No J-10B for PAF | A.C Khalid, calls for a focus on 5th generation platform instead.

[FNFAL]

Sir I have question if we are not going for J-10 B that means soon we would have only two kind of Fighter Jets that is F-16 and JF-17 and we need at least 450 Fighter Jets to counter India will these twos jets combined be close to 450 if not than we would need a third Air Craft

The PAF still envisons the F16 as the definitive top line fighter your force will use for the days to come.
The JF17 is a poor man's viper that will fill the 2nd tier and will replace the antique mirage iii/Vs and the F7s.
If my assumptions are correct, it would go a long way in increasing maintainability across the board, and you should be happy. Howsoever you may dream, India wont attack pak in the coming decades and hence negates the need for tit for tat purchase to offset the mmrca. Later on when the j31 matures and if your finances allow, you may take that route..but i dont see the same for the next 8-10 years as PAF would be more busy in getting the JF17 is required quantities

 

[Munir]

Sir I have question if we are not going for J-10 B that means soon we would have only two kind of Fighter Jets that is F-16 and JF-17 and we need at least 450 Fighter Jets to counter India will these twos jets combined be close to 450 if not than we would need a third Air Craft @Munir @Luftwaffe @fatman17 @Oscar

You need diversity. That is west and east. There is no diversity in the role of the planes anymore. The weapons are pretty much intelligent so you can add them whenever you want. The planes are multi role. There is no real a2g or a2a plane these days, it is about how much you wanna transport. Since we are not going for long range (although F16 with CFT and big wingtanks can do nicely that) you already have enough with F16 and JF17.

Let me ask you something. What extra would another single engined plane give to pump another say 2-5 billion USD into it? Maybe stealth in the shape of J31 but till then...

The PAF still envisons the F16 as the definitive top line fighter your force will use for the days to come.
The JF17 is a poor man's viper that will fill the 2nd tier and will replace the antique mirage iii/Vs and the F7s.
If my assumptions are correct, it would go a long way in increasing maintainability across the board, and you should be happy. Howsoever you may dream, India wont attack pak in the coming decades and hence negates the need for tit for tat purchase to offset the mmrca. Later on when the j31 matures and if your finances allow, you may take that route..but i dont see the same for the next 8-10 years as PAF would be more busy in getting the JF17 is required quantities

When I am well informed you will have enough headache with the block 3 poor man's viper... I am so sorry for members I cannot say more. But I am looking forward to certain planning I do know...

 

[Zarvan]

You need diversity. That is west and east. There is no diversity in the role of the planes anymore. The weapons are pretty much intelligent so you can add them whenever you want. The planes are multi role. There is no real a2g or a2a plane these days, it is about how much you wanna transport. Since we are not going for long range (although F16 with CFT and big wingtanks can do nicely that) you already have enough with F16 and JF17.

Let me ask you something. What extra would another single engined plane give to pump another say 2-5 billion USD into it? Maybe stealth in the shape of J31 but till then...



When I am well informed you will have enough headache with the block 3 poor man's viper... I am so sorry for members I cannot say more. But I am looking forward to certain planning I do know...

Sir okay if not J-10 B would be able to produce so many JF-17 and get so many F-16 which makes us reach at least 450 Fighter Jets ???????

You need diversity. That is west and east. There is no diversity in the role of the planes anymore. The weapons are pretty much intelligent so you can add them whenever you want. The planes are multi role. There is no real a2g or a2a plane these days, it is about how much you wanna transport. Since we are not going for long range (although F16 with CFT and big wingtanks can do nicely that) you already have enough with F16 and JF17.

Let me ask you something. What extra would another single engined plane give to pump another say 2-5 billion USD into it? Maybe stealth in the shape of J31 but till then...



When I am well informed you will have enough headache with the block 3 poor man's viper... I am so sorry for members I cannot say more. But I am looking forward to certain planning I do know...

