next lal masjid ?masood azhar madrasa bahawalpur

[s.k]

first point laal masjid afghan jihad ko support kar raha tha kashmir jihad ko nahi so there will be no action againt this compound coz they are good taliban

 

[Zarvan]

Well, it is because of the ignorance of people like you who claim to know Islam but in reality clueless about Islam and its history and the seerat of Mohammed (PBUH). Muslims were being tortured and persecuted in Mekkah but Mohammed did not wage war? Not until the time was right and his house was in order. What the hell are you talking about? I'll politely suggest you not to make mockery of yourself. Your statements are giving very wrong impression about Islam.

Their was no order of Jihad in Makkah. Jihad was made compulsory in Madinah and after that their were several wars every year and increased by every year. Sorry but now their are 57 Muslim states can't wait for every country to get in order and as Muslim lands are under occupation for example Palestine and Kashmir and Chechnya its duty of Muslim states to declare Jihad their failure is biggest boost to militant groups. Your denial will not change reality .

 

[TankMan]

You interpreted "him" as ruler.... Other interpret it "leader of group"...It can be small.....Different interpretation by different Fiqah. That's it!

No, I interpreted ''a Muslim ruler'' as a ruler. Read the Hadith again. This is backed even further by the point that half the strength of the enemy is required to begin an armed struggle. Can a small group have half the strength to win against an oppressing state? Not very likely. Therefore, this 'different interpretation' is flawed.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Can a small group have half the strength to win against an oppressing state? Not very likely. Therefore, this 'different interpretation' is flawed.

Do Read ghazwa badar how a small group can outperform biggest opponents.
Every Fiqah says "My interpretation is right" others are flawed. Whats new...
Still it didn't mention "him" as ruler of state in that ayat.... Just different interpretations ...
Zarvan believes on other, you believes on others.

 

[TankMan]

Do Read ghazwa badar how a small group can outperform biggest opponents.
Every Fiqah says "My interpretation is right" others are flawed. Whats new...

The rules for the Prophet's time were different. Desperation, direct divine intervention - not applicable to today's Muslims.
What's new, meray bhai, is that we Muslims need to start taking a more logical approach to things. Develop our nations. Then worry about Qital and Jihad for others. At the very least get our own countries on track.

 

[syedali73]

Their was no order of Jihad in Makkah. Jihad was made compulsory in Madinah and after that their were several wars every year and increased by every year. Sorry but now their are 57 Muslim states can't wait for every country to get in order and as Muslim lands are under occupation for example Palestine and Kashmir and Chechnya its duty of Muslim states to declare Jihad their failure is biggest boost to militant groups. Your denial will not change reality .

Please develop a habit of reading the post carefully. I am not referring to the time of Mekkah, but time of Madina when several Muslims were stranded in Mekkah and under persecution. Sulah Hudaibyah... rings any bell? What were the conditions? Do you know how many Muslims were being persecuted before and after that?

Regarding Palestine and Chechnya... How many Muslim countries came to help Jinnah when he was struggling for Pakistan? Was his struggle not peaceful? Did he not win you a country? If Jinnah could do it, why nobody from Chechnya or Palestine or Kashmir do it? What they need is a statesman and not jihad (in your meanings) per se. Muslim counties must help them, morally, monetarily, and politically but not militarily unless sanctioned by the UN. You must come out the times when the world was divided in two, dar-ul-Islam and dar-ul-kufr. This division no longer exists because lots of Muslims are residing in non-Muslim countries and vice versa. Rules of the game are changed.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Develop our nations. Then worry about Qital and Jihad for others. At the very least get our own countries on track.

Don't indulge in religious bigotry and behaviour like "I am always right"....And other knows nothing about.....
It just happens in our country, it creates sections , and sub sections, sectarian violence, then bigotry, bigotry and then bloodshed.....You have to leave this pessimistic behavior then there is some hope for better Pakistan.

 

[syedali73]

Don't indulge in religious bigotry and behaviour like "I am always right"....And other knows nothing about.....
It just happens in our country, it creates sections , and sub sections, sectarian violence, then bigotry, bigotry and then bloodshed.....You have to leave this pessimistic behavior then there is some hope for better Pakistan.

I guess nobody is stopping you and Zarvan from getting yourselves blown up into an American or Israeli or Bharti compound. Go ahead but spare us from your misinterpretations of Islam and its philosophy of Qattal-fi-sabeel-illah. Thanks.

