No IAF Aircraft reached Balakot

[graphican]

India these days

 

[hellsingfan]

There is new audio of an alleged pilot circulating on WhatsApp (idk how to upload here) which suggests that other downed jet was Indian Mirage C 2000!!

Upload it to someplace and post the link? Or YouTube it?

 

[Khan vilatey]

I am very proud of the operational response the PAF provided to the the IAF on February 26th the scaled increase in our deployments to effectively counter the various decoy that the IAF presented .

Said that i wanted to address the elephant in the room. Our intelligence failure for detecting this attack earlier.
The Indians under the advice of Israeli’s practiced their run. According to the IAF chief This operation was planned after the 40 Indian soldiers were killed and they practiced these runs. Moved armament and pilots for this operation.

the big questions here are:

• Why did we not detect this?
• There were radar and air defence gaps in Kashmir as the CAP took some time to intercept and forcing them to dump their arnement as it took the IAF 3 days to produce before and after pictures and no weapons video were ever produced giving credence to the free fall theory. What can we do to counter these gaps in our air defence?
• And finally what can we do better do we need to invest in more human intelligence, do we need dedicated spy satellites ....etc

kv

 

[PDF]

These have already been discussed in other relevant threads. Seeing the OP, it is better if this is discussed in the following threads.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/air-force-question-thread.10260/
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-air-force-news-discussions.8600/

 

[Khan vilatey]

I felt that this was not directly addressed and if we are to improve as arm chair generals it will help to address this elephant

kv

 

[The Eagle]

I am very proud of the operational response the PAF provided to the the IAF on February 26th the scaled increase in our deployments to effectively counter the various decoy that the IAF presented .

Said that i wanted to address the elephant in the room. Our intelligence failure for detecting this attack earlier.
The Indians under the advice of Israeli’s practiced their run. According to the IAF chief This operation was planned after the 40 Indian soldiers were killed and they practiced these runs. Moved armament and pilots for this operation.

the big questions here are:

• Why did we not detect this?
• There were radar and air defence gaps in Kashmir as the CAP took some time to intercept and forcing them to dump their arnement as it took the IAF 3 days to produce before and after pictures and no weapons video were ever produced giving credence to the free fall theory. What can we do to counter these gaps in our air defence?
• And finally what can we do better do we need to invest in more human intelligence, do we need dedicated spy satellites ....etc

kv

I already told you that instead of opening new threads, try to search through sections and different topics where you will find that such points are already discussed in depth. We don't support a thread based upon few questions from past without your interest to read the topics first. I am hopeful that another reminder wouldn't be needed. Please avoid creating threads for merely asking questions instead, these discussions have already taken place only if you could spend sometime and search through the Forum..

Thread merged.

 

[Khan vilatey]

I already told you that instead of opening new threads, try to search through sections and different topics where you will find that such points are already discussed in depth. We don't support a thread based upon few questions from past without your interest to read the topics first. I am hopeful that another reminder wouldn't be needed. Please avoid creating threads for merely asking questions instead, these discussions have already taken place only if you could spend sometime and search through the Forum..

Thread merged.

Okay so what is your opinion on my questions, what should we have done better in terms of intelligence to be better prepared?

this was a gross intelligence failure on our part. Do the Indians a know about Chinese or our spy satellites crossing over.

why did we not know about this ?

what air defence changes should we do to counter this threat invest in more longer ranged sams. Get further radar coverage in the hilly Kashmir area ...

kv

 

[The Eagle]

Okay so what is your opinion on my questions, what should we have done better in terms of intelligence to be better prepared?

this was a gross intelligence failure on our part. Do the Indians a know about Chinese or our spy satellites crossing over.

why did we not know about this ?

what air defence changes should we do to counter this threat invest in more longer ranged sams. Get further radar coverage in the hilly Kashmir area ...

