New Chinese stealth fighter heightens dilemma for Indian Navy

[Ping]

New chinese junks i see. I'll believe they are lethal when they open up the specs. Until then, they are akin to what MiG-25 was before it got revealed.

 

[trident2010]

don't live in your old world

Chinese innovation takes country to top of world patent lists

11, Nov 2012

According to a recently-updated report by Thomson Reuters into innovation in Asia, by the end of 2011 China had overtaken every other country in the world in the number of invention patents it files each year. This landmark event occurred a year earlier than Thomson Reuters had previously predicted in its 2008 report into Chinese patent filings.

‘Patents are very tangible measures of innovation,’ said Bob Stembridge, customer relations manager of Thomson Reuters and author of the company’s report into patenting in China. ‘The country is transforming from "made in China" to "designed in China".

Chinese innovation takes country to top of patent lists - PATENTS - Research Information

I assume you know how the patents works. Having a patent with a company doesn't always mean that they invented it. As a matter of fact many company buys the patent from the research groups across the world. I myself worked on a project with one of the biggest Chinese company who came to UK to give their R&D work to different universities. I was that time working for my PhD and worked for providing high speed internet and mobile comm in Chinese high speed trains. What the Chinese company wanted from us is to work on the technology, patent it and then sell to them which we did. I think this company has most no. of patents in the world but mostly bought through hard cash from all over the world. So don't go only with the number of patents as they can be bought and it doesn't always reflect the R&D culture of the country.

 

[trident2010]

good viewpoint!Our government should hire you as a lobbyist to tell the US and some other countries that China is in the age of cold steel！If you are successful in persuading them to reduce military spending to a very low level，we would turn you into Bill Gates.

I was specifically commenting regarding India vis a vis China. As far as US is concern they are generations ahead in quality and much more superior in quantity compared to China. In addition, how US tackles China is none of my business.

 

[帅的一匹]

You know why UK empire is fading a way from world power centre? Cause people have rotten ideology just like you, live in the world of denial. Never tell me you live in the world of no lie and full freedom, just like the way BBC present Jimmy Saville.

 

[帅的一匹]

I assume you know how the patents works. Having a patent with a company doesn't always mean that they invented it. As a matter of fact many company buys the patent from the research groups across the world. I myself worked on a project with one of the biggest Chinese company who came to UK to give their R&D work to different universities. I was that time working for my PhD and worked for providing high speed internet and mobile comm in Chinese high speed trains. What the Chinese company wanted from us is to work on the technology, patent it and then sell to them which we did. I think this company has most no. of patents in the world but mostly bought through hard cash from all over the world. So don't go only with the number of patents as they can be bought and it doesn't always reflect the R&D culture of the country.

We hire you and pay your salary, try to present defiant in front of your boss. Guess what? you got fired ASAP Cause lame engineers just like you is spreading all over the world. We own the patent, not you.

 

[sancho]

inducting Mig29k will give IN experience in operating a naval fighter not building a naval fighter.

Exactly, because IN don't build any fighters at all, DRDO, ADA and HAL does and they get the same experience as I said via a tech demo program too.

AMCA can be navalised based on the experience of Naval LCA.

No it can't, because AMCA will be a totally different fighter, with a different design, that most likely will be operated from carriers with catapults, not sky-jumps. Navalising a fighter for catapult launch is way more complicated and should have a focus from the design stage and not only later. That's why I want IN to safe the money for developing and buying a limited capable 4th gen fighter and invest it instead into a 5th gen carrier fighter development, with IAF (if they need a new type at all), using a version that was based on the carrier version and not the other way around. F18 and Rafales are the examples here, not Mig 29 to Mig 29K!

LCA is more than a capable fighter in light category.

Operated from shore bases, with higher numbers, additional hi end fighters, tankers and capable AWACS YES! But operated from a STOBAR carrier, with a lot of limitations simply by design itself, with low numbers, less hi level fighters, very basic tanker and AWACS support it N-LCA won't!

Yeah sure, Russians are idiots that will pass their knowledge in designing stealth frames to you.

In other words you mean we are idiots to pay up to 30 billions for a fighter without getting credible ToT and so on? I'm sorry, I don't think we are idiots and the simple fact that we went for this co-development should tell you, that we can't do it alone so far. When you than look at how limited our contribution is and how many difficulties we face developing LCA alone, it should be even clearer!

