New Delhi will only discuss Pakistan-controlled Kashmir, says Indian envoy

[Sharpshooter12]

There is no use bringing in Junagadh and Hyderabad.

Exactly, like there was no use of bringing up that Pakistan should not have intervened in Kashmir in aid of the freedom fighters against dogras.

You have to realize the fact that India is a much bigger country than that of yours with different set of goals. Whatever India does with Jungadh or Hyderabad or Bhutan or Honolulu is simply none of your business. You be happy with the land in which you live. Comprende ?

Oh yes Sir, I forgot you guys a superpower now, please forgive my ignorance

There is a Punjabi proverb for you guys, it is quite rude so I will rephrase it to make it appropriate for the forum, Punjabis will get it any ways, Baybay kaul Khaon nu roti nahi, Putar pooray pind da veri.

Most of the World's Poorest People Live in India

 

[Kal Muah]

The delusions of India's 'people' and their inability to understand that the UNSC resolutions do not require a unilateral withdrawal on the part of Pakistani forces without a pre-determined agreement between India, Pakistan and the UN, is something Indians and the Indian government have to address and fix.

Just because the Indian government has fed the Indian 'people' lies and distortions for so many decades doesn't mean that Pakistan should adjust its position and statements on the Kashmir dispute to accommodate those lies and distortions.

Sir, we know, and we have read about the UN resolution regarding Kashmir. You might consider us delusional, but we can both agree which nation is in constant denial, which nations spreads false propaganda, which nation spreads false history, and what reputation our both nation have in front of the world. And sir, unlike Islamic Republic of Pakistan our government doesnot have the power to alter or ban or censor parts of Internet, we can all read the UN resolution independently and with a literacy rate of 74% in a 1.2 billion Indians, understand what the UN said.

 

[dadeechi]

and Islamabad will only discuss Indian-occupied Kashmir

There is nothing new in this Pakistan's position.

ISLAMABAD: India's representative to Pakistan said on Monday that his country was only prepared to discuss the part of Kashmir controlled by Islamabad in upcoming peace talks, presenting a potential stumbling block days after the dialogue was announced.

High commissioner T.C.A. Raghavan made the remarks about the disputed territory during a lecture in the Pakistani capital, after a breakthrough visit by India's foreign minister at which the resumption of ministerial talks was announced.

According to a joint statement, the two sides will talk about peace and security as well as territorial disputes including Kashmir. Each country occupies part of the territory but claims it in full.

Asked where the room for negotiation lay over the Himalayan territory, Raghavan said it was India which first petitioned the United Nations to intervene when the-then princely state of Jammu and Kashmir was invaded by Pakistani forces in 1947.

“The first application was moved by India and it was on the grounds that a part of the state, which had acceded to India, is now under the illegal occupation of the Pakistan army.

“So when you say what is it that India is going to discuss or what is it discussing, it is really, if you ask most Indians, and what is our position — it is the part of that state which is still under the control of Pakistan."

The remarks could create a diplomatic wrinkle for the two countries as they seek to go back to the negotiation table to undertake broad-spectrum talks for the first time since the election of prime ministers Narendra Modi and Nawaz Sharif.

Badar Alam, editor of Pakistan's political Herald magazine, said: “I think it is a step back,” adding that Kashmir was viewed internationally as a disputed territory.

He added that given the fragile state of the dialogue, officials on both sides needed to tread “very cautiously and very carefully” to avoid a backlash.

New Delhi suspended all talks after gunmen attacked the Indian city of Mumbai in November 2008, killing 166 people.

The countries agreed to resume the peace process in 2011 but tensions have spiked over the past two years, with cross-border shelling over the disputed border in Kashmir claiming dozens of lives since 2014.

A brief meeting between Sharif and his Indian counterpart Narendra Modi on the sidelines of the UN climate change summit in Paris on November 30, followed by talks between the two countries' national security advisers in Bangkok, appeared to have broken the ice.

New Delhi will only discuss Pakistan-controlled Kashmir, says Indian envoy - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

The Pakistani side does not get to decide what constitutes potentially inflammatory remarks in India while insisting that any Indian reiteration of its position is somehow excessive. The Hurriyat meetings have caused two sets of talks to collapse. Regardless of what you think are symbolic & "representing the indisputable fact" of something does not mean that the Indian side has to see it in that manner. I don't see anything inflammatory in what the Indian HC said, you see nothing of that sort in what the Pakistani HC does, that's fine. We move from there. What cannot be accepted is the idea that Pakistan alone gets to decide what is inflammatory and what is not.

India needs the adopt and push One-India policy more vigorously

The ‘One-India Policy’ Needs More Thought | The Diplomat

 

[Bang Galore]

Pakistan doesn't get to decide, but any rational and logical analysis of what the respective statements and actions actually represent absolutely supports the argument I made about the actions and statements of the Pakistani HC and Indian ambassador not being equivalent.

