New Charge Sheet Links Tablighi Jamaat & Deoband to Delhi Riots

[Vasudhaika]

This explanation is not needed except for the utterly ignorant; since you, @Vasudhaika, are clearly not one of those, the question arises why you choose to take this stance.

Because, I don't think the ruling party needs CAA to implement NRC.

Everything. The CAA was the enabling act to divide Muslims and Christians from the 'Indic' faiths. It allowed for quick acceptance for the desirable set, without saying a word about the others, the Muslims and the Christians.

You're misinformed peddayana. Christians are also part of CAA, logic being 'religious minorities' of these three countries.

What CAA does is allow the government to absorb the 'desirable' segment of those found without supporting documentation, while leaving the others out in the cold.

This I agree, while CAA automatically absorbs new non muslims from neighbouring muslim majority nations into Indian society, it hasn't got anything to do with existing citizens (muslim or non-muslim). The rationale for this as quoted by govt was, 'division is based on muslims wanting a separate country'.

 

[Cliftonite]

Joe Babu, we all have our own individual battles to fight concerning this crazy mad situation in India.

My battles are going to be very different from your battles, and likewise for someone else. There is no way I can find common ground with these BJP-RSS scumbags again. I am as anarchist as they come.

There is no room for compromise or negotiation with the Sanghis as far as I am concerned. Let me tell you, our methods can be a bit too violent and dangerous for your bhadralok taste.

I don't care anymore if they think I am Pakistani. It doesn't make any difference.

I guess it is better that even you keep a certain distance from me. Wish you all the best.

Bhadralok eh? I'm learning something new everyday. Is it the Bengali version of bourgeoisie? Tres interessant. @Joe Shearer babu, it's a pity Bangladesh broke away, I really would have liked to learn more about Bong culture.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Joe Babu, we all have our own individual battles to fight concerning this crazy mad situation in India.

My battles are going to be very different from your battles, and likewise for someone else. There is no way I can find common ground with these BJP-RSS scumbags again. I am as anarchist as they come.

There is no room for compromise or negotiation with the Sanghis as far as I am concerned. Let me tell you, our methods can be a bit too violent and dangerous for your bhadralok taste.

I don't care anymore if they think I am Pakistani. It doesn't make any difference.

I guess it is better that even you keep a certain distance from me. Wish you all the best.

LOL.

Now you sound, not fanboy Pakistani, but sleep deprived Parsi. Your self-certification as anarchist forces the question: do you even know what anarchist means? As far as 'our methods' being a bit too violent and dangerous for my bhadralok taste, that is as dangerous as Nilu Pule and his pesticide-free doppelganger's strident but totally ineffective threats.

I have no quarrel with you, but am questioning your Churchillian turns of phrase.

Beyond these objections to your habit of backing into the limelight with grandiloquent claims of being able to turn the situation around as you wish, I have no problems.

Please feel free to continue. Watching two wholly insubstantial shadows in simultaneous action is totally fascinating.

Because, I don't think the ruling party needs CAA to implement NRC.

Now, that won't do.

The ruling party doesn't need CAA to implement the NRC; it needs the CAA to absorb all 'Indics' who fail the NRC.

You're misinformed peddayana. Christians are also part of CAA, logic being 'religious minorities' of these three countries.

Perhaps I am misinformed. I am writing this without reference to the wording of the amendment, but my recollection is that certain religious affiliations were explicitly mentioned, and Christians and Muslims were NOT among them. I would be happy to be corrected if you can quote the wording.

This I agree, while CAA automatically absorbs new non muslims from neighbouring muslim majority nations into Indian society, it hasn't got anything to do with existing citizens (muslim or non-muslim). The rationale for this as quoted by govt was, 'division is based on muslims wanting a separate country'.

Please. That has nothing to do with the subterfuges of the government. It has everything to do with genuine Muslim and Christian citizens of India disenfranchised due to a failure of documentation; existing citizens are converted into non-citizens. It has nothing to do with Muslims wanting a separate country and living there.