 

[Speeder 2]

I assume you know how the patents works. Having a patent with a company doesn't always mean that they invented it. As a matter of fact many company buys the patent from the research groups across the world. I myself worked on a project with one of the biggest Chinese company who came to UK to give their R&D work to different universities. I was that time working for my PhD and worked for providing high speed internet and mobile comm in Chinese high speed trains. What the Chinese company wanted from us is to work on the technology, patent it and then sell to them which we did. I think this company has most no. of patents in the world but mostly bought through hard cash from all over the world. So don't go only with the number of patents as they can be bought and it doesn't always reflect the R&D culture of the country.

Though it's true that not every single patent of a company is by default developed by its own, your fairytale above on Huawei is supported by several obvious lies followed by making a false accusation….sigh, typical Indian!

Tell ya what, I happened to be on the verge of registering several patents precisely in this field (telecom) a decade ago thus know relatively well on the issue.

Your lie 1: you didn't make the inventions/patents, because you couldn't and can't.

Huawei is in telecom hardware biz where it, together several other major giants, has monopolised the next gen hardware tech /patents already. Your fancy “high speed internet for high speed train”is indeed very LOW tech according to the standard and sheer tech sophistication of Huawei , hence it's almost impossible a "PhD stud" nobody like you somehow "worked out " a new patent on high speed internet on the hardware level of such a low tech nature(i.e. high speed internet on high speed train) that Huawei , and other giants, hadn't known it already.

Your lie 2: you didn’t apply for patents, because you couldn't and can’t.

A step back, even if yours were half -truth, then it must be a telecom application. Unlucky for your lie due to your lack of basic patent knowledge, this kind of telecom apps are almost un-patentable either inside the EU or on a worldwide basis, as I personally found out almost a decade ago for my “inventions” in the office of a famous lawyer who specialises on the EU telecom patents.

Your lie 3: how you sold it to Huawei when you didn’t even have it yourself?...let alone asking you how long it took you to get the patent, and how much you told it,etc. in order to entertain me further …

Your fairytale is borderline stupid for anyone related to this field. Furthermore, giants/conglomerates don’t “buy” “your” patents, since they usually pay for everything if “you were working with them on a project” as per common knowledge, particularly whern you aclaimed that you were just an PhD stud at a time. So even it had been a miraclely patentable patent, it would had belonged to the company instead of you.

With these 3 lies, you falsely accuse Huawei “bought most of it patents” just like it bought yours…

just tell me 1 thing, why Indians like you lie so much? naturally born with it?

 

[kkacer]

I assume you know how the patents works. Having a patent with a company doesn't always mean that they invented it. As a matter of fact many company buys the patent from the research groups across the world. I myself worked on a project with one of the biggest Chinese company who came to UK to give their R&D work to different universities. I was that time working for my PhD and worked for providing high speed internet and mobile comm in Chinese high speed trains. What the Chinese company wanted from us is to work on the technology, patent it and then sell to them which we did. I think this company has most no. of patents in the world but mostly bought through hard cash from all over the world. So don't go only with the number of patents as they can be bought and it doesn't always reflect the R&D culture of the country.

did u read the article or still dreaming?


In addition, according to the Thomson Reuters report, while the majority of WIPO filings pass on to the Chinese patent office to be processed as Chinese national patent applications, significant numbers pass through to the US, European, Australian, Japanese and Korean patent offices to be processed as national patents in these regions also.

Chinese innovation takes country to top of patent lists - PATENTS - Research Information

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

No it can't, because AMCA will be a totally different fighter, with a different design, that most likely will be operated from carriers with catapults, not sky-jumps. Navalising a fighter for catapult launch is way more complicated and should have a focus from the design stage and not only later. That's why I want IN to safe the money for developing and buying a limited capable 4th gen fighter and invest it instead into a 5th gen carrier fighter development, with IAF (if they need a new type at all), using a version that was based on the carrier version and not the other way around. F18 and Rafales are the examples here, not Mig 29 to Mig 29K!