We were talking of inflammatory statements, I made my point.

Again, just because the Indian people and government have the equivalent of 'Muslims hurt sentiments over prophet Mohammed cartoons' is not Pakistan's problem. We are not responsible for India's teenage mental angst and over the top emotional reactions over a non-issue.

The same then holds for the Indian position as reiterated by the High Commissioner.

I broke down the content and impact of the actions of the Pakistani HC and the Indian Ambassador's comments for you - I'd appreciate a more specific rebuttal to that analysis/breakdown if you actually disagree.

It simply does not matter. Provoking public sentiments gets you into this cycle. The Indian High Commissioner did what Pakistani officials have always done, reiterate the official position. Neither the Pakistan HC or the Indian HC will be sitting to discuss these matters, that will be done at a much higher pay grade. You are free to take the Indian HC's statement as just a formal reiteration of the Indian position before the talks happen. Surely any movement, if it happens, will be during the talks, not at the beginning.

 

[ranjeet]

'If wishes were ancient Hindu inter-galactic spaceships

these Ulema-Ikram will just massacre all Ahmadis (and maybe all the Shia, just to be safe)

First line of your post on this thread is a jibe at Hindus (Pakistan too have some Hindus left) but you are preaching another Pakistani about how Ulema Ikram is spreading religious bigotry against minority in Pakistan? Great.

On Topic: I thought it was understood what India wants to talk about, why Pakistanis look surprised?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Sir, we know, and we have read about the UN resolution regarding Kashmir. You might consider us delusional, but we can both agree which nation is in constant denial, which nations spreads false propaganda, which nation spreads false history, and what reputation our both nation have in front of the world. And sir, unlike Islamic Republic of Pakistan our government doesnot have the power to alter or ban or censor parts of Internet, we can all read the UN resolution independently and with a literacy rate of 74% in a 1.2 billion Indians, understand what the UN said.

I don't believe you do understand what the UNSC Resolutions require of India and Pakistan - please read through the discussion on the link below on the issue:
Pakistan Using Heavy Shells - a First Since Ceasefire Agreement: Sources | Page 10

 

[nForce]

t absolutely is Pakistan's business when Indians try to use the argument that 'Kashmir is none of Pakistan's business' and that 'Pakistan invaded Kashmir', since India did the same in Junagadh, Munavadh and Hyderabad.

Why do I see so many Pakistanis around with comprehension problem ? Is it genetic ? No can't be genetic, far too wide. Does that have anything to with nationality ?
Junagadh or Hyd or something else is not something a typical Pakistani needs to ponder about. Kashmir is not the same case as Pakistan occupies a part of Kashmir.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

We were talking of inflammatory statements, I made my point.

The same then holds for the Indian position as reiterated by the High Commissioner.

It simply does not matter. Provoking public sentiments gets you into this cycle. The Indian High Commissioner did what Pakistani officials have always done, reiterate the official position. Neither the Pakistan HC or the Indian HC will be sitting to discuss these matters, that will be done at a much higher pay grade. You are free to take the Indian HC's statement as just a formal reiteration of the Indian position before the talks happen. Surely any movement, if it happens, will be during the talks, not at the beginning.

Again, I very clearly broke down what the statements and actions of the Pakistani HC and the Indian ambassador represent - you haven't offered a rebuttal and merely restated that 'you find offence at XYZ'. Without any explanation of WHY the Pakistani HC's actions of meeting the Hurriyat are an issue, India's complaints are unjustified - what's next, India complaining about, and taking offense over, the Pakistan HC celebrating Pakistan's Independence day?

Junagadh or Hyd or something else is not something a typical Pakistani needs to ponder about. Kashmir is not the same case as Pakistan occupies a part of Kashmir.

India occupies Junagadh and Munavadh - Princely States that officially and publicly acceded to Pakistan, and whose accession Pakistan accepted.

First line of your post on this thread is a jibe at Hindus (Pakistan too have some Hindus left) but you are preaching another Pakistani about how Ulema Ikram is spreading religious bigotry against minority in Pakistan? Great.

Actually it was a jibe at the extremist government you have in power in India - I was merely using a statement attributed to Modi. I didn't think most rational Hindus believed in ancient Hindu's flying around the galaxies in Space-ships and therefore would understand the context in which the comment was made.

 

[nForce]

Oh yes Sir, I forgot you guys a superpower now, please forgive my ignorance

You are ignorant indeed. Historically, when exactly any Indian delegation entertained any kinds of talks with the Pakistani counterpart on Jungadh ?

There is a Punjabi proverb for you guys, it is quite rude so I will rephrase it to make it appropriate for the forum, Punjabis will get it any ways, Baybay kaul Khaon nu roti nahi, Putar pooray pind da veri.

See if cracking jokes help you get Kashmir.

