Nirbhay cruise missile to be tested by next month finally

[PoKeMon]

Crystal ball might go up in smoke when it takes into account an equally smoky history of Indian Missile program. (the going up in smoke type smoky)

Dont worry, it will not show chinese or N. korean cities if one ask it to show pakistan missile tests.

 

[Indo-guy]

We have nothing to prove and we are/were guessing.

What is the design and parameters of Nirbhay which are similar to Babur and tomahawk[/quote]

Everybody knows that Babur and Tomahawk parameters are quite similar ..except the ran ( Babur has lower rane due to poor efficiency of its Chinese engine )

Specs of Nirbhay are quite different from Babur or Tomahawk ...

 

[Bratva]

We have nothing to prove and we are/were guessing.

What is the design and parameters of Nirbhay which are similar to Babur and tomahawk

Everybody knows that Babur and Tomahawk parameters are quite similar ..except the ran ( Babur has lower rane due to poor efficiency of its Chinese engine )

Specs of Nirbhay are quite different from Babur or Tomahawk ...[/quote]

Oh how so?

 

[Indo-guy]

Everybody knows that Babur and Tomahawk parameters are quite similar ..except the ran ( Babur has lower rane due to poor efficiency of its Chinese engine )

Specs of Nirbhay are quite different from Babur or Tomahawk ...

Oh how so?[/quote]

well I retract my statement .
Specs do not seem to be vastly different .

But their capabilities are quite different ....

Babur has max range of 700 km ( if I am not wrong )
Nirbhay has stated range of +1000 km .
Tomahawk has range of maximum 2500 km....


Babur's lower range despite similar mass to Tomahwak is due to low efficiency of its engine ( supposedly Chinese revere engineered variant of Russian engine )

 

[skysthelimit]

Does anybody what is the Terminal Guidance mechanism for Nirbhay? Or is it Inertial navigation throughout?

 

[Indo-guy]

Does anybody what is the Terminal Guidance mechanism for Nirbhay? Or is it Inertial navigation throughout?

Does anybody what is the Terminal Guidance mechanism for Nirbhay? Or is it Inertial navigation throughout?

I am just copy pasting pics from threads from other websites ....

 

[Bratva]

I am just copy pasting pics from threads from other websites ....

RF seeker in LACM ??????

INS and TERCOM provides initial and mid flight guidance. DSMAC provides terminal guidance not an RF seeker.

 

[trident2010]

Best of luck !!

 

[Daedalus]

Does anybody what is the Terminal Guidance mechanism for Nirbhay? Or is it Inertial navigation throughout?

Dont know how reliable the source is

The missile is guided by INS/GPS with an active-radar terminal seeker.

Nirbhay | Missile ThreatMissile Threat

 

[Omega007]

RF seeker in LACM ??????

INS and TERCOM provides initial and mid flight guidance. DSMAC provides terminal guidance not an RF seeker.

It depends strictly on the user what method they want to use for a particular purpose.In this case Pakistan has chosen DSMAC,India chose to use SAR seekers.
Yes these are RF SAR seekers and not the kind of regular RF seekers used in Anti ship cruise missiles.I hope you know what SAR means.But still let me explain the rational behind this.
You see,in DSMAC,you feed the missile's guidance computer with pre reckoned images of the target and the an onboard camera on the missile takes images of the target and the guidance computer then correlates the pictures with the prefed images.
Now Nirbhay LACM also uses a similar technique that it correlates SAR imagery with the prefed target images.Only difference is,in older DSMAC method you use a camera......instead in this case we use a SAR seeker.
A SAR seeker has several key advantages over a camera like for example:
1.The efficacy of a camera or any other optical sensor is significantly degraded in cloudy or adverse weather but weather has got very little effect on SAR.
2.A camera can be fooled by using smoke,aerosaul or optical camouflage systems,but a SAR can not be fooled that way.


Several Indian companies like Datapatterns and VEM Electronics in collaboration with the LRDE has developed a range of SAR seekers for Prithvi 3,Prahaar and Shaurya NLOS BSMs,Brahmos 1 LACM variants and subsonic cruise missiles.

 

[HariPrasad]

Nirbhay has Loitering capability like Tomahawk cruise.

 

[Indo-guy]

It depends strictly on the user what method they want to use for a particular purpose.In this case Pakistan has chosen DSMAC,India chose to use SAR seekers.
Yes these are RF SAR seekers and not the kind of regular RF seekers used in Anti ship cruise missiles.I hope you know what SAR means.But still let me explain the rational behind this.
You see,in DSMAC,you feed the missile's guidance computer with pre reckoned images of the target and the an onboard camera on the missile takes images of the target and the guidance computer then correlates the pictures with the prefed images.
Now Nirbhay LACM also uses a similar technique that it correlates SAR imagery with the prefed target images.Only difference is,in older DSMAC method you use a camera......instead in this case we use a SAR seeker.
A SAR seeker has several key advantages over a camera like for example:
1.The efficacy of a camera or any other optical sensor is significantly degraded in cloudy or adverse weather but weather has got very little effect on SAR.
2.A camera can be fooled by using smoke,aerosaul or optical camouflage systems,but a SAR can not be fooled that way.

