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New Threat to Pakistan with India,s New K4 SLBM test next month

As I said before Pakistan is not a huge country, there will not be vast trajectories so yes we do know where it originated from.
Do you even read what I post?
Speed-It can be easily definable when it is painted in the radar or detected by the satellite.
All the high value targets will be protected by the BMD as stated by VK Saraswat.
As for what it carries-we don't know which is why every warhead will be dealt with equal vigor, read my first post for the link.
As for countermeasures, no we are not ready for it now, the only thing we can do right now is make high altitude interceptors which will kill the targets around the target missiles apogee so that they don't get the chance to deploy the countermeasures.


I don't know how the writer didn't consider the tests conducted via SBIRS, maybe he is seeing all of it as a whole.
The SBIRS Low which has now been absorbed by MDA into the STSS program is specifically designed to discriminate among decoys and warheads and it has had a string of successes including a minuteman test where, "First demonstration of track sensor generating multiple tracks for separating objects", was successful.
http://www.mda.mil/global/documents/pdf/PS_SAC-D_Hearing.LTG_O'Reilly.25_MAY_2011.pdf
Northrop Grumman-Built STSS Demonstration Satellites Show 'Force Multiplier' Capability in Aegis Campaign Test NYSE:NOC

No its not perfect but yes, it is going there, in regards to decoys and other countermeasures.


You are comparing a NK-USA engagement to an Indo-Pak engagement, there is a hell of a lot of difference.
As for setting variables.
You don't know that. The 6th AAD test featured a manoeuvrable target which was successfully intercepted.
As for cost, it is not yet known but I doubt it will be more than a ballistic missile + nuke.
And money unlike Pakistan is the last thing India needs to worry about.

As for successful intercept probability and effectiveness.
There have been 8 tests the 4th was aborted coz the target missile deviated travelling only 27km, 5th was a failure and rest were all successes the 8th test had the BMD track 2 target missiles and engage them simultaneously.

This hasn't got anything to do with being a huge country and vastly varying trajectories here , North Korea isn't close - has a lower land area and very few launch positions known to the Yanks sitting next to Pyongyang in Seoul , even then the U.S. experts are warning about the threats originating from it and pointing out the vulnerabilities in their shields . I read what you posted without taking the limitations into account just fine , suffice to say that Indians are more confident and have some false sense of security in their yet-to-be-operational ABM than the other more advanced nations working on it for a long time and claiming to overcome problems which the analysts say - are yet to be conquered by the ballistic defense technology . If the longer distance and a relatively large time window compensates for the advanced missiles equipped with robust countermeasures then the shorter distances and the small time window in our case will compensate for the relatively modest missile technology with few countermeasures , fair to say that ? Apply the same logic here . I do not know what is hard to understand that simulated tests do not take into account , a lot many variables , which will not be predetermined/set by the Indian scientists in a war scenario , this has got more to do than just speed and size , what about the trajectory , launch time/place , its type , chaff's , decoys and the maneuverable vehicle etc ? There's a time constraint imposed by the shorter distances too then there's the cost of the interceptors and their effectiveness , you are claiming a very high value of successful intercept probability ( 99.8 % official Indian claim ) than what the world's best have managed (50 % - even that most of their own defense analysts call as exaggerated and being conducted under controlled conditions ) , which makes one think that the Indian tests for the ballistic defense are being conducted carefully with a lot of variables being controlled extensively - all got successful right ? .

I can understand the initial testing phase through which the BMD is going through now , but where was I wrong when I said that it would take still a decade or two to be deployed significantly ? If you aren't ready for counter measures , pray tell me what are you testing against ? By the time you get it operational , the adversary would have had it deployed . Here you are only talking about Pakistan which started work on MIRV in 2004 and keeps information under tight wraps , what about the other enemy which has it all deployed already ? How do you plan to counter that ? This stopping the missile before it reaches its highest point is well easier said than done , there's no practical example from what I am seeing here where a MIRVed missile is intercepted . I am not aware of India possessing any such infrared system in space , does it exist or that is a future plan which hasn't materialized until now ? Do you have such advanced detection systems deployed at the moment or the long range radars still being worked and polished ? Actually , he's not the only one claiming the fifty percent success rate , I have seen a couple of sources which all claim the same thing , maybe its after even the new " discriminating technology " since well the author clearly declares that no countermeasures were used by the offense .