kv

Stop using VPN or Proxy and share correct flag of your location and then go through the discussion which will really help in regard to understand & collect the answers for all of your "Why". There was no negligence in short, I can say that PAF was aware and been flying sorties to keep them at bay. IAF tried to sneak through almost 6 points and still, PAF detected them in North, intercepted and made them run while they dropped their payload in haste... check out all the official news and the aftermath as well that claimed couple of trees and a crow and a cow in addition. I don't know why you want me or anyone else to repeat all that instead of searching and read by yourself to get updated. REst about our further preparedness; you are not going to have a precise answer but everything is in place to thwart any future aggression similar to past. While speaking of Intelligence, did you check what Gen (Retd) Hamid Gul said long ago way before than Pulwama Drama? that is called intelligence only if you know and read to understand.

 

[litman]

the purpose of long range guided bombs and missiles is that they can be launched at their target from a relatively safer distance. if indians had to come to balakot to destroy targets in balakot then they could have used general purpose bombs. why the sophisticated guided bombs? indian claims are devoid of any logic and reasoning. they are nothing but shameless liars.

 

[Khan vilatey]

Stop using VPN or Proxy and share correct flag of your location and then go through the discussion which will really help in regard to understand & collect the answers for all of your "Why". There was no negligence in short, I can say that PAF was aware and been flying sorties to keep them at bay. IAF tried to sneak through almost 6 points and still, PAF detected them in North, intercepted and made them run while they dropped their payload in haste... check out all the official news and the aftermath as well that claimed couple of trees and a crow and a cow in addition. I don't know why you want me or anyone else to repeat all that instead of searching and read by yourself to get updated. REst about our further preparedness; you are not going to have a precise answer but everything is in place to thwart any future aggression similar to past. While speaking of Intelligence, did you check what Gen (Retd) Hamid Gul said long ago way before than Pulwama Drama? that is called intelligence only if you know and read to understand.

Stop using VPN or Proxy and share correct flag of your location and then go through the discussion which will really help in regard to understand & collect the answers for all of your "Why". There was no negligence in short, I can say that PAF was aware and been flying sorties to keep them at bay. IAF tried to sneak through almost 6 points and still, PAF detected them in North, intercepted and made them run while they dropped their payload in haste... check out all the official news and the aftermath as well that claimed couple of trees and a crow and a cow in addition. I don't know why you want me or anyone else to repeat all that instead of searching and read by yourself to get updated. REst about our further preparedness; you are not going to have a precise answer but everything is in place to thwart any future aggression similar to past. While speaking of Intelligence, did you check what Gen (Retd) Hamid Gul said long ago way before than Pulwama Drama? that is called intelligence only if you know and read to understand.

I will change the flag as I Am home and not traveling for work. I will change it in the evening as I can’t do this with my phone for some odd reason

I have so far not found a single thread that speaks to Pakistan’s intelligence failure and our failure to detect these aircraft till they came so many Miles inside Pakistan.

We did an above par job when challenged operationally but when it comes to intelligence and detection we need to address our gaps for next time.

if we did detected these 12 planes earlier a few would have been shot down.

kv

 

[masterchief_mirza]

our failure to detect these aircraft till they came so many Miles inside Pakistan.

They have no actual need to come into Pakistani airspace to fire at numerous critical Pakistani targets. Your criticism is only valid to a certain degree and in reality, there is no point in investing heavily to try and thwart all aerial territorial transgressions. We're not some island that can actually achieve this. On the contrary, a rapid reaction and guaranteed retaliation is the most cost effective deterrence against a country that could literally stand and deliver from their own territory.

The entry into Pakistani airspace was an attempt to make a political point. Of course, it failed as a strategy because Pakistan can equally well stand and deliver from Pakistani territory also, and moreover, we made the exact same political statement by entering their airspace territory at will. It is either impossible or needlessly expensive/wasteful to attempt to have the equipment in place to stop any incursion forcefully at every point of our border.

