No J-10B for PAF | A.C Khalid, calls for a focus on 5th generation platform instead.

[Munir]

Just to move away from serious answer... If PAF trust 80 era F16 ADF to handle IAF then that does make you all feel bad... How come? Maybe ask USA to stop this or that.

Anyway the much tooted Bison. If it flies with two BVR... It has no fueltanks under the wing. What is the range? What is the speed? What is the radar range? To my knowledge (which is basic) it can go up. Fly not that fast and not that far from the airfield. Hope that the opponent does not track it first or use BVR before the Bison... And hopefully the radar signatures of the Bison and the BVR is not in the library... Then maybe it can become a winner. We still hope it survives the launch of its own BVR and is able to land back within a few minutes. Still better then the not operational LCA. Your MKI are not able to avoid civil air traffic. What will they do during wartime? fight weather balloons? Or track stars cause they might be UFO's?

A fun link not related to the topic but more to the posters..

http://www.condomdepot.com/learn/detail.cfm/cid/116

 

[IND151]

Lets just talk for the present , shall we. !!

The Indians HATE Their New Russian-Made Stealth Fighter — War is Boring — Medium

Every new fighter has glitches in its development phase.

They are gradually removed, over many marks/ bloks.

 

[FNFAL]

Google on the Bisons, its even there on a youtube vid,,you can see the R77s and HMDs on th mig21 pilot
By definition , BVR means beyond 37kms..and thats not 1-2 kms
Sheer frustation? No...the USAF pilots were quite surprised on meeting the MIg21s. Not that they were scared but held respect
You can study and build on logic.

JF17s were compared with the f16 and hence the coinage .The league is different but the aspirations of pakisatnis are not.
Wrongly invested? No, They simply do not have a better offer on hand. The financial condition of pakistan is not great to get modern western fighter in different roles to satisfy its need. IMHO you folks could have gone for the Grippen NG albeit in lesser numbers, but hey that is what you AF folks did not decide.
JF 17 has a lot of scope to improve and mature - into a true 4th gen aircraft from its current standing and which is not a bad thing as you would have considerable older gen aircraft to retire.

For F16s , this aircraft is battle proven and ur pilts have mastered it.It would only make more sense to get more of these to maintain them as the definitive Air Supp fighter from PAF.

 

[FNFAL]

Just to move away from serious answer... If PAF trust 80 era F16 ADF to handle IAF then that does make you all feel bad... How come? Maybe ask USA to stop this or that.
Anyway the much tooted Bison. If it flies with two BVR... It has no fueltanks under the wing. What is the range? What is the speed? What is the radar range? To my knowledge (which is basic) it can go up. Fly not that fast and not that far from the airfield. Hope that the opponent does not track it first or use BVR before the Bison... And hopefully the radar signatures of the Bison and the BVR is not in the library... Then maybe it can become a winner. We still hope it survives the launch of its own BVR and is able to land back within a few minutes. Still better then the not operational LCA. Your MKI are not able to avoid civil air traffic. What will they do during wartime? fight weather balloons? Or track stars cause they might be UFO's?

It has nothing to make me feel happy sad or funny..its your air, use the best tool to defend it, IMHO a F16 Block 60 is mile ahead of a unproven design. But hey if you still wanna blv your JF17s are better, be my guest.

Comin to the rant on MIg21s, you sounded so juvenile. Mig 21 is not the future of the IAF. Also i dont think you understand the role of MIg 21... It was a point interceptor. Guided by GCI it was to pounce on its target already discovered. The same goes for the first gen Mig29As and Bs. Do remember,how PN atlantique was shot down.
Coming to MKIs Please read the same from the incident :
"
Reports suggested that two civilian planes of Thai Airways and another foreign operator were flying around 10 nautical miles away from the IAF aircraft.

The IAF denied that there was any "near-miss incident" involving its aircraft as it was under positive radar coverage and was cleared for operating in that area."

UFO near IB, IAF scrambles Sukhoi-30MKI - Economic Times

Its not my fault if the world doesn't share your enthusiasm bout jf17. Sure to you it may be the next f22 in the making, for me its still a poor mans viper.

 

[Windjammer]

Google on the Bisons, its even there on a youtube vid,,you can see the R77s and HMDs on th mig21 pilot
By definition , BVR means beyond 37kms..and thats not 1-2 kms
Sheer frustation? No...the USAF pilots were quite surprised on meeting the MIg21s. Not that they were scared but held respect
You can study and build on logic.

JF17s were compared with the f16 and hence the coinage .The league is different but the aspirations of pakisatnis are not.
Wrongly invested? No, They simply do not have a better offer on hand. The financial condition of pakistan is not great to get modern western fighter in different roles to satisfy its need. IMHO you folks could have gone for the Grippen NG albeit in lesser numbers, but hey that is what you AF folks did not decide.
JF 17 has a lot of scope to improve and mature - into a true 4th gen aircraft from its current standing and which is not a bad thing as you would have considerable older gen aircraft to retire.

For F16s , this aircraft is battle proven and ur pilts have mastered it.It would only make more sense to get more of these to maintain them as the definitive Air Supp fighter from PAF.

You are ignorant of one main factor, while India may have the money but no brains to fund new fighters, even after decades of delays, it's still keen to produce and induct the LCA. The failure is all the more astonishing as in the past India has had experience with the likes of HF-24 and Ajeet. When the JFT project was initiated, it was a desire to be self sufficient than the financial issue alas it's Pakistan which repeatedly had to face embargoes which affected the PAF more than any other services.

 

[SC_really]

do you know a project is named “AFC”

 

[Black Widow]

So no J10B...


Look like Pakistan is going to rely on FC1 and old F16s ...

