New Muslim Block Predicted By Dr Israr Ahmed 25 Years Ago - Koi Arab Mulk Is Mein Nahi Ho

[-blitzkrieg-]

i know the difference but modern world is a western creation with some input from east asians

so modernizartion and westernization overlaps in many aspects.

Ya I will ask you that the day western civilization hits its breaks. Everything runs its course. However Modernization is a much bigger and generic concept which prevails. even closed societies can be modern in different ways and western societies have pretty dogmatic beliefs on the regions like middle east.. We dont need to copy west but find the best for our own society.. whatever this bloc is called.whatever WE name it the west will always see it as a muslim bloc. Since this revolves around muslim issues like Palestine and kashmir.

 

[Buddhistforlife]

Ya I will ask you that the day western civilization hits its breaks. Everything runs its course. However Modernization is a much bigger and generic concept which prevails. even closed societies can be modern in different ways and western societies have pretty dogmatic beliefs on the regions like middle east.. We dont need to copy west but find the best for our own society.. whatever this bloc is called.whatever WE name it the west will always see it as a muslim bloc. Since this revolves around muslim issues like Palestine and kashmir.

Modernization means to become more civilized than before. In that case westernisation can be called modern because they are close to being civilized.

In South Asian and Arab nations corruption is rampant and religious and racial extremism is out of control. In a western society humans are treated like humans and are not discriminated.

Women oppression is also common in South Asian and Arab nations. Before British rule, women were denied education in Arab countries and Indian subcontinent. The British reformed it.

Western society has bad aspects but their culture is more civilized and humane.

 

[Hawk_Pakistani]

In a fair comparison the OP fails to mention Saudi's $100B investment and UAE's mandirs or Modi's medal along with not even lip-service (not to mention sabotaging of OIC meeting) weighs more even if "interests" of above mentioned countries are accumulated together.

Nations now look to Blocs which don't compromise on their national strength.
Be it American Bloc or for that matter Saudi hegemony, Pakistani national interests are curtailed even at expense of national/historic narratives a.k.a Kashmir Issue.

NEW BLOC:
There has been no evidence that the new bloc negates national strength of any of the (aspiring) member states.
Turkeys private business or Malaysia palm oil business doesn't compromise on Pakistan's or Kashmir cause.
To put this theory to test, last year the Turks and Malaysians showed that they are ready to support our causes even at expense of economic interests vis-a--vis India.

The way forward:
Pakistan has to look forward and towards central Asia as it is the only sphere where it can realistically expand (strategic depth, economic growth and influence sphere). Having a strong international forum (the combined Turk, Pakistani, Malaysian TV channel) and other such projects are going the be a big factor to propagate our interests outside our borders (this we tried but lacked in 90's when we tried to reach Central Asia).

Keeping the Economic factor in mind, Pakistan is not going to fail its relationship with olden alliance (Saudi-UAE). By 2030-2035 Pakistani reliance on Gulf oil will be minimalistic and Pakistan along with help of China (other factors can aid us in this last point as well if we are able to jointly mitigate CPEC effects in Central Asia with preference given to Pakistani workforce and Chineses company by the nature of agreement) and other members of Bloc can relocate and devise a good outsourcing agreement with 40+ states for our labour class. This along with the fact that CPEC will be a fully fledging and running reality in the next decade, will free us from the Saudi blackmail of expelling 3-million workers.

Disclaimer:
All this may sound like a daydream but policies are formulated keeping in mind dead ends and the ends which a nation wants to achieve and the Saudi alliance though important is nowhere as good as it once was under Shah Faisal, and seems like a dead. For this reason, in my humble opinion Pakistan should continue to engage Saudi Arab in military and strategic terms just enough that they don't fall under the Indian Bloc and continue to depend on Pakistan (instead of Pakistan depending on them) for their regime security, all the while decoupling its liabilities from the Gulf countries and distributing them to other preferable spots where Pakistan may hold some credible leverage i.e. a new Bloc.

