News from within CAC (J-10B and J-20, also Pakistan related)

[Zabaniyah]

Not too surprising.

Even if they are allies, the producer country normally does not export the best variant of a model to it's ally. This similarly applies to the USA and Russia and goes on even now.

If the Pakistanis do want the J-10B, they'd have to wait for a while. It's not like China is going to export J-10Bs before they themselves field it fully operational.

 

[S10]

You said all ws10were taken by sac
What does it means and why

Two reasons

1. Air force does not have complete faith in WS-10A yet to use it on single engine J-10, while there is more safety margin with twin engine J-11.
2. Production of WS-10A is really slow.

 

[DARKY]

Huzhigeng recently made another appearance on CJDBY, and brought some more insider information. For those of you that don't know who he is, he works for the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, the design bureau for J-17, JF-17, J-10 and J-20. It looks like development in the next year will be pretty smooth ride. Without further delay, here is what he said.

When asked about test flights of J-10B, he said:

"It (J-10B) will enter service at the end of the year, thus military officials came to visit. The first batch will have more than 10 planes, and sent to a first tier unit. That unit had already send quite a few pilots to CAC, and few will fly home with their new toys before the end of the year."

Furthermore, he talked about export:

"Also, export order for J-10 had been signed for Pakistan. There will be XX planes, slightly more than a regiment (about 2 squadrons) size unit. Some changes to avionics at the request of Pakistanis."

Regarding Pakistani version:

"The export orders are for older J-10A version, not B. However there are upgrades done."

About SAC and J-11 export:

"SAC's client are Chinese air force and naval aviation, so export is not possible. Do not expect them to export in the future either, including their 4th (5th) gen."

Whether J-10A will stop production after J-10B starts:

"No, the orders from naval aviation still have to be filled, as well as Pakistan's."

Whether WS-15 engine can keep up with the progress of J-20 on time:

"There is no problem as everything is going smooth at this point. The 3rd prototype next year will be equipped with new avionics. Our own EODAS (Electro Optical Distributed Apature System) will also be installed, and is similar to one found on F-35."

Whether J-10B will be equipped with WS-10 insteald of AL-31F in the future:

"It's difficult. All J-10B orders at this point are planing on using AL-31F. SAC took all the WS-10 for themselves."

What kind of engine will Pakistan's J-10 use:

"Russian, do you really need to ask?"

http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-1194524-1-1.html

I said the same things about WS 10 engines in one of the Pakistani threads relating to the purchase of 123 Al-31 engines from Russia and that those engines would possibly see service on J-10Bs......however one Chinese member came up with his insider source's claims and one of the Pakistani member labelled me as troll.

Where are Inside sources bring them here and ask them to prove the authenticity of this news........every Pakistani Member was claiming J-10B and expecting them this year itself in their AF even before PLAAF.

 

[Nav]

well i guess orignal agreement was inked in Musaraf era when he preferd J-10 over F-16 around 2004-5, there were no J-10b existed that time, Paf requisted to upgrade J-10 as per their requirements, so The J-10b came into light, i am still hoping that PaF Will get j-10b. Either j-10a its not a bad machiene.
Regards

 

[SQ8]

I said the same things about WS 10 engines in one of the Pakistani threads relating to the purchase of 123 Al-31 engines from Russia and that those engines would possibly see service on J-10Bs......however one Chinese member came up with his insider source's claims and one of the Pakistani member labelled me as troll.

Where are Inside sources bring them here and ask them to prove the authenticity of this news........every Pakistani Member was claiming J-10B and expecting them this year itself in their AF even before PLAAF.

Where are these imaginary members??
I have yet to see such on the J10 thread..

And if you cant see the grass on the other side of the wall.. who the heck are you to decide if its green or not..
you dont have to accept it, but stop shoving your "disbelief" down everybody's throat if they dont accept it



on topic...
What is probably not factored by many "shocked" members.. is that the PAF's plans before may 2 ...and after it have changed.
May 2 was a spine shaker.. before that, the Pakistan military had not taken the idea of the US as an adversary seriously. Now there is the very real possibility that we may end up exchanging shots with our "ally".
Suddenly, our F-16's are now a liability for us vs the US.
We need another heavy fighter to tackle the western front.. the J-10B is still sitting in the 2015 timeline.. we need something in one year. Which is where the J-10A can come in.
The J-10B procurement may still be on track.. but like the Jf-17.. as a block II thing.

 

[DarK-LorD]

Come on J-10A is not bad you know.Only problem is that it has no AESA.