Actually , that is a good example to think of it . I am not overestimating the capabilities on my side since North Korea doesn't have any counter measures properly deployed like Pakistan and not underestimating the enemy . Even then , the equation is not quite good . The costs are high for interceptors since I doubt that only a single one can be used and with MIRV in the mix , its going to be high than that of the offense . Well , every interceptor test sets variables , what do you mean by " you dont know that " ? The tests are always rigged since there are too many variables to consider and one can only anticipate so much @gambit if you will please explain the " setting the rules " for the test .

Conditions changed dramatically in 1970 with the introduction of Multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle (MIRV) warheads. Suddenly each launcher was throwing not one warhead, but several. These would spread out in space, ensuring that a single interceptor would be needed for each warhead. This simply added to the need to have several interceptors for each warhead in order to provide geographical coverage. Now it was clear that an ABM system would always be many times more expensive than the ICBMs they defended against. In summary, the MIRV made ABM economically ineffective, and practically non-workable.

Anti-ballistic missile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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BOTH COUNTRIES SHOULD KILL ALL THEIR POLITICIANS, THEN ALL PROBLEMS WILL BE SOLVED

Basically creator of all issues for India and Pakistan is British, because at the time of partition they could have done justice while defining borders, but they never wanted both countries to rise mostly they feared rise of India, if both Pakistan and India had become independent with out any issues with each other.
 
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but i think partition was necessary


if its tempting, then it is true, you must follow your heart

I actually find your posts hilarious.

I am sure your advice to a husban who has trouble with his wife is:

KILL HER

:D
 
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All the high value targets will be protected by the BMD as stated by VK Saraswat.
And thats why the countermeasures will be saturated at the targets protected by the BMD.

with the introduction of Multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle (MIRV) warheads. Suddenly each launcher was throwing not one warhead, but several. These would spread out in space, ensuring that a single interceptor would be needed for each warhead.
I know that MIRVs are usually for diffrent targets ,but they can be saturated at a single target not only will they Help in overwhelming the BMD but multiple nuclear detonations at single location are more effective than a single detonation twice the yield
 
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India is not a threat to pak by k4. There is a real threat that already exists in pak.

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who tell you? it can and always can. China will also sell HQ26 anti-satellite to Pakistan in the future.

All India so-called advantage could be countered thourgh weapon purchase from China.

CHina will help Pakistan getting over any type of threat from its neignbour.


It depends who produce it. I believe China sure can, So Pakistan also can.

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India is not a threat to pak by k4. There is a real threat that already exists in pak.

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DroneOffDuty.jpg




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dude, we ask Allah for help, well me at least NO ONE ELSE IS IN THE POSITION TO HELP US

Awww, You just need love :smitten:

Don't worry, I will ask you for advice next time
i dont need love, love is for people who are bored, all i need is food and sleep
 
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@Secur

Which report from DRDO?They might have meant phase 1 & phase 2.DRDO chief has said the AAD - PAD combo is ready fpr induction,but MoD wants a Solid Fuel PDV interceptor.

And your posts reflect your hypocrisy.

Ok,here you have an example-Pakistani establishment says they made an indigenous turbofan as a first time effort,and has operationalised it.
I used examples from around the world to prove that thats,not possible,but you say since the agency that developed it claims so,its indigenous.

Now we have the Indian ABM.
DRDO says the system can identify between threats & decoys,can,handle multiple targets & intercept it.

And you are pointing out the examples of low hit rates of 'American & Russian interceptors for ICBMs with range more than a 10000 km'?Do you have any proof that Indian system may not be able to identify decoys & spend rocket stages from the RV?

@Basel
I was talking about Chinese military communication sats,not Beidou

@Ravi Nair

Koottathil ninnu kaalu vaarathado!!!
 
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@Secur

Which report from DRDO?They might have meant phase 1 & phase 2.DRDO chief has said the AAD - PAD combo is ready fpr induction,but MoD wants a Solid Fuel PDV interceptor.

And your posts reflect your hypocrisy.

Ok,here you have an example-Pakistani establishment says they made an indigenous turbofan as a first time effort,and has operationalised it.
I used examples from around the world to prove that thats,not possible,but you say since the agency that developed it claims so,its indigenous.

