Next generation pakistan army tank to be unveiled in IDEAS2018

[Bilal Khan 777]

I think there will be components taken from VT4 and Plot to further AK2 program, and upgrade AK1 and Al Zarrar.

 

[FuturePAF]

Glad to hear the VT-4 is a scaled down not watered down Latest Type 99 variant. If it is selected it will fill the huge gap in quantity and quality. On Quality, The PA should not pass on the opportunity, to upgrade its 320 T-80UD to as close to the OPLOT Standard. The different strengths and weaknesses of the VT-4 and OPLOT will allow different tactics to be employed on the battle space. The Ukrainians have a lot of experience currently dealing with the Russians, and we should not pass up an opportunity to learn from them.

Further, the Al-Zarrar Design may not be enough to survive on the battle field nowadays. Pakistan should look to Turks to see if they can scale down their Altay Armour (and with their knowledge and experience with their M-60 Sabra Tanks) to develop an armor package for the remaining 600 Type-59, 158 Type 69-IIMP, 267 Type 85-IIP. The 500 Current Al Zarrars could get a modest Armour package upgrade from the Turks or Chinese as well similar to the Polish PT-16 design from either the Chinese or The Turks. Upgrading the Guns should also be looked at.

Three Foreign Suppliers, as well as our own factories doing upgrade work, can really modernize the whole fleet in a decade and spread around the cost on long term soft loan basis if possible. If the Turkish Armour upgrades looks promising the Altay could be Selected to form the basis for the Al-Khalid 2 / Haider Project. Also Pakistan can study using DU in its composite Armour packages like in the Abrams or Chombam Armour of The Challenger.

The PA could study the value of the upgrade package and see if it is worth it over buying new tanks.
http://john1911.com/video-turkish-m-60-tank-survives-hit-by-modern-atgm/

PT-16 Tank Upgrade From Poland
https://www.armyrecognition.com/pol...tle_tank_mbt_pt-2016_data_pictures_video.html
https://defence-blog.com/army/poland-develops-new-pt-16-main-battle-tank.html

Reference Tank Numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_of_the_Pakistan_Army#Armour

 

[Signalian]

Well, when I look at the larger picture, I go back to a few years go when Raheel Shareef supervised a training exercise along with Nawaz Shareef. The highlight was attack helis, Mobile Sams, and MLRS. Also at that time, the program for new service rifles was also started. Now all of a sudden, there has been no further advancement in SAMS and MLRS, and the rifle initiative has been dropped. Instead, we are seeing this sudden focus on armor.

I feel there is a discontinuity of policies here. If Raheel Shareef's policy of SAMS is continued, we would have to be less concerned about Indian helis, UCAVs, and CAS (Jaguar). If the army can hold its own against these, then PAF should be able to take care of Flankers + Mirages and Migs. In order to defeat Indian SAMs, we should be thinking supersonic and hypersonic cruise missiles. And there is a good reason to do so. Why do we think that the initial thrust will come in the form of armor? The initial volley will be saturation attacks with Brahmos. We need defence against that for our installations and formations, and we need something to strike back - hard.

I really fear that whoever is overseeing this armor initiative is living in the previous century.

It's not just the SAM's. There is a mix match of weaponry in all formations, which I will come to later on.

PA SP SAM's need to be able to reach and take out MKI and Mirage 2k. They have to be very mobile, armed with a cannon and missiles. Short range and medium range. PA also needs PAF cover if PA decides to use gunships and UCAVS's inside Indian territory.

PA operates 5 types of MBT. 2 types of APC, no type of IFV. 1 technology type of ATGM (TOW/GA). Coming to Artillery, 7-8 types of towed pieces and 1 type of SP Arty. 2 types of MLRS.

It's not the terrain really which matters everywhere and holds the basis for acquiring Light, medium and heavy weapons and vehicles . E.g AK can operate efficiently in any terrain.

PA should filter down the types of AFV's it operates. Consider the MBT's going back to 5 types ( T-85 III, AZ, AK, AL HAIDER, AK-II) after T-59 and T-69 are completely retired.

Back to square one.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

May be it was just the , Infantry carrying vehicle not a Tank

 

[FuturePAF]

you need fighter like J16 that can strike deep inside India. and nuclear subs that can fire cruise missile with nuke warheads.

That wont change the balance of power between India and Pakistan. What Pakistan needs from China is some kind of Joint Venture where Chinese imports from India have to be via Chinese companies based in Pakistan. Some kind of Final Assembly of the Products being done in Pakistan and then on wards to the Chinese market. A condition like this would bind India and Pakistan into cooperating to secure more sales to China. India would be forced to cooperate with Pakistan if it doesn't want to hurt its exports to China. Pakistan would gain a security mechanism as well as some jobs for "Value added" work. China gets to export the products through its Port in Gwadar and has work done in its factories in Pakistan. Also Pakistan gets more business to pay off its CPEC Debt so Chinese investors also win.

This would be better than weapons and more stabilizing for the region.

