Featured No Buyers For Rafale Jets: Why Almost Every Country Dumped French Rafales Except India?

[Beast]

What kind of analysis is this ?

There are several factors playing in the choice of a fighter jet.... Each air force has specific needs and different requirements,some need heavy fighters,others light or medium ones,some need air superiority fighters,others multirole ones etc. There are also several factors playing such as economy and of course politics.

Economically the Rafale didn't benefit from economy of scale as during several years only the French air force acquired it and in quite "small quantities". (180 ordered yet) Many countries rejected it because they considered it to be quite an expensive fighter,to buy and to maintain taking into account their disposable budget. The Rafale outperformed the Gripen and Eurofighter in Switzerland,yet the Swiss went with the Gripen.

Politics can also play a big part in the choice of a fighter and not purely based on the fighter,its price and performances. Morocco chose the Rafale before going with F16s due to US pressures for exemple. One among many others.

There's also another reason which isn't mentioned is we were very bad at marketing,French politicians also torpedoed every breakthrough in negociations Dassault made,something that was fatal in many countries.

While people boast about the Chinese jets on this forum,how many,outside China bought the J10 for exemple ? Does that mean it's a bad jet ?

Despite what people say,the Rafale is the best choice India could have made. Not only for its performances but also politically,France will always back India no matter what..... Very small chances of French sanctions on India,or halting supplies to support the Rafale fleet,no matter what...
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Let's explain the third million time to people who think "muh India bought a $300 million jet".

According to the French government,the flyaway cost of a Rafale as of economic conditions of 2014 was as follow ;

€78M for a Rafale M (Naval version)
€73M for a Rafale B (Two seater)
€68M for a Rafale C (Single seat)

The €8 billion package India paid includes offsets (half of that cost,invested back in India),training,new infrastructures to induct a new type of aircrafts into the Indian air force,maintenance packages..... undisclosed number of air to ground bombs and air to air missiles,key Indian demands regarding the integration of specific weapons and systems etc.

J-10 is not keen to be exported by PLAAF unlike France try asking every nation to buy Rafale.

The number of J-10 produced in China are enough to keen per unit low. There are more than 550units of J-10 produced.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

The 'striction' Indians are still crying about from Feb 27?

We never cry for sucg a very small incident but just correcting BS claims of both countries..

 

[Vergennes]

Proof that French are great salesmen while Indians are low IQ idiots.

Not only French have succeeded in selling a 20 year old archaic fighter at an exorbitant price but also is able to force their failed Falcon business jet on the India in the name of offsets.

Low IQ Indians are really gullible.

Current Rafale variants F3R and future F4 (and others) are nothing to compare to the first Rafales that entered service in 2004. Similar to an F16 block 15 is nothing to compare to an F16 block 70/72 for exemple.

If Indian military procurement process wasn't so slow or chaotic,the IAF would have several Rafale squadrons active as of now.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Ironically eurasian times is owned by Mukesh Ambani !

Wow! wasn't aware of that

 

[HalfMoon]

Current Rafale variants F3R and future F4 (and others) are nothing to compare to the first Rafales that entered service in 2004. Similar to an F16 block 15 is nothing to compare to an F16 block 70/72 for exemple.

If Indian military procurement process wasn't so slow or chaotic,the IAF would have several Rafale squadrons active as of now.

Exactly. F-16 block 70/72 can be bought at the quarter of the price of the Rafale's F3R/F4 with Made in India.

US is willing to transfer the whole production line to India while France is not even willing to make Rafale parts as part of the offsets. All you have is a failed project called Falcon business jet.

This is nothing but day light robbery where French are selling their snake oil but don't worry Modi will keep buying it for his master Ambani.

 

[HalfMoon]

Wow! wasn't aware of that

80% of the Indian news media is owned by the Ambanis.

 

[Mighty Lion]

Epic fail of a thread.
EFT has been exported to only 5 countries (Austria, KSA, Qatar, Oman, Kuwait).
Whereas Rafale exported to Egypt, Qatar and India.
So not a huge difference.

 

[rent4country]

The way the Indians are worshipping the Rafael makes the plane more fit to belong in a shrine or a museum than an airbase.

It's a highly capable aircraft, and short of the American F35 & F22, I'd say the most lethal aircraft in the market.
I'd be curious to read your thoughts on which other Chinese aircraft, currently within your countries inventory, you'd recommend Pakistan should consider as an additional platform to counter the Rafale?

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

Indians are very smart my friend, they know very well that Pakistan doesn't have money to buy top of the line fighter jets for example Eurofighter, F-35. F-18 etc nor anyone offer to Pakistan because of "Muslim" tag. So what Pakistan can actually do with its limited number of resources and budget? obviously try to grab western avionics when it comes to fighter jets. Which country has the capability, capacity, and experiences of the manufacturing world's best avionics and third party mil hardware? as far as I know France other than Americans and Russians. So, by signing this deal India has blocked the 2nd option for Pakistan in terms of avionics and we had witnessed in JF17 thunder case.

Hint: The mid-life upgradation of PN 90B contract signed btw Pakistan and "TURKEY" not France
bye bye French!