Now we have the Indian ABM.
DRDO says the system can identify between threats & decoys,can,handle multiple targets & intercept it.

And you are pointing out the examples of low hit rates of 'American & Russian interceptors for ICBMs with range more than a 10000 km'?Do you have any proof that Indian system may not be able to identify decoys & spend rocket stages from the RV?

I posted your post and told you to read it yourself , the earliest possible induction at a mere 1-2 sites is 2016 at least . You said it yourself that " Induction may happen this decade " so why confront me when I say the same thing ? The PDV is the next phase of the missile defense , it will take time to develop . Have you got anything operational in the Indian ballistic missile defense , that I know not of , currently ?

No , it doesn't . I believe the Pakistani official version because there is no evidence to the contrary , only claims nothing credible . I have the reasons to believe it too since they keep information secret and do not release it usually , even if a turbo fan was being worked on , we wouldn't have known since according to their psyche " we didn't need to know " . If you can bring evidence to the contrary , I would be more than happy to take your word .

Now you have the Indian ABM , the claims of success of which are easily surpassing the world's best even ( imagine a 99.8 % successful intercept probability for yet-to-be-operational system versus the 50% or even less for the US multi layered deployed shield ) , there is data easily available from even 50's to today to dispute that claim of " handling multiple threats and decoys " since well no country has ever claimed success and not with such " high percentile " at least to counter that . There is information regarding other systems which I can compare with yours , in our case there's none . Even today , the countermeasures relatively low cost as they maybe , are a major headache to the ABM systems , hell even the debris falling off the booster rockets poses a problem , please read the brief overview provided on the last page from different sites on vulnerability of ballistic defense " to chaff's , decoy's , MARV , MIRV etc . That is what makes me wondering if the world power's still do not claim that much effectiveness and kill probability and do not have such confidence in their system though they have developed such shield for decades and have spent billions of dollars , what makes the Indians think with their relatively less advanced tech that they conquered the problems which have plagued the defense tech since its inception in such short time ? Now your friend talked about space based infrared system to discriminate between real and fake , yes it works and its a possibility , but India doesn't have it . It wasn't limited to the ICBM or large distances , just bother to read the data I posted earlier regarding that from different links and the claims will start looking hollow .
 
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@Secur, I read a few of your posts on this thread and I can get where you are coming from and what you are saying about credibility, accuracy, war theater being different than a test.

But the reason that you have to come up with counter measures and decoys, or dud missiles to circumvent a BMD itself proves its credibility.. without a BMD you would just have to fire a BM against our high value target only making sure of its accuracy...
but when there is BMD in place you will have to deploy counter measures to breach that and hope that it works...even with an accuracy of lets say 50% - it effectively means your arsenals reduced by 50% hypothetically.

Secondly BMD's being a complete evolved system work as offensive as well as defensive systems. Your argument about cost of interceptors does not matter here when one considers a nuclear BM is what its intercepting.

Layered BMD's that can take down missiles of various ranges at various altitudes are the best defense (other than sending an offensive barrage of warheads in retaliation) for high value targets.
 
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@Secur, I read a few of your posts on this thread and I can get where you are coming from and what you are saying about credibility, accuracy, war theater being different than a test.

But the reason that you have to come up with counter measures and decoys, or dud missiles to circumvent a BMD itself proves its credibility.. without a BMD you would just have to fire a BM against our high value target only making sure of its accuracy...
but when there is BMD in place you will have to deploy counter measures to breach that and hope that it works...even with an accuracy of lets say 50% - it effectively means your arsenals reduced by 50% hypothetically.

Secondly BMD's being a complete evolved system work as offensive as well as defensive systems. Your argument about cost of interceptors does not matter here when one considers a nuclear BM is what its intercepting.

Layered BMD's that can take down missiles of various ranges at various altitudes are the best defense (other than sending an offensive barrage of warheads in retaliation) for high value targets.
50 % intercept capabilities in simulations add all the incertainities present in a real war with countermeasures like chaff , flares , decoys , MARVs and MIRVs and the fact that the BMD will be deployed only on certain areas and not in a large area I think our arsenals will be reduced much lower than 50%
 
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