(Note: the above suggestion applies to airspace only; ground incursions can and should be halted/resisted at every location they may arise).

 

[Khan vilatey]

They have no actual need to come into Pakistani airspace to fire at numerous critical Pakistani targets. Your criticism is only valid to a certain degree and in reality, there is no point in investing heavily to try and thwart all aerial territorial transgressions. We're not some island that can actually achieve this. On the contrary, a rapid reaction and guaranteed retaliation is the most cost effective deterrence against a country that could literally stand and deliver from their own territory.

The entry into Pakistani airspace was an attempt to make a political point. Of course, it failed as a strategy because Pakistan can equally well stand and deliver from Pakistani territory also, and moreover, we made the exact same political statement by entering their airspace territory at will. It is either impossible or needlessly expensive/wasteful to attempt to have the equipment in place to stop any incursion forcefully at every point of our border.

(Note: the above suggestion applies to airspace only; ground incursions can and should be halted/resisted at every location they may arise).

I agree, our operational response was awesome! The fact we had so many aircraft up that we scared away a flight of 12 mirages is commendable.

the gap is that
1) we did not get enough human or satellite intelligence warning to plan a trap for them. Even though we were alert! Something we need to work on. As eagle said in Hamid Guls tenure he had access to intelligence before the Indian general saw it. We need to be more aggressive about this.

2) on the 27th we had awacs in the air which allowed us to trap the Indians and shoot them down. What have we done to address gaps outside of the publicly known movement of the fd-60 battery. We need more radars and possibly 5-10 hq-9 batteries to create layered air defence in Pakistan. This will free up more aircraft for strike roles Incase of aggression.

Your input is welcome
Kv

 

[masterchief_mirza]

I agree, our operational response was awesome! The fact we had so many aircraft up that we scared away a flight of 12 mirages is commendable.

the gap is that
1) we did not get enough human or satellite intelligence warning to plan a trap for them. Even though we were alert! Something we need to work on. As eagle said in Hamid Guls tenure he had access to intelligence before the Indian general saw it. We need to be more aggressive about this.

2) on the 27th we had awacs in the air which allowed us to trap the Indians and shoot them down. What have we done to address gaps outside of the publicly known movement of the fd-60 battery. We need more radars and possibly 5-10 hq-9 batteries to create layered air defence in Pakistan. This will free up more aircraft for strike roles Incase of aggression.

Your input is welcome
Kv

Fair points. Unfortunately I can't answer your specific questions regarding particular hardware acquisitions as I'm not an expert in that field.

 

[ziaulislam]

balakot is just 48 kms from LOC, SPICE has range of 60+ km, india ingressed for few seconds and few miles and left immediately after launching its SPICE..i doubt we even knew what hapened

there is literally nothing you can do to stop india from launching an attack..
the thing is what you can do afterward...
no amount of SAMs will prevent in as you won't be targetting them within india

I agree, our operational response was awesome! The fact we had so many aircraft up that we scared away a flight of 12 mirages is commendable.

the gap is that
1) we did not get enough human or satellite intelligence warning to plan a trap for them. Even though we were alert! Something we need to work on. As eagle said in Hamid Guls tenure he had access to intelligence before the Indian general saw it. We need to be more aggressive about this.

2) on the 27th we had awacs in the air which allowed us to trap the Indians and shoot them down. What have we done to address gaps outside of the publicly known movement of the fd-60 battery. We need more radars and possibly 5-10 hq-9 batteries to create layered air defence in Pakistan. This will free up more aircraft for strike roles Incase of aggression.

Your input is welcome
Kv

 

[Trango Towers]

They have reached close to their target but fails to hit it at Jabba (Balakot) not just 3 or 4 kms brother, accept PAF's stance of no fighting with India since Kargill.

PAF had a history of favoring India, Asghar Khan informed India in 60s that Pakistan is going to launch an attack to their counterpart.

Looooool. No words necessary