 

[CriticalThought]

It's not just the SAM's. There is a mix match of weaponry in all formations, which I will come to later on.

PA SP SAM's need to be able to reach and take out MKI and Mirage 2k. They have to be very mobile, armed with a cannon and missiles. Short range and medium range. PA also needs PAF cover if PA decides to use gunships and UCAVS's inside Indian territory.

PA operates 5 types of MBT. 2 types of APC, no type of IFV. 1 technology type of ATGM (TOW/GA). Coming to Artillery, 7-8 types of towed pieces and 1 type of SP Arty. 2 types of MLRS.

It's not the terrain really which matters everywhere and holds the basis for acquiring Light, medium and heavy weapons and vehicles . E.g AK can operate efficiently in any terrain.

PA should filter down the types of AFV's it operates. Consider the MBT's going back to 5 types ( T-85 III, AZ, AK, AL HAIDER, AK-II) after T-59 and T-69 are completely retired.

Back to square one.

Agreed, collecting a menagerie of weapons is highly inefficient. A single chassis should form the basis of tanks and IFVs and more firepower needs to be added to IFVs.

If mobile SAM coverage is comprehensive, then any aerial attack will be difficult for the enemy. If PAF can establish air superiority locally then we are good to use drones and helis anywhere. There would be a natural synergy between SAMs and PAF that would give us advantage.

We have two types of concerns: short term and long term. In the short term, we need solid defence. In the long term, single chassis based indigenous vehicles should bulk us out. Along with latest ATGMs.

 

[帅的一匹]

That wont change the balance of power between India and Pakistan. What Pakistan needs from China is some kind of Joint Venture where Chinese imports from India have to be via Chinese companies based in Pakistan. Some kind of Final Assembly of the Products being done in Pakistan and then on wards to the Chinese market. A condition like this would bind India and Pakistan into cooperating to secure more sales to China. India would be forced to cooperate with Pakistan if it doesn't want to hurt its exports to China. Pakistan would gain a security mechanism as well as some jobs for "Value added" work. China gets to export the products through its Port in Gwadar and has work done in its factories in Pakistan. Also Pakistan gets more business to pay off its CPEC Debt so Chinese investors also win.

This would be better than weapons and more stabilizing for the region.

its not feasible

 

[JohnWick]

its not feasible

Try something to write sensible even when you are trolling......

 

[waz]

I have strong nerves and i don't get anxious easily. I also don't live in dream land and tend to follow Realpolitik. IMO, Pakistan is in deep shi..t.

India is buying up thousands of T-90s, BMPs and T-14s possibly, Apaches, all operating under the S-400 umbrella and the full might of the Indian Air Force.

The VT-4 is NOT going to cut it on its own. We need a proper 4th Generation MBT platform which can also be adopted for a 4th Gen IFV, ICV, ARV, ARSV, AMCV and armored ambulance.

Not by itself of course and Pakistan does have and will have counter measures to all the above. But a force of 1,500 VT-4's is certainly going to take a giant leap in the right direction, especially since the tank outguns anything India has.

 

[帅的一匹]

Not by itself of course and Pakistan does have and will have counter measures to all the above. But a force of 1,500 VT-4's is certainly going to take a giant leap in the right direction, especially since the tank outguns anything India has.

China shall help Pakistan set up a Vt4 production line。

Produce MBT at full speed.

After India announced to induct another thousand T90ms, it's time for Pakistan to respond.

 

[Path-Finder]

Personally a cross breed between VT-4 and Oplot is what Pakistan's ideal tank will be. Clearly the merits and demerits of both tanks compliment each other which explains why both tanks were never rejected and given the time to fix their issues. Unfortunately that cannot be as there can only be one winner but maybe VT-4 if its the winner will be modded to the needs of Pakistan.

 

[帅的一匹]

Personally a cross breed between VT-4 and Oplot is what Pakistan's ideal tank will be. Clearly the merits and demerits of both tanks compliment each other which explains why both tanks were never rejected and given the time to fix their issues. Unfortunately that cannot be as there can only be one winner but maybe VT-4 if its the winner will be modded to the needs of Pakistan.

Ukraine has trouble now, and it might have war with Russia. also they are in hesitate whether to give TOT to Pakistan.

 

[waz]

Ukraine has trouble now, and it might have war with Russia. also they are in hesitate whether to give TOT to Pakistan.

Ukraine can’t deliver on anything. The Thai Army disaster is a prime example of this. The Oplot should be forgotten about.

 

[Path-Finder]

Ukraine can’t deliver on anything. The Thai Army disaster is a prime example of this. The Oplot should be forgotten about.

No, there is a lot to be gained from Ukraine I know they have huge issues at the moment but the tech they have developed is what Pakistan is seeking. It's better to get them to work in Pakistan and help Pakistan or buy it outright from them.

 

[Amigator]

Isn't this possible that Pakistan negotiate with China over TOT for VT-4 and produce an assembly line in Pakistan for at least 300 tanks. And name it as Al Khalid II????

But a force of 1,500 VT-4's

???