New EADS - Phalcon AWACS an alternative for Indian forces?

[sancho]

I was following the developments of this AWACS for some time, but now there was the final official statement on the Paris Air Show and as it turned out, EADS joint the Israeli IAI for a new AWACS aircraft based on the EADS C295:

Official press release:

Airbus Military and Israel Aerospace Industries join forces on C295 AEW&C Programme



Airbus Military and Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) are combining forces to jointly develop and market a new version of the Airbus Military C295 platform fitted with an Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) system produced by ELTA Systems, a wholly owned IAI subsidiary.
The primary sensor of the AEW&C will be the IAI/ELTA 4th Generation Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Radar with integrated IFF.

A Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) to this effect was signed today at the Le Bourget Airshow by IAI Corp. VP and ELTA President, Mr. Nissim Hadas, and Airbus Military CEO Mr. Domingo Ureña. With this agreement, Airbus Military will expand its mission capability to the Airborne Early Warning & Command sector, while ELTA will be expanding its AEW&C fleet to include a turboprop platform.

The C295 AEW&C has been designed to provide high quality 360 Surveillance, creating in real-time an integrated Air and Maritime Situation Picture and Electronic Order of Battle. The AEW&C Situation Picture is shared with friendly forces via Network Centric data links...

Airbus Military and Israel Aerospace Industries join forces on C295 AEW&C Programme

Imo, it could be offered in the shore based AWACS competition of IN, especially because it offers the optional ISAR MMR, specifically to detect and identify surface targets.
Not to forget that the C295 is rumored as a contender in the MRMR competition as well and the AWACS uses the same version, which increases the commonality:

 

[KEETARP]

Endurance vis-a-vis IL76 , . I still believe Gulf-stream based one is best .

 

[marcos98]

G550 offers better range for IN for shore based operations.

IAF on other hand should stick with A-50s + DRDO awacs.
the follow on phalcon and drdo awacs should have a common platform IMHO .

 

[sancho]

The G550 of course is a nice aircraft, but clearly more costly than this new one, which seems to be focused on cost-effectiveness, because this is (AFAIK) the first turbo prob engined platform ELTA used for their AWACS systems.
More problematic than the range which can be extendend by mid air refuelling could be the low service ceiling, but on the other side, I didn't saw another AWACS aircraft so far that could patrol the air and the ground so effectively with the rotodome and the ISAR MMR. Be it Saab with the Saab 2000, Embraer with the EMB 145, or the Israeli Guldstream system, they all have dedicated MPA aircrafts to patrol the ground, this instead is the first that can do both with a single aircraft and as I meantioned, IN has the requirement for both!

 

[indushek]

The G550 of course is a nice aircraft, but clearly more costly than this new one, which seems to be focused on cost-effectiveness, because this is (AFAIK) the first turbo prob engined platform ELTA used for their AWACS systems.
More problematic than the range which can be extendend by mid air refuelling could be the low service ceiling, but on the other side, I didn't saw another AWACS aircraft so far that could patrol the air and the ground so effectively with the rotodome and the ISAR MMR. Be it Saab with the Saab 2000, Embraer with the EMB 145, or the Israeli Guldstream system, they all have dedicated MPA aircrafts to patrol the ground, this instead is the first that can do both with a single aircraft and as I meantioned, IN has the requirement for both!

For Cost effectiveness aren't we going for the DRDO AWACS?? i mean this would be like throwing a third one in to the ring??

 

[angeldemon_007]

Endurance vis-a-vis IL76 , . I still believe Gulf-stream based one is best .

Gulf-stream is really the best but we also need this new platform. I would prefer 3-3 of both

 

[sancho]

For Cost effectiveness aren't we going for the DRDO AWACS?? i mean this would be like throwing a third one in to the ring??

DRDO AWACS is still under development, I would prefer it too for the IN competition, but it don't offer full 360° coverage, while the E-2D and G550 Phalcon AWACS, that so far was offered to IN has. So if that would be a requirement for IN, the DRDO AWACS on the Embraer platform could not be good enough.
Personally I even hoped for an co-development between EADS and DRDO, because they are already involved in some systems of the DRDO AWACS now. Would loved to see a DRDO AWACS based on this platform (no real version, just added the radome):

 

[sancho]

Gulf-stream is really the best but we also need this new platform. I would prefer 3-3 of both

Endurance is not only limited by range, but by the human factor as well! Just like an nuclear sub has not unlimited endurance because it don't need fuel, but they still need food for the crew.
For AWACS aircrafts with mid air refuelling capability, range can be extended as well, but smaller aicrafts like the G550 has only limited internal space. They normally have only 4 to 6 operators and a small rest area, while the A50 has up to 12 operators and a fully fledged rest area with beds... That means with a 2nd crew and mid air refuelling, they could extend the endurance to twice the time a smaller aircraft could, let alone the higher performance with more operators, longer detection range, more sensors...

 

[nomi007]

Pakistani AWACS ZDK-03 that we brought from china is same as EADS C295 AWACS

 

[sancho]

Pakistani AWACS ZDK-03 that we brought from china is same as EADS C295 AWACS

The platform is bigger and more comparable to a C130, while the C295 is below that, more comparable to the C27J.

 

[indushek]

DRDO AWACS is still under development, I would prefer it too for the IN competition, but it don't offer full 360° coverage, while the E-2D and G550 Phalcon AWACS, that so far was offered to IN has. So if that would be a requirement for IN, the DRDO AWACS on the Embraer platform could not be good enough.
Personally I even hoped for an co-development between EADS and DRDO, because they are already involved in some systems of the DRDO AWACS now. Would loved to see a DRDO AWACS based on this platform (no real version, just added the radome):

How long do u think it will take us to come up with a similar system?? I also don't understand why our government doesn't promote more and more JV's which could help us a lot in long run.

 

[JayAtl]

How long do u think it will take us to come up with a similar system?? I also don't understand why our government doesn't promote more and more JV's which could help us a lot in long run.

because Jv's are not that interested ( fewer apart) when the investment share is so low...and thats why India is being pushed to allow higher threshold of FDI ...

 

[sancho]

How long do u think it will take us to come up with a similar system?? I also don't understand why our government doesn't promote more and more JV's which could help us a lot in long run.

A similar radar system with 360° coverage is already under development, the problem is the platform! India is still far away from fielding a capable aircraft that could be used for this purpose and the only one I see is the MTA, although it would be smaller than the A50, or the A400M.

 

[indushek]

A similar radar system with 360° coverage is already under development, the problem is the platform! India is still far away from fielding a capable aircraft that could be used for this purpose and the only one I see is the MTA, although it would be smaller than the A50, or the A400M.

Yeah but even the MTA hasn't yet started!! don't know when our defence industry would mature to a respectable level. I think we should concentrate on this 360 degree coverage and other system related developments completely so that by the time platform is ready we will not loose time, however the integration could be a problem, i mean i am not a technical expert so i don't know.

 

[indushek]

because Jv's are not that interested ( fewer apart) when the investment share is so low...and thats why India is being pushed to allow higher threshold of FDI ...

Common we are spending respectable amounts now, i don't think money is the problem here. I think only the Russians and Israelis are interested in working with us. The rest of the west is limiting to consultancy level only.