So you see,it's not something to laugh at.Just because you do not use it or (rather can't given the fact that Pakistan still can not develop radars or seekers on its own) doesn't mean it's a bad idea or it can not be made to work out successfully.
Several Indian companies like Datapatterns and VEM Electronics in collaboration with the LRDE has developed a range of SAR seekers for Prithvi 3,Prahaar and Shaurya NLOS BSMs,Brahmos 1 LACM variants and subsonic cruise missiles.

Thanks a lot for this information .
Cleared lots of doubts I had ...


This is what Mr Prasun Sen Gupta had said on his blog in response to similar query


Query - "
In the pics you posted here there is evidence of Inertial guidance,there is evidence of gps+glonass integration..But no evidence of TERCOM and DSMAC the two most important technologies for a cruise missile...
There is a picture of an active radar seeker..Why would a land attack Cruise missile need an active radar seeker? wont it compromise the stealth a cruise missile relies on? "

" TERCOM & DSMAC are techniques, and not hardware. Check out any schematic of a TLAM & you will come across a piece of hardware called DSMAC illuminator, i.e. an RF-based sensor. All cruise missiles have active on-board sensors, be they SAR-based sensors or radar altimeter. It is these two sensors that make it possible to make use of TERCOM & DSMAC techniques for evading hostile air-defence networks (as the visuals I’ve posted above of the 3M-14E LACM shows). Consequently, the only way one can detect & track the flight profile of inbound cruise missiles is by acquiring passive surveillance ELINT systems (PSES). That is precisely why Pakistan, after the August 1998 TLAM strikes in Afghanistan, acquired two VERA-E PSES units on a lease-to-purchase scheme from the Czech Republic. Therefore, if anyone wants to know where Pakistan’s nuclear weapons are stored in peacetime, then one has to look out for & located the deployed VERA-E PSES units. "

 

[Indo-guy]

It depends strictly on the user what method they want to use for a particular purpose.In this case Pakistan has chosen DSMAC,India chose to use SAR seekers.
Yes these are RF SAR seekers and not the kind of regular RF seekers used in Anti ship cruise missiles.I hope you know what SAR means.But still let me explain the rational behind this.
You see,in DSMAC,you feed the missile's guidance computer with pre reckoned images of the target and the an onboard camera on the missile takes images of the target and the guidance computer then correlates the pictures with the prefed images.
Now Nirbhay LACM also uses a similar technique that it correlates SAR imagery with the prefed target images.Only difference is,in older DSMAC method you use a camera......instead in this case we use a SAR seeker.
A SAR seeker has several key advantages over a camera like for example:
1.The efficacy of a camera or any other optical sensor is significantly degraded in cloudy or adverse weather but weather has got very little effect on SAR.
2.A camera can be fooled by using smoke,aerosaul or optical camouflage systems,but a SAR can not be fooled that way.

So you see,it's not something to laugh at.Just because you do not use it or (rather can't given the fact that Pakistan still can not develop radars or seekers on its own) doesn't mean it's a bad idea or it can not be made to work out successfully.
Several Indian companies like Datapatterns and VEM Electronics in collaboration with the LRDE has developed a range of SAR seekers for Prithvi 3,Prahaar and Shaurya NLOS BSMs,Brahmos 1 LACM variants and subsonic cruise missiles.

Similarly to this particular query Mr Prasun gave this particular reply ...quite informative !

" None of the world’s long-range cruise missiles use IR seekers. They all use RF sensors that making use of DSMAC techniques. Even the BrahMos uses such RF sensors & DSMAC techniques for inertial navigation & terminal homing"



" Optical co-relation & scene matching technique is used ONLY by man-in-the-loop guidance systems of the type used by PGMs like Taurus KEPD-350, Delilah, Popeye, Spice, etc. Here, a two-way data-link transmits the image of the target constantly to the launch-aircraft’s pilot, which means that the missiles are NOT autonomous but are guided all through their flight profile by human intervention. Cruise missiles like Nirbhay, CJ-10, TLAM, Babur, etc on the other hand make use of active on-board RF sensors—SAR seeker—for terrain profiling & then using the scene-matching technique by comparing the profile of the scanned image with those that are stored in the cruise missile’s on-board mission computer (these images being obtained earlier by SAR sensors mounted on various recce platforms). That’s why on TLAMs there’s always an avionics LRM called DSMAC illuminator, i.e. an active RF sensor. In this arena, the Soviets were the technological pioneers. DSAMAC illuminator is by no means an optronic sensor as many would like to believe or assume.
1-metre accuracy has never been attained to date by any autonomous cruise missile, but only by those man-in-the-loop tactical PGMs making use of IR sensors & two-way data-links. Even the BrahMos-1 has 3-metre accuracy thanks to its on-board SAR seeker making use of DSMAC technique. For nuclear-armed Nirbhay, even a 100-metre accuracy is excellent, given the fact that its nuclear warhead will be highly destructive. "

 

[manojb]

RF seeker in LACM ??????

INS and TERCOM provides initial and mid flight guidance. DSMAC provides terminal guidance not an RF seeker.

I think this has been asked by safriz and answered! Nirbhay Cruise Missile Family Finally Revealed! | Page 7


Edited: indo-guy answered above

 

[Indo-guy]

I think this has been asked by safriz and answered! Nirbhay Cruise Missile Family Finally Revealed! | Page 7


Edited: indo-guy answered above

Safriz the chutiya actually ... to be accurate !