No company can surpass Huawei 5G tech in 2/3 yrs, but Huawei can surpass US chip tech if we want

[sinait]

LoL. Many Asian countries have far better relations with US and the West than with China.

If China is so interested in Asian solidarity, why does it keep pushing Asian countries around?

Your frustration sounds a lot like what Japanese would have thought during the WW2 when they were invading Asia and yet appealing to some kind of Asian brotherhood.

Sure, sound so much like when the DESPICABLE INDIANS AID THEIR WHITE MASTER in SUBJUGATING their fellow Asians.

https://www.bbc.com/teach/class-cli...dia-so-valuable-to-the-british-empire/zv2rwty
Why was India so valuable to the British Empire?

Indian troops helped the British control their empire, and they played a key role in fighting for Britain right up to the 20th century.
WHITE SUPREMACY LACKEYS.
.

 

[Viet]

We do have our own chip cores you know, chip cores are just design based not hardware based, you can't really stop Huawei from producing it if they wanted too. I am just afraid of TSMC.

Who is “we”?
Huawei CPU bases on ARM designs. Without ARM, Huawei can’t make CPU.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Hey let's be real, of course there will be short term pain. But for Huawei to fall? You need to understand China is the largest telco market not the US. The smaller guys might use Android and Arm for exports, but what about the domestic market? China gov can now classify Android and Arm as national security threat, they won't annnounce it but it is bound to happen. It's not us banning their tech now, it's them banning it from us, no choice but to adapt right? Previously we are bound by open trade principles so we can't ban Android and Arm, now it's them telling us to ban them.

Chinese normally do things quietly. You won't know it until you are killed.

Well, some things can't be done silently.

There are millions of Android developers in China and hundreds of companies. You will have to force them to develop for an indigenous chinese ISA and OS. This can't be done if they don't have HUGE incentives. And the only one that I can think of is when China bans ARM and Android from China. Otherwise ARM and Android will never let China's own ecosystem of ISA and OS takeoff.

China has tried developing its own OS and ISA before but it didn't work because there was no body willing to spend time developing it and its ecosystem.

 

[Han Patriot]

Well, some things can't be done silently.

There are millions of Android developers in China and hundreds of companies. You will have to force them to develop for an indigenous chinese ISA and OS. This can't be done if they don't have HUGE incentives. And the only one that I can think of is when China bans ARM and Android from China. Otherwise ARM and Android will never let China's own ecosystem of ISA and OS takeoff.

China has tried developing its own OS and ISA before but it didn't work because there was no body willing to spend time developing it and its ecosystem.

I can't predict the future, but China surprised people many many times before. When we started to build our HSR, Indians laughed, when we sent a man to space Indians laughed, when we said we will build.our own supercomputer with our own CPU and become the fastest on earth, Indians laughed, when we say we will have quantum comm, Indians laughed. You can laugh or dismiss, it doesn't matter. We are used to it. Let time prove our worth. Huawei was a nobody 10 years ago, DJI was a toy plane, Haier nearly got swallowed by GE in the 90s. You underestimate the will of the Chinese people. We crossed a whole plateau to invade India. Can you imagined today's China 10 or 5 years ago? Iflytek have some of the best voice recognition algorithms on earth, megvii for image. Why do you think they got banned? Does it matter?

Who is “we”?
Huawei CPU bases on ARM designs. Without ARM, Huawei can’t make CPU.

Ahhh you don't know eh. Technically we still can make those chips even without arm, we are just respecting their IP hence we pay them royalty.

 

[antonius123]

Well, some things can't be done silently.

There are millions of Android developers in China and hundreds of companies. You will have to force them to develop for an indigenous chinese ISA and OS. This can't be done if they don't have HUGE incentives. And the only one that I can think of is when China bans ARM and Android from China. Otherwise ARM and Android will never let China's own ecosystem of ISA and OS takeoff.

China has tried developing its own OS and ISA before but it didn't work because there was no body willing to spend time developing it and its ecosystem.

This is about egg and chicken matter in the "OPEN and FREE Market".

Developer wont spend their efforts in developing Apps for new OS with little users, and the new OS will remain weak since most developer are not interested.

But in regulated market where Government only allows the new OS and forbid/alleviate tax on Android, then developers will race to build Apps for the new OS then the new OS will be matured in meteoritical speed.

 

[武成王]

Huawei has permanent license of ARM v8 architecture, the ban wont's stop Huawei to develop its own ARM implementation based on v8 spec. It is a big wake up call for Chinese tech firms not only limiting to semiconductor sectors that China need speed up on indigenous technology development, otherwise sooner or later, there will be such ban whenever their western competitors feel severe threats. I still emphasize that China need invest more in open source community like Linux and RISC-V etc fundamental platforms. The benefit of open source is that it can be widely accepted and without the hurdles of trust and patent, meanwhile it's a leverage of global talents to reduce burden of a single specific company. China already get started to invest a lot in RISC-V although China have its own MIPS, SPARC, PPC and x86 implementation. In long the run, I hope RISC-V will grow into a "Linux of open source CPU", all startups of semiconductors from any country can freely sell their design and implementation based on RISC-V common spec without enduring threats involving geopolitical fight.