So according to you Sir work BLOCK 3 has already started

 

[FNFAL]

When I am well informed you will have enough headache with the block 3 poor man's viper... I am so sorry for members I cannot say more. But I am looking forward to certain planning I do know

Pardon if I may be wrong,the current batch is equal to Block 15 F16s, block 2 is years away and block 3 even further down the line.
Headache? Yes definitely, no enemy should be underestimated. That is reason i say that PAF would want this bird in quantities. Remember, if the us decides to mothball your supplies, your falcons would sit , but your jf17s would fly. That is reason,and not because the jf17 is superior to f16.
Care to spill the beans ?

 

[volatile]

Pardon if I may be wrong,the current batch is equal to Block 15 F16s, block 2 is years away and block 3 even further down the line.
Headache? Yes definitely, no enemy should be underestimated. That is reason i say that PAF would want this bird in quantities. Remember, if the us decides to mothball your supplies, your falcons would sit , but your jf17s would fly. That is reason,and not because the jf17 is superior to f16.
Care to spill the beans ?

Uff i hate it when people start repeating same question JF-17 block 1 firstly not equivalent to block 15 (BVR enabled) Secondly why PAF will be investing to get 1980s Tech is this some thing you should really understand as most of things about JF-17 is deep secret not disclosed so please refrain from such comments

 

[FNFAL]

Uff i hate it when people start repeating same question JF-17 block 1 firstly not equivalent to block 15 (BVR enabled) Secondly why PAF will be investing to get 1980s Tech is this some thing you should really understand as most of things about JF-17 is deep secret not disclosed so please refrain from such comments

Sorry to get your BP high
Actually the capability was discussed on another aviation forum where many pak members said the same .

Regarding technology, you do know about the roots of the JF17? It is also a 70/80's tech . Whatever tech will be added for subsequent blocks are existing technologies that are already in service with airforces around the world. Its not that jf17 is the next f22 killer. So chillax.

 

[volatile]

Regarding technology, you do know about the roots of the JF17? It is also a 70/80's tech

How Please prove as DSI/HMD/BVR is this available in 70/80s ,

Whatever tech will be added for subsequent blocks are existing technologies that are already in service with airforces around the world

PLease do read some thing/do your home work first then debate.

Its not that jf17 is the next f22 killer. So chillax.

Its never intended to be Its just replacement of 70/80s Tech (Yoo Happy now i have used 70/80 word for JF-17)

 

[FNFAL]

How Please Prove as DSI/HMD/BVR is this available in 70/80s ,

PLease do read some thing/do your home work first then debate.

Its never intended to be Its just replacement of 70/80s Tech (Yoo Happy now i have used 70/80 word for JF-17)

My ill-informed friend Even our old MIG21's and Romanian Mig21 Lancers have HMD with BVR capability.The early gen Mig29s/Su27s had the same. In that context BVR was achieved in 1954 with a sparrow 1.
DSI is not a big deal. It was first tested in the early 90s and was incorporated in a block 30 F16 waaaaay back in 1996, OF late it appears only in Chinese jets and the F35. Thats it.

The basic air-frame and design still has its roots in the cancelled mig single fighter to counter the f16 and then the chinese and american involvement/ Avionics and weapon packages will always surge ahead.And that is the reason why a 1950's mig21 with upgrades and with decent support can hold its own to a certain extent againts a more modern jet

Coming to the need of jf17, as i had mentioned earlier, that is a poor mans viper that is intended to fulfill at-least 70-80% of a early gen F16 but a reduced price as PAF envisons to replace all obsolete aircraft with this type- that includes the f7pgs and the Mirage roses. AM i denying is a good aircraft for the money? NO. But at the same time please do not equate the same with a F16 Block 60 or a Grippen NG. Sab ka limit hota hain yaar . CHill.Pleas do not take any negative feeling

 

[IND151]

We are not Indian please don't compare us with you, you guys are even not capable to build a 4 generation fighter with help from all around the world, where as we are getting ready to introduce Jf-17 block II. Please don't insult us, stop comparing us with you

The industrial capability of Pakistan is behind that of India and Pakistani is way behind India in aerospace sector.

The fact that we are world's 4th largest steel producer and are able to send probe on moon should tell you something.