You and I dont know what IN has in mind for a naval fighter, so no point in speculating that likely AMCA will be a catapault. Since, We have a Sky jump IAC1, it is better that we first focus on developing a 4th gen skyjump fighter that will give us expertise in designing a naval fighter. Later, we can move up to catapult launch part, if IN does decide to have that in future IACs. The naval airframe, particularly the undercarriage design expertise learned during the NAVAL LCA fighter development can easily be applied to AMCA to devlop skyjump Naval AMCA and to a 5th gen catapult fighter. For catapault fighter, the only other thing that will require effort will be strengthening the airframe. Rafale M gained 500kg extra wait when navalised and maintains 95% commonality with the Af variant, so it wont be that hard to modify AMCA into a catapult launch naval fighter if reuqired.

In other words you mean we are idiots to pay up to 30 billions for a fighter without getting credible ToT and so on? I'm sorry, I don't think we are idiots and the simple fact that we went for this co-development should tell you, that we can't do it alone so far. When you than look at how limited our contribution is and how many difficulties we face developing LCA alone, it should be even clearer!

You think russia or for that matter any country will pass you the knowledge of how to design a stealth and supercruise airframe, a high performance thrust vector engine, AESA radar etc? Did HAL was involved in the design process of Pakfa?? how different will be fgfa from PAKFA?
It will be a similar story as with SU30, i.e., Russia airframe with slight modification from HAL + Russian engines + Russian AESA radar and HAL built mission computers and avionics, and after 5-10 years, you will be reading a story titling India in talks with Russia to upgrade FGFA combat jet fleet.

That is why we have The AMCA program, which is all about developing 5th gen tech inhouse and studies are ready underway for the same.

 

[Viper0011.]

Fanboys have no limit

This is a FLIR shot from a Rafale in the picture. No offense but the crappy FLIR works around 35 KM on Rafale. Raptor is NOT designed to EVER come close to an enemy fighter unless it's a flight demonstration or a 'friendly' exercise to make others feel better about themselves.

Raptor can literally eat half a squadron of Rafales alive and go back for refueling before the remainder can start to guess where the missiles came from. I don't think the rest half the squadron would want to be around to guess after they see their Rafales dropping like flies off the sky!!!
Anyway, fan boy crap has no limit. Let's continue with the rest of the conversation. Rafale and F-22 scenario means pipe dreams for a few and they should quit doing drugs!

 

[trident2010]

Though it's true that not every single patent of a company is by default developed by its own, your fairytale above on Huawei is supported by several obvious lies followed by making a false accusation….sigh, typical Indian!

Tell ya what, I happened to be on the verge of registering several patents precisely in this field (telecom) a decade ago thus know relatively well on the issue.

Your lie 1: you didn't make the inventions/patents, because you couldn't and can't.

Huawei is in telecom hardware biz where it, together several other major giants, has monopolised the next gen hardware tech /patents already. Your fancy “high speed internet for high speed train”is indeed very LOW tech according to the standard and sheer tech sophistication of Huawei , hence it's almost impossible a "PhD stud" nobody like you somehow "worked out " a new patent on high speed internet on the hardware level of such a low tech nature(i.e. high speed internet on high speed train) that Huawei , and other giants, hadn't known it already.

Your lie 2: you didn’t apply for patents, because you couldn't and can’t.

A step back, even if yours were half -truth, then it must be a telecom application. Unlucky for your lie due to your lack of basic patent knowledge, this kind of telecom apps are almost un-patentable either inside the EU or on a worldwide basis, as I personally found out almost a decade ago for my “inventions” in the office of a famous lawyer who specialises on the EU telecom patents.

Your lie 3: how you sold it to Huawei when you didn’t even have it yourself?...let alone asking you how long it took you to get the patent, and how much you told it,etc. in order to entertain me further …

Your fairytale is borderline stupid for anyone related to this field. Furthermore, giants/conglomerates don’t “buy” “your” patents, since they usually pay for everything if “you were working with them on a project” as per common knowledge, particularly whern you aclaimed that you were just an PhD stud at a time. So even it had been a miraclely patentable patent, it would had belonged to the company instead of you.

With these 3 lies, you falsely accuse Huawei “bought most of it patents” just like it bought yours…

just tell me 1 thing, why Indians like you lie so much? naturally born with it?