 

[Han Patriot]

You can underestimate the capability of the Chinese, never underestimate their will.

 

[Placemat]

While i support huawei statements like this i have to facepalm. If you could have,you would have

 

[Han Patriot]

While i support huawei statements like this i have to facepalm. If you could have,you would have

Well let's see. If they can't they will perish, simple economic rules.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

This is about egg and chicken matter in the "OPEN and FREE Market".

Developer wont spend their efforts in developing Apps for new OS with little users, and the new OS will remain weak since most developer are not interested.

But in regulated market where Government only allows the new OS and forbid/alleviate tax on Android, then developers will race to build Apps for the new OS then the new OS will be matured in meteoritical speed.

That is exactly what I was saying. @Han Patriot

 

[Paul2]

> How will Huawei own chips survive without ARM license?

Spit on that licensing and tapeout chips any way? What will US do? Invade Taiwan to shut down TSMC =D? Haha

 

[Han Patriot]

That is exactly what I was saying. @Han Patriot

Agreed. But you have to understand, China has the power of diktat. And Google and Arm is giving us a very big excuse to do that. Imagine a unified China OS and ISA. Currently only government and military using Kylin OS and Chinese cores. Imagine this scenario, all Android is banned, users are to upgrade to new XXX OS which is compatible to Android due to Linux heritage. Use of mirroring feature of the app store due to same heritage.

For time being, we use arm cores since it's already licensed:

1) Use appropriation laws to take over ARM ISA, since it's just codes anyway and create our own microarchitecture.

2) Use domestic ISA like Unity ISA and create own microarchitecture.

3) Use both approach, one for short term solution, one for long term solution.

I am more worried about TSMC than having OS and ARM.

 

[onebyone]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1131484989407862784

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Agreed. But you have to understand, China has the power of diktat. And Google and Arm is giving us a very big excuse to do that. Imagine a unified China OS and ISA. Currently only government and military using Kylin OS and Chinese cores. Imagine this scenario, all Android is banned, users are to upgrade to new XXX OS which is compatible to Android due to Linux heritage. Use of mirroring feature of the app store due to same heritage.

For time being, we use arm cores since it's already licensed:

1) Use appropriation laws to take over ARM ISA, since it's just codes anyway and create our own microarchitecture.

2) Use domestic ISA like Unity ISA and create own microarchitecture.

3) Use both approach, one for short term solution, one for long term solution.

I am more worried about TSMC than having OS and ARM.

I think taking over ARM ISA will face many issues:

1. A lot of the information on an ISA, its accompanying services are not patented or out in the open necessary. ARM provides a lot of assistance to integrate the cores into chip designs. So this assistance would be banned.
2. Future ARM iterations will be very hard to source and implement.
3. The BIGGEST point: Since ARM IP will still be valid elsewhere, you can't send your material in the border of that country or else it will be seized. So Huawei won't be able to send its chips to TSMC in Taiwan, because its chips will be infringing on Taiwanese patents of ARM. Similar for South Korea.
4. Apart from that, and following from 3. You will NEVER be able to sell your products out of China.

So better is to start from scratch and get your ISA and OS running, and then build an ecosystem around it.

The right approach would be to first spend 2 years on building a good ISA and basic OS with some very essential apps. (While ARM and Android are still allowed in China.)

Then BAN ARM and Android, and FORCE your developers, companies, etc. to build the supporting ecosystem.

 

[Han Patriot]

I think taking over ARM ISA will face many issues:

1. A lot of the information on an ISA, its accompanying services are not patented or out in the open necessary. ARM provides a lot of assistance to integrate the cores into chip designs. So this assistance would be banned.
2. Future ARM iterations will be very hard to source and implement.
3. The BIGGEST point: Since ARM IP will still be valid elsewhere, you can't send your material in the border of that country or else it will be seized. So Huawei won't be able to send its chips to TSMC in Taiwan, because its chips will be infringing on Taiwanese patents of ARM. Similar for South Korea.
4. Apart from that, and following from 3. You will NEVER be able to sell your products out of China.

So better is to start from scratch and get your ISA and OS running, and then build an ecosystem around it.

The right approach would be to first spend 2 years on building a good ISA and basic OS with some very essential apps. (While ARM and Android are still allowed in China.)

Then BAN ARM and Android, and FORCE your developers, companies, etc. to build the supporting ecosystem.

Agreed. That would be the ideal case. Actually the ISA issue is still safe for at least the next few years since it's still licenced to China.

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/reg...n-firm-arm-has-cut-business-ties-says-analys/