IAF can afford to not induct Tejas until it is fully mature; Jf-17 is still not fully mature and neither, unlike Tejas, is JV where Chinese share in development is far greater than that of Pakistani.

 

[Munir]

Pardon if I may be wrong,the current batch is equal to Block 15 F16s, block 2 is years away and block 3 even further down the line.
Headache? Yes definitely, no enemy should be underestimated. That is reason i say that PAF would want this bird in quantities. Remember, if the us decides to mothball your supplies, your falcons would sit , but your jf17s would fly. That is reason,and not because the jf17 is superior to f16.
Care to spill the beans ?

I love the ignore option. I love the personal moderating option of just throw time consuming waste away... Love it.

The industrial capability of Pakistan is behind that of India.

IAF can afford to not induct Tejas until it is fully mature; Jf-17 is still not fully mature and neither, unlike Tejas, is JV where Chinese share in development is far greater than that of Pakistani.

Can afford to what? You're number of squadrons is going down like no other... Hahahahaha. You cannot produce simple delta with the help of everyone. That has nothing to do with can afford but purely not able to do anything. Another one on ignore list.

I just want to add that I do not believe that Pakistani are the best or able to deliver the latest without any effort... But I am shocked to the limitless arrogance of Indian members. Elite or not. They are hardly on earth. Trust me. I do not hate Indians. But the big numbers on the internet are hardly aware that their nation is not able to handle big projects. Lots of hot air. Superb sheets... But in the end they run to Israel, USA, Russia and cry not to deliver Pakistan anything. That is not a superpower to me. That is a spoiled child without brains.

they had some cope India with hardly armed and limited USA planes and start shouting that their mig21 are better.... We flew with PG against F22. Against block60. Against Mirage 2000-9. Hell, even against F15's... Or Ef2000... Do you hear anything directly?

 

[IND151]

This incident happened. Senior members here have themselves attested to it. (Some members, who are either currently serving in Pakistan military and have contacts have themselves talked to people who were involved in the interception (whether as ground radar operators or whatever) )



Nobody is talking about what IAF or PAF claims. We are talking about numbers from neutral data-bases such as ACIG.org.

Look at the thread, even senior Indian members accept it. lol

The fact is that PAF has shot down way many more indian aircrafts than vice versa. That is a fact accepted by all.



No.

Su-30MKI and Miraage-2000 entered in two different sectors.

Early 'lock-on' was done by one F-16...later, the back-up arrived.

not all 7 were F-16s

It was a mix of F-16 and other aircrafts...

Kindly provide link for claim.

The fact is that PAF has shot down way many more indian aircrafts than vice versa. That is a fact accepted by all.

Out of which majority were strike aircrafts heavy armed with munitions to attack ground targets.

If you are really interested in dogfight, you will be pleased to enjoy this, I believe, sire.

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...=JfQkbV02SgEXHWCqdbazoQ&bvm=bv.66330100,d.c2E

 

[FNFAL]

I love the ignore option. I love the personal moderating option of just throw time consuming waste away... Love it.

Silence is a form of consent. I guess we agree to what is shared.

 

[IND151]

I love the ignore option. I love the personal moderating option of just throw time consuming waste away... Love it.



Can afford to what? You're number of squadrons is going down like no other... Hahahahaha. You cannot produce simple delta with the help of everyone. That has nothing to do with can afford but purely not able to do anything. Another one on ignore list.

I just want to add that I do not believe that Pakistani are the best or able to deliver the latest without any effort... But I am shocked to the limitless arrogance of Indian members. Elite or not. They are hardly on earth. Trust me. I do not hate Indians. But the big numbers on the internet are hardly aware that their nation is not able to handle big projects. Lots of hot air. Superb sheets... But in the end they run to Israel, USA, Russia and cry not to deliver Pakistan anything. That is not a superpower to me. That is a spoiled child without brains.

And the fact that we directly jumped from license building second gen jets to develop 4th gen jet on own did help us great, right?

And US was very happy after 1998 and gave us all secrets and learning curves it gained in ATF program, right sire?

