New world map. New York Times

[BLACKEAGLE]

It's no secret that certain elements in India and the US seek to legitimize the Balochistan separatists as being something more than a lunatic fringe.

So, Jundullah separatists are more of a threat to Pakistan than Iran.

 

[ahfatzia]

Difficult not! Since some Russians believe so.

No doubt the Russians are wary. But it's not China's policy to expand to Russia Siberia and aside from water resources there's nothing there that Northwest China doesn't have. It's more to do with the locals buying up arable lands across the river for more productions. At the same time the people on the Russian side have to rely heavily on the Chinese for all their supplies because again, there's nothing there besides some isolated barren townships.

Russia has to pay huge incentives to entice her own citizens to move to this harsh part of the world and is not making much inroads. No doubt, in the longer term, the Chinese will takeover part of this land by natural selection.

 

[Icarus]

Darkest scenarios ever, especially the Pakistani one. It seems I don't understand it well, are Baluchis Sunni-majority or is it an ethnic issue? And why are they calling for establishing greater Baluchistan?

It's a Feudal issue. Balochistan is divided in 70 clans under a ruling family. 3 Clan leaders of Balochistan's most influential tribes are pissed over their loss of importance in the federation and have thus raised hue and cry over "Exploitation" of Baloch resources.

 

[ajtr]

...kal tak to India ke piche thi ab poore SAARC ke peeche...Greedy person....

i insist on word "indian subcontinent" instead of "SA" for a reason always..

 

[Langda Tyaagi]

they are crazy only what they are dreaming to happen from long time,

There is no mention of india splitting ,
nothing about USA itself
nothing about Britain and scotland dividing up?
long list...

They have a map of Pakistan for future. And you think that they are crazy.

 

[Srinivas]

No doubt the Russians are wary. But it's not China's policy to expand to Russia Siberia and aside from water resources there's nothing there that Northwest China doesn't have. It's more to do with the locals buying up arable lands across the river for more productions. At the same time the people on the Russian side have to rely heavily on the Chinese for all their supplies because again, there's nothing there besides some isolated barren townships.

Russia has to pay huge incentives to entice her own citizens to move to this harsh part of the world and is not making much inroads. No doubt, in the longer term, the Chinese will takeover part of this land by natural selection.

CCP failed convince the "peaceful rise" theory to the world after SCS and East sea debacles. There is a increase in the concern of Chinese intentions in Asian community.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

It's a Feudal issue. Balochistan is divided in 70 clans under a ruling family. 3 Clan leaders of Balochistan's most influential tribes are pissed over their loss of importance in the federation and have thus raised hue and cry over "Exploitation" of Baloch resources.

The same issue we face in Jordan, Jordan is a tribal society, the king has been always keen to appoint high rank officials from every major clan in the country, so they feel that there significance is addressed and recognized among other clans. In this way, he managed to keep them satisfied. I think Pakistan should do the same, maybe it's wrong to appoint people based on their clan or ethnicity but it's an unavoidable solution to prevent chaos. Sometimes, you have to be realistic.

 

[Roybot]

This is quite old?

 

[Joe Shearer]

It's no secret that certain elements in India and the US seek to legitimize the Balochistan separatists as being something more than a lunatic fringe.

Who? Would like to know. Hope it isn't some right wing blog.

 

[Icarus]

The same issue we face in Jordan, Jordan is a tribal society, the king has been always keen to appoint high rank officials from every major clan in the country, so they feel that there significance is addressed and recognized among other clans. In this way, he managed to keep them satisfied. I think Pakistan should do the same, maybe it's wrong to appoint people based on their clan or ethnicity but it's an unavoidable solution to prevent chaos. Sometimes, you have to be realistic.

It would surprise you to know that all 3 of the Feudal Lords under question have been Chief Ministers of the Balochistan province in the past.

 

[Joe Shearer]

i insist on word "indian subcontinent" instead of "SA" for a reason always..

You're right, of course.

There is political India, cultural India and geographic India. Geographic india is larger than political India, cultural India is larger than geographic India. Political India can have no claims to any of the greater extent defined under the other two entities.

 

[Armstrong]

Darkest scenarios ever, especially the Pakistani one. It seems I don't understand it well, are Baluchis Sunni-majority or is it an ethnic issue? And why are they calling for establishing greater Baluchistan?

The Baloch are probably like the rest of Pakistan ! Sunni majority interspersed with a significant Shi'ite minority that co-exists peacefully ! So its more of an ethnic issue; Balochistan is the most marginalized province of the country because of the ineptitude, corruption and decadence of subsequent Federal Governments & the same can be said of the Baloch Sardars (Tribal Leaders); naturally the common Baloch suffered the most. During that time repeatedly some fringe elements have ignited the calls of an Independent Balochistan but luckily the common Baloch still wants more autonomy within Pakistan (as do most Pakistanis) instead of Independence *Use the search button to find that survey I posted a few weeks earlier conducted by a British Entity or if anecdotal evidence is anything to go by asking our resident Baloch on this very forum*.