 

[L0ne Warri0r]

I don't think many Pakistanis understand the complexities and nuances in the relations between the Turks and other groups i.e Iranians, Russians etc etc

So why are we continuously trying to say such a block could be possible because each of the mentioned countries don't really trust each other that much? Sans maybe Pakistan, a lot of these countries are at odds with one another on some issues (i think, i'm judging by the unfriendly behaviors)

It would be nice for all non-Arab Muslims to form a block of their own, but it seems kinda unlikely?

Modern world is over with blocs, that is the thing we need to understand this is the modern diplomacy, Arabs are our friends just like Turkey, we need to progress with things in our interests with no intention of hurting interests of our brother and friendly countries, that is why we ignore ughur muslims, because it hurts our closest ally China, but that doesn't mean we should neglect US completely, US has been our strategic partners from the start, we still have strategic interests in US, this is how world works now, Turkey and Russia are fighting in Syria but also exchanging weapons, Turkey seems to be in conflict with Israel diplomatically, but have economic partnership growing, Turkey is a part of NATO and EU but is at tension with US, France and Greece for its interests, Turkey supports us diplomatically but sells weapons to India, Saudi Arab is our brotherly country, but have economic interests in India, Saudi Arab is at strategic partnership with USA but has far greater economic partnership with China; this is the reality, things which need to be understand, and should be kept in mind before forming opinions, this is an era of interests, powerful military and economic diplomacy.

 

[Indos]

Ummah concept is a flawed concept. Pakistanis have first hand experience of this. Your country took in millions of Afghans using the tag 'My muslim brother' now see what these Afghan refugees are doing.

Even in Malaysia there are many muslim refugees from Myanmar(Rohingya) who are reputed for being notorious. The Malaysian authority is now deporting every Rohingya refugees.

Pakistanis should fight for their own interest. No muslim brother will come to help you, no Ummah logic will work.

Just worry about your Buddish Ummah brotherhood............

You dont need to comment about Muslim issue here.

Muslim brotherhood is still present, do you think why so many Muslim countries blockade Israel ????

Why do you think Indonesia always help Palestinian in UN Security Council and go against US interest ????

Ummah concept is made by our God and promote by our beloved prophet Muhammad. It is indeed a very strong concept.

 

[The Accountant]

A New Muslim Bloc!
My Take on it,

There is an intense discussion going on in media and social media in Pakistan about the need of a new muslim bloc supported by China or a Chinese bloc/anti America bloc (if we include Russia in it), not fairly new but has been renewed and now the hottest topic after the latest tension erupted by SM Qureshi remarks about Saudi Arabia and its role on Kashmir issue, most talk about countries to form or lead a new Muslim bloc are four namely Malaysia, Iran, Qatar and Turkey, so in this brief article i will like to talk about these four countries only and their chances to join a chinese bloc respectively, so let start

1)Malaysia
Malaysia has changed drastically after Sir Mahatir, and not looking the same country, which hosted the KL summit last year, as unfortunately Sir Mahatir a true friend of Pakistan is no longer in the office, and due to a powerful ethnically Indian, Hindu minority, India is far strategically rooted in Malaysian state then Pakistan, which will eventually stop Malaysia from participating in any pro Pakistan/China or anti India bloc, that is why after departure of Sir Mahatir, we did not see any statement on Kashmir from Malaysia, even on the anniversary the black day marking abrogation of article 370 on Kashmir, there was a complete silence from Malaysia,
https://www.wionews.com/india-news/...-transformed-since-mahathirs-departure-318925

2) Iran
Iran is a strategic partner of India and unlike what we are being fed recently that Iran has put India out of Chabahar port, which was fake news generated by some media outlet and has been denied by Iranian officials
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...ct-citing-funding-delays-200715063259623.html
(It is an updated article after Iranian official denial),
https://en.irna.ir/news/83864796/Iran-India-discuss-railways-cooperation
While their official news agency reports that India and Iran is discussing the Railway Cooperation,
https://en.irna.ir/news/83856537/186-containers-carrying-Afghan-goods-reach-Chabahar-port
And while we are living in fake world, Iran has already started this port to transit goods between Afghanistan and India,
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...nctions-rare-cooperation-200620161933575.html
As nothing stops India from investing in Chabahar because it is exempted from US sanction list.
And then there is a big list of terrorists operating against Pakistan being supported by Iran and hiding in Iran, eg: Kulboshan Yadav and Uzair Baloch, so considering these thing and still putting Iran in a strategic bloc will not going to benefit us but eventually it will hurt our interests.