Indians havent at all thought this out in such detail. This was yet another haphazard procurement in the long list of Indian defence procurements.
...
This might only be an indirect consequence.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

Rafales are a game changer for India(read me)-Anil Ambani



Will Anil Ambani’s Fortune Change With The Arrival Of Rafale Jets?

https://eurasiantimes.com/anil-ambanis-fortunes-to-change-with-the-arrival-of-rafale-jets/

 

[21st Century Vampire]

As reported earlier by EurAsian Times, Russian aviation experts had claimed that Rafale jets would have been useless against the Chinese Airforce (PLAAF). The maximum speed of the Rafale jet is about Mach 1.8 compared to Chinese J-16s at Mach 2.2. The Rafale’s practical ceiling is also lower than the J-16s. Even in engine thrust, the Chinese J-16s aka Russian Su-35s are far superior to the French combat aircraft. Even if the Indian Air Force (IAF) was to deploy all 36 of its newly acquired jets, the technical superiority would still be on the side of China, claimed the Russian expert.

Nice article but that part isn't too important in BVR, the biggest hindrance will be the costs and the numerical disadvantage and probably in terms of capabilities itself it will be (less than) obsolete in a couple of years compared to what the chinese shall bring on the table

@PAKISTANFOREVER @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan interesting article

What kind of analysis is this ?

There are several factors playing in the choice of a fighter jet.... Each air force has specific needs and different requirements,some need heavy fighters,others light or medium ones,some need air superiority fighters,others multirole ones etc. There are also several factors playing such as economy and of course politics.

Economically the Rafale didn't benefit from economy of scale as during several years only the French air force acquired it and in quite "small quantities". (180 ordered yet) Many countries rejected it because they considered it to be quite an expensive fighter,to buy and to maintain taking into account their disposable budget. The Rafale outperformed the Gripen and Eurofighter in Switzerland,yet the Swiss went with the Gripen.

Politics can also play a big part in the choice of a fighter and not purely based on the fighter,its price and performances. Morocco chose the Rafale before going with F16s due to US pressures for exemple. One among many others.

There's also another reason which isn't mentioned is we were very bad at marketing,French politicians also torpedoed every breakthrough in negociations Dassault made,something that was fatal in many countries.

While people boast about the Chinese jets on this forum,how many,outside China bought the J10 for exemple ? Does that mean it's a bad jet ?

Despite what people say,the Rafale is the best choice India could have made. Not only for its performances but also politically,France will always back India no matter what..... Very small chances of French sanctions on India,or halting supplies to support the Rafale fleet,no matter what...
-
Let's explain the third million time to people who think "muh India bought a $300 million jet".

According to the French government,the flyaway cost of a Rafale as of economic conditions of 2014 was as follow ;

€78M for a Rafale M (Naval version)
€73M for a Rafale B (Two seater)
€68M for a Rafale C (Single seat)

The €8 billion package India paid includes offsets (half of that cost,invested back in India),training,new infrastructures to induct a new type of aircrafts into the Indian air force,maintenance packages..... undisclosed number of air to ground bombs and air to air missiles,key Indian demands regarding the integration of specific weapons and systems etc.

You criticized the analysis and then proceeded to literally repeat most of the article

 

[HalfMoon]

Epic fail of a thread.
EFT has been exported to only 5 countries (Austria, KSA, Qatar, Oman, Kuwait).
Whereas Rafale exported to Egypt, Qatar and India.
So not a huge difference.

LoL

To understand Epic fail first you need to understand what success looks like.

And this is how success looks like.

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-u...erational F-16s,service today in 25 countries.

 

[nahtanbob]

Indians are very smart my friend, they know very well that Pakistan doesn't have money to buy top of the line fighter jets for example Eurofighter, F-35. F-18 etc nor anyone offer to Pakistan because of "Muslim" tag. So what Pakistan can actually do with its limited number of resources and budget? obviously try to grab western avionics when it comes to fighter jets. Which country has the capability, capacity, and experiences of the manufacturing world's best avionics and third party mil hardware? as far as I know France other than Americans and Russians. So, by signing this deal India has blocked the 2nd option for Pakistan in terms of avionics and we had witnessed in JF17 thunder case.

Hint: The mid-life upgradation of PN 90B contract signed btw Pakistan and "TURKEY" not France
bye bye French!

Eurofighter Typhoon was sold to Saudi Arabia, a Muslim state. It is not an option for Pakistan because of the price tag

 

[nomi007]

Rafale is good aircraft, but the price much high.
Chinese have good number of aircrafts and they also developed long-range missiles for their aircrafts like PL-15.
On the other side, PAF have 75 F-16s sooner or later they will get Block V upgrades or even get Turkish upgrade for their fleet. In 2021 we will have most probably 24 JF-17 block 03 aircraft, block 3 is a highly capable aircraft.
On more thing we have very good relations with Qatar, our airforce already examine the Qatari Rafales.
so Endian is in big trouble.

 

[nahtanbob]

Exactly. F-16 block 70/72 can be bought at the quarter of the price of the Rafale's F3R/F4 with Made in India.

that is not exactly true

$8 billion for 66 jets
https://thediplomat.com/2019/08/us-moves-ahead-with-8-billion-f-16-fighter-jets-sale-to-taiwan/

$1.26 billion for 8 jets
https://www.defensenews.com/global/...lks-away-from-126-billion-deal-for-f-16-jets/

$1.8 billion for 14 jets
https://www.thedefensepost.com/2019/08/01/lockheed-slovakia-f-16-contract/