Not that the rest of Pakistan is the proverbial land of milk and honey but Balochistan is relatively less developed still with numerous places all over the province where, or so I've heard, the latest development to come to the way of the People doesn't extend beyond the hand-pump ! Naturally in such abysmal conditions certain elements speak and when they speak the common man listens; but whats worst he looks around and sees nothing, that many Baloch are living in the same conditions their ancestors did perhaps a 100 years ago *not that the rest of us..barring the cities are that much better* and so they listen more intently ! In that those elements find cannon fodder to start 'insurgencies' against the corrupt, despotic government who is out to get the Baloch and so organizations like the BLA are formed - namely the Balochistan Liberation Army ! They hound & harass the security forces, the government installations and the ethnicities who've lived in Balochistan for a while but aren't exactly traditionally thought of as belonging to the same land; namely the Hazaras (who also happen to be predominantly Shi'ites), the Punjabis, the Mohajirs etc. The security forces retaliate and take out as many of them as possible but because the laws in our country aiming to deal with these things are fairly lax the general perception is that they - the security forces - kill the insurgents instead of capturing & jailing them because in the past, or so I've heard, many have gotten out unscathed because there wasn't enough evidence to stick to them per se ! Pakistan has now reformed those laws to a certain extent and other modes of gathering evidence & presenting them in a court of law are now permissible, or so I understand !

On to Balochistan breaking away ! Possibly not because the population of Balochistan number around 8-10 million of whom 40% are Baloch, 20% are Barahui (another sub-group related to the Baloch but with a different language and culture or so I understand) whereas the rest are predominantly Pashtun (perhaps as high as 35-40%) with the remainder being of settlers - Hazaras, Punjabis, Sindhis etc. Now if one were to assume that all the Baloch would want to break away which is ludicrous to begin with because the vast majority don't or so I understand, then they'd still be outnumbered by the 60% majority Non-Baloch who inhabit the province ! Then there is the fact that 40% of 10 million is around 4 million people in a country thats set to reach the 200 million figure if it already hasn't ! Kinda hard to break away don't you think ? Heck if that wasn't enough then the fact that there are so many ethnic Baloch who inhabit the adjoining provinces of KPK, Sindh and Punjab with many of them having families back and forth; now these people are Pro-Pakistan all the way that much I'm sure off ! So its kinda hard to pull it off..don't you think ?

And this is all assuming that they do want to break away ? From the many I've talked too - They don't but they are disgruntled about the lack of opportunities in their Provinces as they should be ! They deserve the very best that Pakistan has to offer and as our own flesh & blood it is our failing...our tremendous failing for not being able to contribute to the development of Balochistan in a significant way !

 

[Joe Shearer]

Oh,he's definitely a deracinated, white boot-licker. I can tell, I have a good sense for these things, so no proof will be needed.

 

[KRAIT]

Only thing which can be possible in Pakistan by external forces is creating a conflict region with too much bloodshed and significant deployment of Army for considerable number of years.

It will take its toll on Pakistan's economy and increase frustration among the govt. circle along with the people. Economy wise, the strain on eastern border is always high for Pakistan, western one will pull the rope in other direction. Due to relatively unguarded region and reason mentioned below about border, it will require huge investment in defense to keep things in check and minimize the threat.

The longer the forces remains in the region, there will be extra judicial killings, fake encounters and human rights violation like that happened in India and other parts of the world. (India is included for sake of keeping posters taking shot at India rather than discussing the main topic, and for Indians, lets face it, there has been cases against our Army too). One should always keep in mind the psychological aspect of terrorism and its effect on soldiers.

The longer this situation is kept, the longer these external forces will increase its presence in the adjoining regions especially Afghanistan.

Unstable A-stan is the other option to keep China's and Russia's hands off A-stan if stable A-stan friendly to US and India fails. For this one need to have eastern border of A-stan with Pakistan to be volatile to avoid approach through Pakistan.

It will also create a safe haven for the extremists and a buffer zone. Note that the porous border will be used to prolong the conflict.

If Pashtunistan presented in this article is not followed than independent Baluchistan will be followed.

Kindly note that, the situation will be kept for one to few decades depending on the action by Pakistan and its allies and the enemies of Pakistan. This conflict region will definitely keep the eastern border of Pakistan quite and that's what India wants at least for its own national interest.

One reality check is : Stop dreaming about divided Pakistan. The armed forces is too strong to let the nation being divided unless there is internal division in Army itself.

 

[JayAtl]

Parag khanna is a deracinated guy white man's boot licker.

Not only is that a bigoted remark, but remark that many have accused your forefathers and mine and all Indians when under the britsih raj. To use such terms as white man's bootlicker is to give unto a small mind.

Last time I checked, one could accuse you of being a white man's bootlicker too- you went to a white man's nation to study under the white man's rule and learn from the white's man education institution while coveting the white man's fashion sense and practices. get the point?