3) Qatar
Qatar has always been neutral and will remain neutral, as no statement on Kashmir has been seen from it,
Qatar has the largest presence of US military in entire region and serve as the Central Command forward HQ for its forces
https://www.centcom.mil/AREA-OF-RESPONSIBILITY/Qatar/
so its strategic ties with US will stop Qatar from joining any Chinese bloc,

4) Turkey
Last but not the least Turkey, India has just finalized 2.3 billion dollar of worth deal with Turkey, to build naval ships, which eventually will be used against us in the future and Indian navy after announcement of CPEC has become the most important wing of the arm forces to undermine Chinese presence in south China sea and eventually sabotaging CPEC,
https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...build-fleet-support-ships/article31893924.ece
so while Turkey is supporting our stance on Kashmir, it is also serving its financial interests by signing a strategic defense deal with India, Turkey is also a part of US lead NATO, responsible for the mess of Terrorism we faced from Afghanistan, which not only targeted our interest by fighting against IEA aka Afghan Taliban but also harbored and made Afghanistan a safe heaven for Terrorists attacking Pakistan, so being a part of NATO will eventually stop Turkey from becoming part of any Chinese bloc, and its current tensions with Russia over Syria makes NATO and US more needed for Turkey then ever before, Turkey is in deep rift with its NATO allies France and Greece also, on Libya and oil exploration in east Mediterranean sea respectively, which is a cause of concern for NATO, as NATO is already under huge pressure to deal with Turkey, so a move to join a Chinese bloc will be the last nail in the coffin for Turkey and not only Turkey will loose EU but will eventually loose US and NATO as well, and China alone cannot provide the support and the assistance these unions and alliances give Turkey strategically, so not only Turkey is in no position of joining any Chinese bloc but it is against Turkish interest as well,
https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-turkey/

Hence to sum it up, a muslim bloc comprising of above mentioned countries is not only impossible but eventually will make things tougher for everyone and surely can not serve our interests, so loosing and sacrificing time tested allies for a new and unrealistic bloc will be a diplomatic suicide for Pakistan,
Lastly an advice to my fellow countrymen that please do not buy every rhetoric thrown at you, do some research and then make an opinion.

First tell me are u talking about a new muslim block or an anti india block? In your post u evaluate every country in its relationship with India.

If u r talking about muslim block then u need to understand why there is a need of a muslim block only then we can evaluate if such a block possible or not.

Muslim block could be formed for various purposes including but not limited to economic cooperation, common development, knowledge sharing and offcourse defence cooperation.

It was never intend to be an anti india block however these countries were always vocal about conditions of muslims be it kashmir, palestine or middle east.

 

[The Accountant]

Very sensible post. Hope the fanboys read it, for once, instead of going into their usual Ready-Fire-Aim routine.

How is it sensible when the post is all about india and pakistan. Muslim block was never about india or for that matter about pakistan as an individual country.

 

[El Sidd]

Not interested

 

[Joe Shearer]

How is it sensible when the post is all about india and pakistan. Muslim block was never about india or for that matter about pakistan as an individual country.

He has a point of view, explaining why there are difficult barriers to creating such a bloc, and has argued his point of view. If you disagree, presumably you can write and explain, instead of focussing on the subject of the post and being displeased with the author.

 

[Buddhistforlife]

Just worry about your Buddish Ummah brotherhood............

You dont need to comment about Muslim issue here.

Muslim brotherhood is still present, do you think why so many Muslim countries blockade Israel ????

Why do you think Indonesia always help Palestinian in UN Security Council and go against US interest ????

Ummah concept is made by our God and promote by our beloved prophet Muhammad. It is indeed a very strong concept.

Those are in paper. Before 15th August UAE also did not recognize Israel on paper now they openly expresses solidarity.