And the fact that Jf-17 is JV where Pak, unlike India, did not develop critical avionics like FBW, is very minor, right, 'sire'?

But in the end they run to Israel, USA, Russia and cry not to deliver Pakistan anything.

And we should not worry when you receive help on nuke weapons program?

US objected when Russia tried to give us cryo tech, We were denied the tech.

But we eventually developed the tech and successfully tested GSLV Mk II D 5.

 

[volatile]

My ill-informed friend Even our old MIG21's and Romanian Mig21 Lancers have HMD with BVR capability.The early gen Mig29s/Su27s had the same.

Please provide source (BISON) upgrade when and how.

. In that context BVR was achieved in 1954 with a sparrow 1.

Effective depolyment and true BVR with 70+ KM Range .Not 1-5 Km

DSI is not a big deal. It was first tested in the early 90s and was incorporated in a block 30 F16 waaaaay back in 1996, OF late it appears only in Chinese jets and the F35. Thats it.

Great thats why they waited for F-35 to come up with this Tech .

The basic air-frame and design still has its roots in the cancelled mig single fighter to counter the f16 and then the chinese and american involvement/ Avionics and weapon packages will always surge ahead.And that is the reason why a 1950's mig21 with upgrades and with decent support can hold its own to a certain extent againts a more modern jet

Bla bla sheer frustration no logics .

Coming to the need of jf17, as i had mentioned earlier, that is a poor mans viper that is intended to fulfill at-least 70-80% of a early gen F16 but a reduced price as PAF envisons to replace all obsolete aircraft with this type- that includes the f7pgs and the Mirage roses.

Poor Mans Viper Interesting name/Slogan probably some expert can comment as i belive both are in totally different league .Yes replacement very true.No offense taken ,as your arguments suggested that PAF has wrongly invested in project with no future potential at this stage .I am convinced no other platform offers so much promises for future as JF-17 .Considering Stealth version is on drawing board.(min Capability equivalent to F-16 is just benchmark) true potential hold many more.

Step -1 introduce a fighter which is New/Not reliable/Not Proven. (considering lot have been done in Step-1),Improve Avionics ,Test all avionics/System/Ammunition
Step -2 Improve based on Fighter inputs from Step-1 (put Refulleing probe) Advance weapons/avionics)
Step -3 New Engine /New Avionincs/increased Pay load CFTs.
Step- 4 and you can go on and on


Yar you really are some thing .Thing is we can buy used F-16 as all air forces are retiring these and PAF has capability of keeping birds in air for quite a long time.

NO. But at the same time please do not equate the same with a F16 Block 60 or a Grippen NG. Sab ka limit hota hain yaar

 

[IND151]

I love the ignore option. I love the personal moderating option of just throw time consuming waste away... Love it.



Can afford to what? You're number of squadrons is going down like no other... Hahahahaha. You cannot produce simple delta with the help of everyone. That has nothing to do with can afford but purely not able to do anything. Another one on ignore list.

I just want to add that I do not believe that Pakistani are the best or able to deliver the latest without any effort... But I am shocked to the limitless arrogance of Indian members. Elite or not. They are hardly on earth. Trust me. I do not hate Indians. But the big numbers on the internet are hardly aware that their nation is not able to handle big projects. Lots of hot air. Superb sheets... But in the end they run to Israel, USA, Russia and cry not to deliver Pakistan anything. That is not a superpower to me. That is a spoiled child without brains.

they had some cope India with hardly armed and limited USA planes and start shouting that their mig21 are better.... We flew with PG against F22. Against block60. Against Mirage 2000-9. Hell, even against F15's... Or Ef2000... Do you hear anything directly?

Just tell me whether Jf-17 is JV or not?

You're number of squadrons is going down like no other

Which is a temporary phase which well soon vanish in coming years when Rafales and LCAs start arriving in IAF.

Every air force faces such situation at least once, when it has large percentage of old platforms while new ones are getting inducted at slower place.

What meant is we can afford to wait for Tejas becoming mature enough before it gets inducted, since war is not imminent.

IAF's acceptance standards are high.