Most of the World's Poorest People Live in India

That has got something to do with the Kashmir ? If India is a poor country, then what stops you from getting what you want ? Actually that is poorer. BTW with 45% Pakistani below the $ 3.10 line, you don't quite draw a rosy picture either. With your debts nearing 140B, and your revenues less enough to even pay for the interests, let's see how it goes.

India occupies Junagadh and Munavadh - Princely States that officially and publicly acceded to Pakistan, and whose accession Pakistan accepted.

Tell me one thing, if Jinnah's entire pitch was Hindus and Muslims can't live together, then why was he so eager to accept the Nawab's( who himself fled to Karachi ) Instrument of accession of a Hindu majority state?

 

[Bang Galore]

Again, I very clearly broke down what the statements and actions of the Pakistani HC and the Indian ambassador represent - you haven't offered a rebuttal and merely restated that 'you find offence at XYZ'. Without any explanation of WHY the Pakistani HC's actions of meeting the Hurriyat are an issue, India's complaints are unjustified - what's next, India complaining about, and taking offense over, the Pakistan HC celebrating Pakistan's Independence day?

I see nothing in the Indian HC's position as being particularly inflammatory either. He was stating the official position of the GoI. The rest of your post is you insisting that you alone have the right to decide what is inflammatory & what you think is justifiable. I disagree. Little point in rehashing the same.

 

[magudi]

ISLAMABAD: India's representative to Pakistan said on Monday that his country was only prepared to discuss the part of Kashmir controlled by Islamabad in upcoming peace talks, presenting a potential stumbling block days after the dialogue was announced.

High commissioner T.C.A. Raghavan made the remarks about the disputed territory during a lecture in the Pakistani capital, after a breakthrough visit by India's foreign minister at which the resumption of ministerial talks was announced.

According to a joint statement, the two sides will talk about peace and security as well as territorial disputes including Kashmir. Each country occupies part of the territory but claims it in full.

Asked where the room for negotiation lay over the Himalayan territory, Raghavan said it was India which first petitioned the United Nations to intervene when the-then princely state of Jammu and Kashmir was invaded by Pakistani forces in 1947.

“The first application was moved by India and it was on the grounds that a part of the state, which had acceded to India, is now under the illegal occupation of the Pakistan army.

“So when you say what is it that India is going to discuss or what is it discussing, it is really, if you ask most Indians, and what is our position — it is the part of that state which is still under the control of Pakistan."

The remarks could create a diplomatic wrinkle for the two countries as they seek to go back to the negotiation table to undertake broad-spectrum talks for the first time since the election of prime ministers Narendra Modi and Nawaz Sharif.

Badar Alam, editor of Pakistan's political Herald magazine, said: “I think it is a step back,” adding that Kashmir was viewed internationally as a disputed territory.

He added that given the fragile state of the dialogue, officials on both sides needed to tread “very cautiously and very carefully” to avoid a backlash.

New Delhi suspended all talks after gunmen attacked the Indian city of Mumbai in November 2008, killing 166 people.

The countries agreed to resume the peace process in 2011 but tensions have spiked over the past two years, with cross-border shelling over the disputed border in Kashmir claiming dozens of lives since 2014.

A brief meeting between Sharif and his Indian counterpart Narendra Modi on the sidelines of the UN climate change summit in Paris on November 30, followed by talks between the two countries' national security advisers in Bangkok, appeared to have broken the ice.

New Delhi will only discuss Pakistan-controlled Kashmir, says Indian envoy - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

 

[deckingraj]

If India really follow that path you will be falling right in our trap, Azad Kashmir or IOK, all we want is Kashmir issue to be highlighted.

If you think so...Indian govt. strategy is not about highlighting Kashmir/not highlighting kashmir....We want the issue to be bilateral and that's about it...the reality is LOC is going to be the border whenever we solve this issue however this is not what Pakistan want....so by talking about P-O-K is in my opinion would help us move in that direction....

 

[ranjeet]

@magudi
Bro thread already running.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

kutte ki dum bole to kabhi US jaakar Rona. kabhi UN me chilla kar Rona.......... yahaan tak har country me jaakar Rona...

bhai itna hone ke baad bhi ek baat samjh nahi aaye after 50 years ki.…...... Kashmir ko pana na mumkin hai... development, economy n power is everything.

lagta hai mein nay poonchal per paon rakh diya hai.... hahahaha

 

[Indika]

You are ignorant indeed. Historically, when exactly any Indian delegation entertained any kinds of talks with the Pakistani counterpart on Jungadh ?

Agreed, pakistan has lot of grouse. They want whole of india but fortunately for them there are useful idiots only in kashmir. Only good reason why pakistan has not raised junadgh,hyderabad ...etc is they have no chance whatsoever with those regions. When partition took place , muslim league turned it into a wild west style land grab and creating jungle raj like direct action day. When they lost the game they turned into cry babies. reminds me of aussies complaining about sledging after losing.