 

[VelocuR]

i think j10a is still a very good bird now,
If you don't believe me, you can go and see for yourself.

Vietnam SU-30 locked by J-10, 10 times
http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/118638-vietnam-su-30-locked-j-10-10-times.html


J10B will be manufactured by a new product line ,first fill the requirements of PLAAF,then PAF.
old product line continues to manufacture J10a for export , PAF's j10a will have new aerospace electronic system by what huzigeng said.

I think, PAF will reject J-10A, it should be reject. This good bird is not our specific requirements. As for Vietnam Su-30, they are bad downgraded version from Russia suppliers and probably inexperienced. Yeah, that's J-10A locked them easily.

Our expectation is still firm on J-10B, more lethal and capables.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Come on J-10A is not bad you know.Only problem is that it has no AESA.

Where did it say or who said there won't be AESA ??

The news coming is just saying that it will be a J-10A design (the one without the DSI thingy) but with Pakistan specific avionics suit.

Has the radar type been mentioned or talked about anywhere ??

Plz provide your source.

What makes you think or anyone else that the J-10A design can't be equipped with AESA ??

AESA radar can be placed in any radar nose and the existing place in the nose can accommodate the equipment of the AESA radar with may be slight change.

Everyone has now started speculating.

Simple fact is, we need something to fill the 100 or so front line fighter requirement which previously F-16s would have done, but since relations with US has gone down, J-10 is the best choice with the latest avionics which Chinese can supply and that is the reason they are being procured before the 2014-15 deadline for J-10B variant.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Not too surprising.

Even if they are allies, the producer country normally does not export the best variant of a model to it's ally. This similarly applies to the USA and Russia and goes on even now.

If the Pakistanis do want the J-10B, they'd have to wait for a while. It's not like China is going to export J-10Bs before they themselves field it fully operational.

China has always supplied us the best they can offer as per our requirement or near to that.

Russia for the last many years has been exporting more advanced variants of its fighter jets then what its own air force uses.

US has made exceptions just recently with F-16 Blk 60s to UAE & the Silent Eagle F-15s, but then again US has the Raptors, so what are the afraid off ??

China has supplied the best it produces to whomever it can and who has requested, and we have been a very special case and Chinese have helped us a lot.

As pointed out, J-10B has still to get IOC and that deadline is around this year end, once done, it will go through more testing and once final testing is done, then formal production will start and that also would be a slow process, as the production line of current J-10 design will have to be altered which would need money and resources. So had J-10B plan been unchanged, in 2014-15 we would have started to get the J-10Bs along the Chinese as by then China would have atleast close to 300 J-10As in service.

But due to the urgent need of PAF which arose unexpectedly, the current design J-10 is being procured with the best avionics suit available from the Chinese and they would be no less then what others are flying today.

 

[TaimiKhan]

I think, PAF will reject J-10A, it should be reject. This good bird is not our specific requirements. As for Vietnam Su-30, they are bad downgraded version from Russia suppliers and probably inexperienced. Yeah, that's J-10A locked them easily.

Our expectation is still firm on J-10B, more lethal and capables.

What is there in J-10B which makes it special ?? The DSI ?? So what does DSI provides to the plane compared to the current one, nothing extra ordinary.

JF-17s with its 2-3 year old radar and EW suite is holding good against the western EW equipment/platforms we have, then why can't be the current Chinese avionics to be used in J-10A not have a good capability, since the results of 2-3 year old technology on JF-17s is proving to be better then we expected.

J-10A if lets suppose comes up with AESA and a good EW suite as per our requirement, whats wrong in that ?? Just no DSI.

And even with current tech X-band Doppler pulse radar, the J-10 is one hell of a fighter.

There is no big difference between the both designs, J-10B has a redesigned nose since it got a DSI, otherwise had there been no change, we would have been getting the same J-10A with our own set of avionic suite in 2014-15.

So guys, don't get too much hyper and loose your senses, thing logically and see the reasons for this decision. We have only 60 front line fighters against 300+ front line fighters in the east and now the US has also come into the equation, against whom may be the F-16 won't be that good as its their plane.

 

[DARKY]

Where are these imaginary members??
I have yet to see such on the J10 thread..