 

[FNFAL]

You are ignorant of one main factor, while India may have the money but no brains to fund new fighters, even after decades of delays, it's still keen to produce and induct the LCA. The failure is all the more astonishing as in the past India has had experience with the likes of HF-24 and Ajeet. When the JFT project was initiated, it was a desire to be self sufficient than the financial issue alas it's Pakistan which repeatedly had to face embargoes which affected the PAF more than any other services.

The fact that you had the drag the IAF ,marut,sabre slayers and LCA points to the insecurity that you have the future PAF. Not once in my posts to relevant members have i spoken of LCA and IAFs answer to the same. Why troll if you cannot contribute?

PAF chose or got the JF17 because it cannot AFFORD anything better. Off-course you are going to face embargoes with borrowed technology. As i said better, JF 17 has a lot of scope to be a true 4th gen fighter in next decade(s)

 

[PWFI]

The industrial capability of Pakistan is behind that of India and Pakistani is way behind India in aerospace sector.

The fact that we are world's 4th largest steel producer and are able to send probe on moon should tell you something.

IAF can afford to not induct Tejas until it is fully mature; Jf-17 is still not fully mature and neither, unlike Tejas, is JV where Chinese share in development is far greater than that of Pakistani.

If pakistan industrial capablity is behind india, and it still achieve to produce MF-17 super mushak, K-8, Jf-17 and even export it, then shame on india whose product can't get more than a prototype. If india can afford to not induct Tejas until it is fully mature, it doesn't mean he's capable to built one, get the difference?Yes, pakistan get help from china, so does india, everything is imported, even the disign is imported, and you guys are still incapable to make a 4th generation aircraft after 30 year.

 

[Kompromat]

@Zarvan l We are looking at between 150-250 Thunders in III blocks plus more F-16s.

@asad71 - As far as i know, the Air Force is extremely pleased by Thunders so far.

 

[Windjammer]

The fact that you had the drag the IAF ,marut,sabre slayers and LCA points to the insecurity that you have the future PAF. Not once in my posts to relevant members have i spoken of LCA and IAFs answer to the same. Why troll if you cannot contribute?

PAF chose or got the JF17 because it cannot AFFORD anything better. Off-course you are going to face embargoes with borrowed technology. As i said better, JF 17 has a lot of scope to be a true 4th gen fighter in next decade(s)

Albeit you did repeatedly mention the Bison in your posts, nonetheless there was no question of dragging in or any comparison, it was merely to give you an idea of the ground realities but since you had to mention the so called Sabre slayer, well we actually have a shiny example sitting in a museum. As for the affordability the block-52s were bought while the JFT was well into progress in fact i think the JFT was inducted before the Vipers arrived.

 

[Munir]

About the ADF. These are planned to go through MLU to get it equal to all other F16's. With that these planes are the cheapest ever block52's And since block 52 is pretty good plane I think it is no longer question whether these assets will be valuable or not. To remind you of the reality. PAF non MLU f16's were able to stop MKI with all the goodies during encounter near the borders. When we had F7's they Indians entered the Pakistani area but returned before they were contacted.

 

[FNFAL]

Albeit you did repeatedly mention the Bison in your posts, nonetheless there was no question of dragging in or any comparison, it was merely to give you an idea of the ground realities but since you had to mention the so called Sabre slayer, well we actually have a shiny example sitting in a museum. As for the affordability the block-52s were bought while the JFT was well into progress in fact i think the JFT was inducted before the Vipers arrived.

That response was to another member who confused BVR tech being post 2000s .... Still i do not see the logic behind bringing LCA when talking of R77s and Sparrows. For the sabre slayer, to each his definition after the battle of Boyra.

Coming to f16s and Jf17s, as i have stated, jf17s were the only viable option with BVR back in the day,,this was before the US congress approved the sale of amraams ..PAf realised that JF17 along with the SD10 may be the only BVR capable aircrfat in its inventory. Plus , also the aging f7s and mirages have to go, what better than a poor mans viper.

To remind you of the reality. PAF non MLU f16's were able to stop MKI with all the goodies during encounter near the borders. When we had F7's they Indians entered the Pakistani area but returned before they were contacted.

I find many enthusiastic pakistani members quoting such a cute incident. Can i have a non pakistani source?

 

[araz]

Sir I have question if we are not going for J-10 B that means soon we would have only two kind of Fighter Jets that is F-16 and JF-17 and we need at least 450 Fighter Jets to counter India will these twos jets combined be close to 450 if not than we would need a third Air Craft @Munir @Luftwaffe @fatman17 @Oscar

Bhai.
We will not require that manuy fighters on account of the technology leap that JFT has taken ie BVR capable ,good EW suiteand faster turnaround.. The reaosn we have so many numbers is because of fighters with specified roles in PAF currently. With multi role fighters we would not require that. We will contiue to have some PGs and some M3s which are later frames till they finish out hteir stint. It must be understoof that what has been said is not the official position of PAF and as mentioned before the situation is under constant review. The choices will be made easier as the chinese engines come on line and mature, as some of the current concerns will be alleviated.
Araz

 

[Munir]

A few years ago I had the honor with talking to Swiss official during my visit to Meieringen. They were in the middle of Gripen deal. He told me something valuable. It is not the number of planes that make a big deal and even totally surrounded by Nato something not positive... Without planes going up to stop intruders the Swiss would be used an abused. So they might have a few planes, every time someone comes near the border they are there to stop.

We have not that low numbers... But it is clear we do not need 1v1... We will defend and we have done with much smaller numbers and even bigger difference in quantity. And there is always the army that will stop. Remember the chai in Lahore? I guess we know that this time there will be not even chai in Mumbai...