Well its funny how you did rofl on something you don't know a$$ about it. There was a large group of delegation from the company you mentioned and its R&D head was from Peking University. They gave the high speed data and mobile project for the train running at 300 km/hr and they gave similar projects to not one but 4-5 universities in UK. And when I said I did the job "alone". Stupid Chinese IQ may be? I was in a group of 15 people including phd students 3 professors and few research associates and since you don't know about patents I tell you that YES you can patent the technologies which can be used for high speed train applications. It involves protocols, new signal processing algorithms and antennas etc. Since I got the extra money apart from my scholarship from this project so I don't need your approval for it. Everyone knows this is how Chinese companies get their patents. Rest the copying work they patent from their country's photocopy shop aka Chinese patent office. So live with the fact that Chinese still have a lot of catch up to with west and yes sorry EU patent office didn't accept your work as Chinese science is valid inside great wall of China only.

 

[trinity]

Why is this such news to our ears? The biggest issue I see is with our politicans and burecrats. They don;t have a clue what they are doing with regard to defence as I have pointed time and time again. When the order to purchase more Mig 29s was passed, there was outcry by various members in society and even on this forum why we wouldn be buying more shitty planes when the tech has already been surpassed and being built by our competitors. We have this attitude of wanting to be the best but don;t even allow the most important building blocks to be placed. The moment we signed the contract, the Mig 29 was an easy meal to the CHinese fighters. This is retarded to raised a cry and stink now. Where the fuk were the news media then? Where was the media outcry when we allowed General Kapoor to expand the fleet of obselete T90's, the inferior model not the Russian military version. The fact that China get more help and assistance than India from Russia speaks volumes. How come we cant demand the same way the Chinese do? Simple...key members in our govt are corrupt to the core. Why else do you think we hav enot gone after the endles black money or even publicize the names of scuh folks? For whose good it it, ours or theirs? You don;t need to delude yourself, rant on, or even try to come with a counter arguement. It so obvious that we have idiots running office. The more I see Modi, the more I want him even though I am a minority.

 

[Tshering22]

Check the thread in India section, title like India buy this, India buy that. There finally comes stuff you can't buy, a real 5 gen fighter., not som money ripoff walk through.

Until the specs are out, all you can do is gasbag about it.

Don't worry it is not your fault; it is a Communist trait to hype even the smallest of achievements, let alone a big feat of aerospace self-reliance like this.

Your sense of urgency comes at the helm of trying to take US head-on for a conflict that no one wants; all this to prove how valid your regime is.

What a waste of time and money.

J20 is far superior than any fighter IAF will induct in the next 20 years:

We'll see about that, won't we?

 

[IND151]

J31 will have 2 versions , air and navy.

Source and link please

 

[Tshering22]

Why is this such news to our ears? The biggest issue I see is with our politicans and burecrats. They don;t have a clue what they are doing with regard to defence as I have pointed time and time again. When the order to purchase more Mig 29s was passed, there was outcry by various members in society and even on this forum why we wouldn be buying more shitty planes when the tech has already been surpassed and being built by our competitors.

We have this attitude of wanting to be the best but don;t even allow the most important building blocks to be placed. The moment we signed the contract, the Mig 29 was an easy meal to the CHinese fighters.

Are you kidding me? MiG-29Ks may not be a match for the raptors and the latest JSFs but they're more than enough in defensive role against PLAAF who has nothing more than copies of the original jets we use. Just because they like to hype specs beyond its actual capabilities doesn't mean they're speaking the truth.

I don't know whether you know this; but communists have a history of downplaying failures and over-hyping achievements more than what they actually are in stature. So you need to think from it from that perspective.

IAF or IN are not going to invade China. Their role will remain defensive and as long as we remain a parliamentary democracy, you can very well rule out the invasion of even tiny islands like Maldives, let alone the Dragon.

MiG-29Ks are good enough for defense of sea. Why? because we have something they can never have: a floating natural aircraft carrier called the Andamans and Nicobar islands.

Only thing is we should not make the blunder of buying more 4.5th gen jets after the 45 MiG-29Ks. Let PAK FA or AMCA be the future inductions for the IN.

This is retarded to raised a cry and stink now. Where the fuk were the news media then? Where was the media outcry when we allowed General Kapoor to expand the fleet of obselete T90's, the inferior model not the Russian military version.

Because media is itself involved in massive corruption scandals along with politicians. The coming of light of Burkha Dutt's case was a clear example of how dirty our politics and so-called free media has gone to.

Heavens knows how many more journalists like her have been sold out to the enemies of our country; to ensure that the public remains in the dark and in the stupid world of Bollywood and Cricket while the nation is being looted.