Bhadralok eh? I'm learning something new everyday. Is it the Bengali version of bourgeoisie? Tres interessant. @Joe Shearer babu, it's a pity Bangladesh broke away, I really would have liked to learn more about Bong culture.

Pretentious Bengalis divide themselves into Bhadralok, the polite people, and Chhotolok, the vulgus mobile. It is pretentious to the ultimate.

If you want to learn about Bengali culture, you need only to travel to London, as an alternative to Calcutta or to Dhaka.

 

[Naofumi]

division is based on muslims wanting a separate country

You can say that openly - Muslims don't belong to India.

Perhaps I am misinformed. I am writing this without reference to the wording of the amendment, but my recollection is that certain religious affiliations were explicitly mentioned, and Christians and Muslims were NOT among them. I would be happy to be corrected if you can quote the wording.

Not included in Amit Shah's initial speeches about it but were later included into the draft.

 

[xeuss]

Not included in Amit Shah's initial speeches about it but were later included into the draft.

Speculation is that to ward off criticism from the West.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Please do not make yourself ridiculous in public. I have forgotten more about how states work than you will ever know.

Do you really have to cover your frustration by talk of burnol? Do you not understand how childish that reads?

Childish? Dont honk non sense here.

Its India as a state which is culpable of current situation in India. Stop hiding behind very convenient excuse of so called devolution of power which on paper might be there but in practicality is a hogwash. Like many nation states, power lies within deep state. There was a reason for that vedio for reference, you simply didnt get the clues or didnt want to acknowledge. Not my fault.

 

[Vasudhaika]

In other words, the wishes of Telangana citizens should have gone by the board, and the depredations of the Coastal and Seema Telugus should have been allowed to continue with their depredations.

No, not really. State bifurcation was on cards, every one came to terms. I myself felt relieved when PC announced it. But the way they did it, in haphazard manner is the problem. If you think all Coastal and Seema Telugus are leeches, we don't have anything more to discuss on this topic. I don't need a lesson on socio economic status of different Telugus from different regions from you, especially if you're painting 40million people with one brush stroke.

At the end of it all, it boils down to nothing having been done that was unconstitutional, so what is it? The grievance of the Coastal and Seema Telugus that they were not allowed to continue to be carpetbaggers?

Absolutely nothing unconstitutional, just the grievance of the other Telugus (not rich people, they were, are and will be rich despite reddy,naidu,rao ruling). And may I ask, what's unconstitutional about CAA? Sure there might be some legal constitutional nuances I might not fully understand but in that case it can be challenged in court (rightfully they did too).

 

[Naofumi]

Speculation is that to ward off criticism from the West.

What speculation, it's an open truth. BJP hates Christians too, Amit Shah was responsible for anti-conversion law in Gujarat and that made him RSS's trusted man who was/is close to Modi too. He's known for his ideological commitment for RSS's cause much more than Modi - who try to maintain an independent persona.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Childish? Dont honk non sense here.

Its India as a state which is culpable of current situation in India. Stop hiding behind very convenient excuse of so called devolution of power which on paper might be there but in practicality is a hogwash. Like many nation states, power lies within deep state. There was a reason for that vedio for reference, you simply didnt get the clues or didnt want to acknowledge. Not my fault.

<sigh!> Even more childish. There is no deep state that can tell West Bengal, for instance, or Kerala, or Telangana to toe the centre's line. I have seen the video earlier, and it is crap.

I am really saddened that you oppose your thoroughly shallow understanding of the situation to the reality, even when it is presented to you with the utmost politeness. What more can I do?

 

[Naofumi]

You can do whatever with Bangladeshis. They never should have joined us in 1947.

Bhadralok eh? I'm learning something new everyday. Is it the Bengali version of bourgeoisie? Tres interessant. @Joe Shearer babu, it's a pity Bangladesh broke away, I really would have liked to learn more about Bong culture.

Get your thoughts consistent dude.

 

[Joe Shearer]

No, not really. State bifurcation was on cards, every one came to terms. I myself felt relieved when PC announced it. But the way they did it, in haphazard manner is the problem. If you think all Coastal and Seema Telugus are leeches, we don't have anything more to discuss on this topic. I don't need a lesson on socio economic status of different Telugus from different regions from you, especially if you're painting 40million people with one brush stroke.