And if you cant see the grass on the other side of the wall.. who the heck are you to decide if its green or not..
you dont have to accept it, but stop shoving your "disbelief" down everybody's throat if they dont accept it

That was on J-11 thread where.... the reluctance of PAF officers/Pilots on Russian engine over Chinese.....was also said about.
You can go there can and look for those imaginary members itself.......
......I didn't see the grass but I did feel the damping on other side of the wall to give an indication of the green grass growing....Never did I tried to shove any thing in any one's throat......I have always said feel free to Disagree......however even if I mention those words below my post.....somehow you completely ignore them and take my arguments as a belief imposed.....and label me as a troll if don't shove your arguments in my throat.

on topic...
What is probably not factored by many "shocked" members.. is that the PAF's plans before may 2 ...and after it have changed.
May 2 was a spine shaker.. before that, the Pakistan military had not taken the idea of the US as an adversary seriously. Now there is the very real possibility that we may end up exchanging shots with our "ally".
Suddenly, our F-16's are now a liability for us vs the US.
We need another heavy fighter to tackle the western front.. the J-10B is still sitting in the 2015 timeline.. we need something in one year. Which is where the J-10A can come in.
The J-10B procurement may still be on track.. but like the Jf-17.. as a block II thing.

So one Incident of a May 2 changes the definition of an "ally" in one stroke .........If I am not wrong there was also one thread running on possible further acquisition of F-16 block 52 by PAF.......did some one forget to tell them about May 2 Incident.......why buy F-16 why not buy J-10A simply......
.....If only you could really tell the color of the grass on the otherside of the wall.......that It was really J-10A which was looked into from the beginning with some modifications as the Chinese here are claiming or J-10B was the choice which cannot be available before 2014......or its not J-10A/B......but F-16 which is being looked into.......all messed up....."ally-foe-foe-ally"........ There might also be J-XX procurement on track...... the biggest problem I see here with Pakistani Members is that they really count the chickens and start partying even before they hatch.

 

[unicorn148]

The news is not shocking because when the deal was signed for 36 fighter for 1.5 Billion $ the cost of J10A was kept in mind and calculated because when the deal was signed J10B was still on paper so the cost of Aesa and IRST and all the latest developments cannot be calculated so FC20 will be PAF version of J10A with some modifications as the PAF has asked

 

[unicorn148]

What is there in J-10B which makes it special ?? The DSI ?? So what does DSI provides to the plane compared to the current one, nothing extra ordinary.

JF-17s with its 2-3 year old radar and EW suite is holding good against the western EW equipment/platforms we have, then why can't be the current Chinese avionics to be used in J-10A not have a good capability, since the results of 2-3 year old technology on JF-17s is proving to be better then we expected.

J-10A if lets suppose comes up with AESA and a good EW suite as per our requirement, whats wrong in that ?? Just no DSI.

And even with current tech X-band Doppler pulse radar, the J-10 is one hell of a fighter.

There is no big difference between the both designs, J-10B has a redesigned nose since it got a DSI, otherwise had there been no change, we would have been getting the same J-10A with our own set of avionic suite in 2014-15.

So guys, don't get too much hyper and loose your senses, thing logically and see the reasons for this decision. We have only 60 front line fighters against 300+ front line fighters in the east and now the US has also come into the equation, against whom may be the F-16 won't be that good as its their plane.

Incorporating an AESA radar into J10A will not be possible because the nose has to be redesigned thats what done on J10B for AESA but one thing is true having an mature PESA radar will make J10A very potent fighter

 

[Zabaniyah]

the biggest problem I see here with Pakistani Members is that they really count the chickens and start partying even before they hatch.

Oh, I have observed that among many Indian members as well

 

[Ssg1956]

Hi! I am not expert in Jet fighter shits but I have read a bit about F-16s, JF-17s and J10s.

To me this thread looks like a punch to Pakistanis from Chinese ...... and the posts look like Pakistanis are trying to punch back Chinese (Referred to internet fans, not to Military ****) = bit like flame war between Pakistanis and Chinese fans because of jealousy. (Note to Indian: You guys can warm yourself as long Chinese and Pakistanis throw negative posts on each other and the flame continues ) lols but sorry I don't mean offences to any party.

To Chinese and Pakistanis who start bashing each other for J10As and J10Bs in this forum, (to me it looks like bashing), what the hell you guys know about inside and outside of Aircraft, developments, joint projects blah blah. Internet, media etc only provide us those informations which are mostly bullshits ..... things like specifications about military equipments are mostly incorrect and now way in hell you guys know most of the equipment's capabilities, specifications etc. If reliable and true informations are revealed on internet, media, shits etc then why agencies take risk of spying when they are available of internet etc.

I couldn't bother to write more of my bullshits.....