 

[TankMan]

Don't indulge in religious bigotry and behaviour like "I am always right"....And other knows nothing about.....
It just happens in our country, it creates sections , and sub sections, sectarian violence, then bigotry, bigotry and then bloodshed.....You have to leave this pessimistic behavior then there is some hope for better Pakistan.

Meray bhai kidher hai pessimistic behaviour? Since when did my opposing militancy become bigotry? Please quote one post in which I have said anything that amounts to sectarian bigotry. You have to leave this habit of jumping to conclusions and declaring others pessimists or bigots.

None of my arguments are based on a sect. All of them have basis in the Quran and Hadith. You are welcome to disagree, but you must understand that I am not forming a sect or representing a sect by voicing my opinion which is based on the Quran and Hadith. It is not based on the teachings of any Imam or sect either. And neither am I ''indulging in religious bigotry''. I am disagreeing with your opinions. I am not forcing them on you.

I have always opposed sectarianism. We need to learn to accept differences of opinion without forming sects over the most trivial of matters.

Do you see how quick you were to jump to the conclusion that somehow I am a 'bigot' simply because of such a minor disagreement? That, right there, is our undoing. That is what creates sects and subsections. Our unwillingness to engage in debate. Our stubbornness and pride that prevents us from engaging in conversation with people with differing views, or from accepting that we could be wrong.

The Quran forbids division among Muslims (unfortunately, we have done so anyway).
''And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided.'' [Ale' Imraan 103]

''And do not be like the ones who became divided and differed after the clear proofs had come to them. And those will have a great punishment.'' [Ale' Imraan 105]

But that doesn't mean don't discuss matters at all. It means discuss matters without jumping up and down, getting emotional and dividing the community through short-sighted reactionary responses like the one you have just given me.

Here I am trying to argue against a dangerous corruption of religious narrative that leads to militancy, through proper discourse with a basis in authentic Islamic texts, and in response I am labelled a 'bigot'.

 

[syedali73]

Here I am trying to argue against a dangerous corruption of religious narrative that leads to militancy, through proper discourse with a basis in authentic Islamic texts, and in response I am labelled a 'bigot'.

You are being labeled and ridiculed because there is nothing left to counter your logical and Quran-backed arguments. You should celebrate this name calling for it always results when one gets exhausted of counter arguments. Congratulations!

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

I guess nobody is stopping you and Zarvan from getting yourselves blown up into an American or Israeli or Bharti compound.

Rant and offtopic post is sign of losing the argument ... I am friend of Israel, and I don't buy so called jihad theory for terrorist Hamas....
Hamas, LET, Taliban, ISIS all are terrorist according to me....Don't lecture me to blow myself in amercia .. You are free to blow yourself anywhere. Don't blame me for losing argument. ... Thank you....
Just reply in sensible manner.

 

[syedali73]

Rant and offtopic post is sign of losing the argument ... I am friend of Israel, and I don't buy so called jihad theory for terrorist Hamas....
Hamas, LET, Taliban, ISIS all are terrorist according to me....Don't lecture me to blow myself in amercia .. You are free to blow yourself anywhere.

Friend of Israel? Bhai, you need to first befriend with your own self and learn how to conduct a debate without getting cheap.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

learn how to conduct a debate without getting cheap.

Read your post again....Who is getting cheap , and you said "blow yourself in Israel and America" . You should not talk like this. Sir ,learn to win argument through debate and evidence.... Otherwise it just shows, you are losing the argument. ... You should not talk like this.
Thank you

 

[VCheng]

Not to be accused of being anti-Islam or anything like that, but isn't religious discussion against the rules of PDF? Each side playing holier-than-thou only makes them both look bad.

 

[TankMan]

Not to be accused of being anti-Islam or anything like that, but isn't religious discussion against the rules of PDF? Each side playing holier-than-thou only makes them both look bad.

Apparently there's an exception if the discussion is of any quality and not just trolling. Though the mods really do need to clarify their stance on this.

As for playing holier-than-thou, I'm not saying I am better than @Zarvan or @Peaceful Civilian . I am saying I disagree with their approaches and opinions on this particular matter.

Acting self-righteous definitely does, I agree, make one's argument look bad.

But we also do need to appreciate the fact that one of the two approaches/interpretations in this argument results in militancy and terrorism, while the other attempts to counter that.