LOLOL.

You mean it's OK when you do it, but not when I do?

All right.

Absolutely nothing unconstitutional, just the grievance of the other Telugus (not rich people, they were, are and will be rich despite reddy,naidu,rao ruling). And may I ask, what's unconstitutional about CAA? Sure there might be some legal constitutional nuances I might not fully understand but in that case it can be challenged in court (rightfully they did too).

Shall we agree not to confuse issues? Whataboutery is no longer in vogue.

 

[Vasudhaika]

Perhaps I am misinformed. I am writing this without reference to the wording of the amendment, but my recollection is that certain religious affiliations were explicitly mentioned, and Christians and Muslims were NOT among them. I would be happy to be corrected if you can quote the wording.

http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2019/214646.pdf

"Provided that any person belonging to Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Parsi or Christian community from Afghanistan, Bangladesh or Pakistan, who entered into India on or before the 31st day of December, 2014 and who has been exempted by the Central Government by or under clause (c) of sub-section (2) of section 3 of the Passport (Entry into India) Act, 1920 or from the application of the provisions of the Foreigners Act, 1946 or any rule or order made thereunder, shall not be treated as illegal migrant for the purposes of this Act;"

You can say that openly - Muslims don't belong to India.

Wrong man, you're part of it, you have the same rights as me. Just that India decided to allow non-muslims from Pak, BD and Afg is all.

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

You want NRC? Do it but without CAA, weed out all illegals. India is meant for Indians na?

And you don't want NRC? Try to explain something here. Even my own Muslim friends cannot explain other than saying words of equality etc.
The main contention of Muslims is that it inserts the criteria of religion. The opposition says since non Muslims are discriminated on the basis of religion they have to provide citizenship to only them and only for those who had migrated before 2014. Means it specifically targets Assam.
Now there are two sets of illegals in Assam. Muslims and non Muslim minorities majorly Hindus. One set of people told that Hindus and Muslims are like oil and water, cannot live with brethens and demanded a separate state based on religion. Fine. Bloodily given. Now BD went was very underdeveloped till the last decade and half. How is the Indian state supposed to give citizenship to people who do not believe in the idea of India or believe in their own religion supremacy. BD is again a Islamic country by law though it's more secular for a Muslim majority country.

Now help me explain how are Muslims and Hindus 'equal' in this scenario? Even if all are sent back who are more likely to get govt and local public support and which community will be disadvantaged?
Now I also agree that this protest started not when CAA was passed in parliament.AS after 2 days I guess that NRC will be implemented all over India without giving any inputs and triggered fear mechanism which is understandable and protested in a democratic way. NRC if implemented nationwide is quite tough with many communities not having anything documentary to prove their rights cutting across religion and castes.
I have my own grouse in which Lankan Tamils living in TN, Kerala, AP, Odisha haven't been provided citizenship for last 35+ years and that's a separate issue.

 

[Joe Shearer]

http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2019/214646.pdf

"Provided that any person belonging to Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Parsi or Christian community from Afghanistan, Bangladesh or Pakistan, who entered into India on or before the 31st day of December, 2014 and who has been exempted by the Central Government by or under clause (c) of sub-section (2) of section 3 of the Passport (Entry into India) Act, 1920 or from the application of the provisions of the Foreigners Act, 1946 or any rule or order made thereunder, shall not be treated as illegal migrant for the purposes of this Act;"

Good enough for me. So only Muslims are excluded. Couldn't make it plainer.

Wrong man, you're part of it, you have the same rights as me. Just that India decided to allow non-muslims from Pak, BD and Afg is all.

I'm afraid not. It's the two-pronged nature of the trap that everyone saw through right on presentation. The CAA makes Sanghi sense only when juxtaposed with the NRC.

Fair enough; things are clear enough now, about who represents what.

 

[Vasudhaika]

You mean it's OK when you do it, but not when I do?

when did I generalise any group as a group with depredations?