Trade is happening between Israel and numerous muslim nations both directly and indirectly.

 

[L0ne Warri0r]

Only Pakistan will stand for Pakistanis and Kashmir, no one will fight our wars or sacrifice for us, we already have a UNSC veto on our side in shape of China (a real alliance which worth something) These so called Ummah bloc are good for nothing except Turkey bcoz it vote for us everywhere.

we should try to trade with all and create strong National power so we can influence our immediate interests like Kashmir. regional alliances are headache of wanna be super powers not improvised countries like Pakistan, we will side with one who offer us best deal.

There is a difference between, Turkey as state and current Turkish Government, PM Nawaz Sharif had good relations with India, but that did not mean India had suddenly became our friend, Turkey as country as a state always was and in sha ALLAH will be a good friend and ally of Pakistan, but this this diplomatic leverage we got from Turkey was due to Sir Erdogan, just Malaysia, Sir Mahatir had the courage and strength to undermine their economic interests, but not necessarily every other Malaysian Govt will do the same as we are seeing today and as i have clearly mentioned in the artie, that current Malaysian govt did not utter a singke word against India since Sir Mahatir has left the house, so if Sir Erdogan loose the election of 2023, we will be in no man's land, so yes we should progress our partnership with Turkey but should not put all the eggs in one basket, lastly to all who are denying the Ummah concept, the concept is real, is strong deeply rooted, but unfortunately Muslim regimes across the world do not act on it which is why it seems not applicable, as no one is applying it as the key concept in the foreign policy.

 

[L0ne Warri0r]

Those are in paper. Before 15th August UAE also did not recognize Israel on paper now they openly expresses solidarity.

Trade is happening between Israel and numerous muslim nations both directly and indirectly.

the Ummah concept, the concept is real, is strong deeply rooted, but unfortunately Muslim regimes across the world do not act on it which is why it seems not applicable, as no one is applying it as the key concept in the foreign policy.

 

[L0ne Warri0r]

About time we get over this ummah chummah sh!t and look at our own interests.

the Ummah concept, the concept is real, is strong deeply rooted, but unfortunately Muslim regimes across the world do not act on it which is why it seems not applicable, as no one is applying it as the key concept in the foreign policy.

 

[Indos]

Those are in paper. Before 15th August UAE also did not recognize Israel on paper now they openly expresses solidarity.

Trade is happening between Israel and numerous muslim nations both directly and indirectly.

You just mentioned about UAE, how about Indonesian, Malaysia, Brunei, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and others ???? Some do have relationship with Israel, but in majority dont.

Your point is derived by your desire not by fact.

Benjamin Netanyahu takes unexplained ‘two hour detour’ to avoid Indonesian airspace en route to Australia

Israeli prime minister’s plane takes longer route from Singapore to Sydney to completely avoid Muslim country with which Israel has no diplomatic ties


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...r-detour-avoid-australia-flight-a7592696.html

 

[Max]

There is a difference between, Turkey as state and current Turkish Government, PM Nawaz Sharif had good relations with India, but that did not mean India had suddenly became our friend, Turkey as country as a state always was and in sha ALLAH will be a good friend and ally of Pakistan, but this this diplomatic leverage we got from Turkey was due to Sir Erdogan, just Malaysia, Sir Mahatir had the courage and strength to undermine their economic interests, but not necessarily every other Malaysian Govt will do the same as we are seeing today and as i have clearly mentioned in the artie, that current Malaysian govt did not utter a singke word against India since Sir Mahatir has left the house, so if Sir Erdogan loose the election of 2023, we will be in no man's land, so yes we should progress our partnership with Turkey but should not put all the eggs in one basket, lastly to all who are denying the Ummah concept, the concept is real, is strong deeply rooted, but unfortunately Muslim regimes across the world do not act on it which is why it seems not applicable, as no one is applying it as the key concept in the foreign policy.

I agree with much you wrote about Turkey and Malaysia, actually i am saying all this for quite sometime.

As for Ummah, bro i am Muslim, i can't deny this concept, a Muslim is brother of another Muslim and i firmly believe. What i meant to say is unfortunately this is not part of statecraft.