it will derail the thread and that would not be good for those who will do that - this is NOT the Abdullah forum

It is not a measuring contest. He stated wrong things and posted them as facts so I proved him wrong nothing more.
 
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Maso

Once again - some academicians and researchers are relying on the "generosity" of an Individual, a political individua -- and after he is dead and gone, what then?


You will one day be a scientist and a physician -- and of course it is imperative for you to understand Epistemology to deep your understanding of the philosophy of science -- and I want to say that this is where our problem is -- our ulema find it very difficult to accept the notion that knowledge evolves - that knowledge can grow and contract - from their point of view, knowledge is static or in stasis and this suits them.

In addition because we are living in the modern world, because we are shaped by the modern world,. our experience and worldview clashes with theirs - but there is a difference, they are killing to engage in political violence - thus far we have not been willing -but the history of Ulema does not give us confidence that they will want to accommodate modernity - that they will speak of a balance between the language of the past (religious obligations) and the language of modernity (rights) - the balance for ulema between Deen and Duniya has been very difficult - indeed, so difficult that they have in some cases, given up on the project.
 
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Maso

Once again - some academicians and researchers are relying on the "generosity" of an Individual, a political individua -- and after he is dead and gone, what then?


You will one day be a scientist and a physician -- and of course it is imperative for you to understand Epistemology to deep your understanding of the philosophy of science -- and I want to say that this is where our problem is -- our ulema find it very difficult to accept the notion that knowledge evolves - that knowledge can grow and contract - from their point of view, knowledge is static or in stasis and this suits them.

In addition because we are living in the modern world, because we are shaped by the modern world,. our experience and worldview clashes with theirs - but there is a difference, they are killing to engage in political violence - thus far we have not been willing -but the history of Ulema does not give us confidence that they will want to accommodate modernity - that they will speak of a balance between the language of the past (religious obligations) and the language of modernity (rights) - the balance for ulema between Deen and Duniya has been very difficult - indeed, so difficult that they have in some cases, given up on the project.

He is setting an Example and a path for us to take after him. Islam is not something that was set for the dark ages and is now obsolete if we follow it to the letter in fact it leaves great room for modernity. Our Ulema have even taken the name of "Ulema" Which means "Scientists" and marked themselves with it. And as a school teacher once told me "Scientists are not Ulemas that are Inventors, and it is wrong to call them Ulema because Ulema is a name for our religious clerics" I have to thank that teacher though he showed me exactly what is the image I should be fighting in my society so I took him as a scientific project of my own to study his psyche and found exactly the way to counter his school of thought.

Islam if taken by its original and normal roots you will find that it gives all the goods you find in the west coupled with all the goods that you find in the Islamic world.
 
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