We need to understand that when we're a democracy where people's power is the law of the land, then it is important that we don't get ruled by the people we elect and rather ensure that the people we elect are WORTHY enough to rule our otherwise wonderful country.

The fact that China get more help and assistance than India from Russia speaks volumes. How come we cant demand the same way the Chinese do? Simple...key members in our govt are corrupt to the core.

National defense and increasing India's strategic power was never the priority of any Congress government right from Indian independence. If you see, other than individual attempts like Sardar Patel and to some extent, Indira Gandhi... no one else ever wanted India to rise to the global front as a power. From Nehru to Sonia, everyone only tried to inhibit and limit India's power and potential to emerge as a regional power player.

It is all after all, a dirty, evil gene that has been pervading the ruling class of our country. The Gandhi-Nehru gene. From Nehru's sell out to China that nearly cost India us (Sikkim) had the Army not been there, to today's biggest defense scandals and all of it involving UPA politicians is the biggest evidence of the class and type of rulers we have been electing through some media playing the bullshyt minority card and fooling and dividing the Indian public.

In USA, the people have so much more stake in defense; what do civilians and families of defense personnel hve in India? Nothing. There is the difference in national priorities.

Our government's priority is to ensure the votes of some or other community by votebank appeasement rather than development of India into a powerful country while China and others' priority is to climb to the top of the world politics. First it was the Hindus in 40s to 60s with the Gandhian liers chanting "raghupati raghav" mantra as a "symbol of ahimsa"; later it was the sikh community being fooled and cheated by Congress in 70s and 80s while simultaneously 60s involved in cheating us Buddhists.

Today it is the Muslims and the Christians who are being cheated and divided by the same colonial residue of a government. They are immune from public outcry because they sit atop laws that are designed to protect itself rather than us citizens. Just like the British Raj was.

All you have to do is to scan through these laws and see they're just a copy-paste of all colonial laws with minor tweaks here and there that ensure political immunity to all politicians rather than us common Indians.

Why else do you think we hav enot gone after the endles black money or even publicize the names of scuh folks? For whose good it it, ours or theirs?

Because the last residue of colonial power was handed the governance in our country so as to keep India bogged down. Recently after Anna Hazare episode, finally we Indians realized about how foolish a fast-unto-death-protest is against oppressive regime like Congress.

It failed miserably which led to Indian youth realizing that spinelessness aka Congress version of ahimsa is a fail and a lie from the beginning when Gandhian propagandists claimed it as a panacea against oppression.

It never worked in our history and it will never work. There's a reason why people resort to wars since the beginning of mankind. And it is about time we sleeping Indians wake up.

You don;t need to delude yourself, rant on, or even try to come with a counter arguement. It so obvious that we have idiots running office.

That is an understatement.

We have traitors, swines and vermin ruling the country that are Indians only in their skin color and looks while they work for foreign interests against Indians and against India. Our country feeds half the planet in terms of agricultural products but our people cannot eat like Americans can.

Bush infact said that if Indians eat like Americans, the whole world will starve; and he said this in the middle of WTO summit.

Beat that.

If a simple industry like agriculture is so anti-national by this regime, do you really think that this government is serious about national defense and expansion of our country's power and territory?

Hardly.

When you have poisonous germs sitting in the body's bloodstream, naturally the body will fall ill.

That is exactly what is happening to our country.

We are trying to think that the bandage of "democracy and votes" is going to solve the cancer called Congress's political system that is running this country.

And rather than choosing to operate the problem out; we are fearing about the anesthesia and the pain the operation will cause, forgetting that this operation will be to remove the cancerous growth that is bleeding our country.

The more I see Modi, the more I want him even though I am a minority.

Modi's image is smacked by the same media that supports the ruling government in all corruption cases which is a clear case of buy-outs. Just take a look at the articles that come out from top channels like NDTV and TOI print; it is clearly in support of one party over the other which is not the characteristic of a true media.

Modi has done more for Muslims than what any so-called secularist could ever dream of doing. They do nothing other than tarnishing his image because him coming to power is the end of all corruption at the hands of these nation looters we call "secularist politicians and liberals". That is why there's such a rabid campaign against him so desperately.

BTW even I am a minority too... and a fanatic supporter of Modi. . He's the only one who can save the country's defense.


But that's a different thing. Let us not go off-topic here.